Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 September 7

= September 7 =

What does "several" mean??
All dictionaries I've seen say "several" means more than 2 but less than many. However, in practice, "several" often means a number that is sometimes more than 2 but less than many, but can also be exactly 2. Which definition was intended originally?? Georgia guy (talk) 20:24, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I would never say "several" to mean two, except in a phrase like "joint and several liability" or "the several states", where it's not really talking about how many there are but about the fact that they are being considered separately. --Trovatore (talk) 20:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * several (adj.) early 15c., "existing apart," from Anglo-French several, from Old French seperalis "separate"... Meaning "various, diverse, different" is attested from c. 1500; that of "more than one" is from 1530s, originally in legal use.  Alansplodge (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It's even older. The OED Online gives the earliest sense as "Having a position, existence, or status apart; separate, distinct" and gives usage examples as far back as 1422 when James Yonge wrote: "So oweste thow, Alexander, to haue v messagers and v consaillours, and euery of tham shall be seuerall". Clearly the last part means "every one of them shall be separate".  By 1509 the word had been extended to mean "a number of different; various, divers, sundry", and this was later "merged into" the modern meaning where it normally implies more than 2. --184.144.99.72 (talk) 22:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Wasn't 1422 in the early 15th century? Alansplodge (talk) 22:51, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes; the early 15th century is 1400-1449; the late 15th century is 1450-1499. (There is no zeroth century; when we name a century we add one.) Georgia guy (talk) 23:24, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that; I paid attention to the dates "c. 1500" and "1950s" (!) "1530s" and missed the one that used a different notation. --184.144.99.72 (talk) 05:26, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * If I were being flippant, several is four to eight. But I think the crux of several is that it's a number that the speaker can't or isn't willing to quantify. It's used more to mean 'entirely too many for my taste,' less often positive eg "I got several nice hugs and kisses." Its vagueness makes it very effective weasel word fodder: "Why are you so mad at me for shaving your head while you were asleep, when you have been mean to me SEVERAL times?" The original meaning is not important in terms of how you should use it today, but if you go back farther than above it meant, kind of, 'prepare apart.' Temerarius (talk) 22:37, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * It's used widely on Wikipedia in sentences like "As well as his novels, he wrote several plays". Sometimes that fits the small number of plays he wrote (5, say), but sometimes it turns out he wrote dozens of them. I suppose it would not be strictly untrue to say "The universe contains several stars", but that sort of massively fails to convey the sense of the numbers involved. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:44, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Just to clear this up, we're talking about "several" meaning a number that can be equal to 2. Spike 'em reverted an edit of mine just before I started this post; the edit relates to using "several" when it's usually 2. Georgia guy (talk) 23:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It appears you mean This revert. Spike'em is 100% correct, and you are completely wrong.  Your edit changed the header to "two", which is a precise number, and most of the examples given are not of groups of exactly 2.  -- Jayron 32 12:05, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * User:Jayron32, but some of them have exactly two. This means that "several" isn't necessarily more than 2. Georgia guy (talk) 12:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * "Several" is not a word that contains the level of precision you are ascribing to it. Regardless, "two" