Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 November 1

= November 1 =

AoM hero names
Playing Age of Mythology again ( because I can't play Age of Empires IV even if I wanted to; my computer's too old ). Been replaying the campaign stories, and now I'm very curious in the possible origins or etymologies of some of the hero names, and maybe why the Ensemble Studios crew chose them, specifically the ones conceived for the game (since Reginleif, Setna, Ajax, Chiron, Brokkr and Eitri, etc. are already derived from their respective mythos). So the names I'm interested in are "Amanra", "Theris", "Gargarensis" and his two servants "Kamos" and "Kemsyt", "Skult", "Niordsir", "Folstag", "Zethos", "Zeno", "Melagius", "Misenus", "Krios", "Kastor", and of course the main man himself, "Arkantos". I'll list what I do know, and my thoughts on what I don't:
 * Amanra: My instant thought was a modernised feminine form of Amun-Ra. If I really want to pull some straws, aman is also apparently the Berber and Nubian word for "water" (e.g. Aman dawū, the Nubian name for the River Nile)
 * Theris: This one is simple. Most likely comes from θήρ (thḗr) or θηρῐ́ον (thēríon), "wild, savage animal". Makes sense since he's a jackal priest.
 * Gargarensis: As a kid, I always thought his name came from something meaning "to gargle". γαργαρίζω (gargarízo) seems to support this at least on a skin-deep level, as do the Romance languages via Latin gargarisma. Alternatively, it could be derived from Gargara, or perhaps amusingly, gargalesis, "to tickle or irritate".
 * Kamos: I got nothing sensible for this one. Directly searching for "kamos" gave me either a Hunnic word for "barley", or an Arabic word for "dictionary". That Arabic word (قَامُوس (qāmūs)) seems to be a closer bet thematically, as it also means "ocean", and this character is a pirate.
 * Kemsyt: I had an idea that a reconstructed Egyptian form of this name would be something like kmst, so "black-something", I guess.
 * Skult: This old man is an avatar of Loki in disguise, so the past-participle form of Norwegian skule ("to scowl, frown, or look at with contempt") makes some sense. There is also the Danish and Norwegian skjule ("to hide, conceal") and the English skulk.
 * Niordsir: Very certain this one is mostly made up. "Niord", as far as I can tell, is just another reading of the ocean Vanir god Njördr.
 * Folstag: This one confused me a bit because the only "king of the frost giants" figures I was aware of were Thrymr and Utgarda-Loki. So since this giant does not have a basis in any existing myth, I figure this etymology attempt would end up rather silly too. fyls ("foal") + one of the many meanings of tag would suffice enough I guess.
 * Zethos: This guy was surprisingly easy. He apparently shares his name with one of the supposed founders of Thebes.
 * Zeno: Just like Zethos, this guy is a minor character who's only name-dropped once. I am familiar with Zeno being a very common Greek name, and an in-game cheat code is named after Zeno's paradox. What I wasn't familiar with though, is the fact that it is a variant of another name, Zenon...
 * Melagius: I'm not sure if this name has a Greek basis. I found Italian mela ("apple") or melagrana ("pomegranate") to make a little more sense than anything else I've found. melãgis is a Lithuanian word and melangiós is Catalan. There's also the Roman proper nomen Melanius.
 * Krios: The Atlantean theocrat is named after a Titan. Very straightforward, considering what happens to him.
 * Kastor: If he's not named after the Dioscuri twin, then I got nothing.
 * Arkantos: I always find myself going back to the word "arcane" for his name. From Latin arcānus, I found the Greek cognate ᾰ̓ρκέω (arkéō)("to aid, defend, hold out, or be strong enough"), and in turn, ἀρκετός (arketós)("to be sufficient")
 * Misenus/Mineus: This is an interesting case because he is a character who isn't actually in the game proper. He was originally the main hero during Age of Mythology's development until he was replaced by Arkantos. While he is known as "Misenus" (character of the Aeneid) in-game, the map editor calls him "Mineus" or "Minaeus". A note from excerpt 8 of this chapter of Plutarch's Moralia says that "Minaeus" was one of several Greek readings of the pharaoh Menes. I've got no idea where "Mineus" comes from.

There is also one type of trainable unit added to the Norse in Tale of the Dragon, called "bogsveigir". The game claims that the word literally means "bow-swayer" in Old Norse, in the sense of an archer. Browsing through Wiktionary gives me bogmaður from Icelandic (literally bogi ("bow") + maður ("male", "man")) and Norwegian bueskytter/bogeskyttar, both presumably coming from the same roots. So I'm not really sure where -veigir comes from. I did find Faerose sveiggja and Norwegian svaie under sway though.

Any revisions/suggestions would be appreciated. Oh and I hope everyone had a safe Halloween/All Saints Day. --72.234.12.37 (talk) 09:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As for the last question, the word bogsveigir would have to be split with -sveigir (not -veigir), from Old Norse sveigja, meaning to bend, sway or more specifically "sveigja boga": to bend (draw) the bow. --T*U (talk) 11:45, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That makes total sense, thank you! Does this word have any relation to Gungnir, by any chance? Apparently its etymology is not very well known, to the point where it doesn't have its own Wiktionary article, at least compared to Mjöllnir. --72.234.12.37 (talk) 03:00, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No relation in an etymological sense, at least. I have not found any reliable etymology of Gungnir, it is just presented as the name of the spear. From Gylfaginning: Ríðr fyrstr Óðinn með gullhjálminn ok fagra brynju ok geir sinn, er Gungnir heitir. “Odin [Wotan] rides in front with the golden helmet and beautiful chain mail and his spear, which is called Gungnir.“ --T*U (talk) 10:23, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * "Gungnir" means "the swaying one", according to the article. Swedish has the similar verb "gunga", meaning "to swing, to rock". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is that neither the verb "gungre" (called 'an obscure Danish verb' – also in Norwegian, but equally obscure), nor the Swedish verb "gunga" (and "gynge" in Danish and Norwegian) have any etymology stretching back to Old Norse, so that explanation is at best dubious, at worst pure fantasy. --T*U (talk) 18:36, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The source cited is apparentlyOrchard, Andy (1997). Dictionary of Norse Myth and Legend. Cassell. ISBN 0-304-34520-2but I don't know how to get access to it. Looking up the words "gunga" and "gynge" in Scandinavian dictionaries yield various results, one theory being that it's derived from some onomatopoeia or interjection, one theory being that it's somehow derived from the Germanic root *gang- (walk, gait). Although Elof Hellquist explicitly states that the *gang- theory is incorrect. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:02, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can't access Orchard either. However, as you say, no dictionary in any of the Scandinavian languages seem to make a connection back to Old Norse, a language with a very well attested vocabulary, so I do not see how 'Gungnir' can be connected. --T*U (talk) 20:26, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * There is a copy of Orchard in Z-Library, and it has an entry on "Gungnir", but I don't see an etymology of the name. It apparently is used in the poem Hávamál and in the poetry of Bragi Boddason. There are similar runes on spears according to the poem Sigrdrífumál.- gadfium 21:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For Folstag, Marvel Comics has Volstagg, inspired by the Shakespeare character Falstaff. I'm not sure if all of these would be based on attested myths, however, many could be in-jokes. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:55, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Just looking up similar roots and tweaking the name somewhat, "Folistaug" would mean "Foal's rope" and "Folistagl" "Foal's tail hair", I think, which sorta makes sense, but might still not be credible as a name. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:23, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I see now that there was an actual Gargarean tribe in Greek mythology. I also thought about Gargantua. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That is a very interesting find, it matches Gargarensis's name almost perfectly! I never thought the Amazons would need a direct counterpart tribe, considering most of human society in antiquity was male-dominated anyway.
 * And yeah, you raise a good thought in that many of these names could've started or prevailed as inside jokes among the Ensemble Studios crew, much like the in-game cheat codes or the multiplayer taunts. While it is true that I'm mostly doing this for fun and curiosity, the only reason I'm maintaining a persistent attitude about the whole "based on attested myths" part is that, while yes, the game was made primarily for entertainment value (considering there are three Abrahamic units and the Egyptians were forced to borrow several creatures from Mesopotamian myths, as well as the Greek phoenix, because most of their creatures are basic representations of other deites such as a winged cobra for Wadjet, a giant scarab for Khepri, and a "petsuchos" for Sobek), it nevertheless retains its other half that keeps a grounded basis in established myths, legends, and known cultural conventions, even if the Atlanteans are just Romans/Etruscans with Greek Titans superimposed onto them. Hell, imagine my surprise when I found out that scorpion men were an actual mythical creature, not just a thing from a cheesy action film! --72.234.12.37 (talk) 03:00, 2 November 2021 (UTC)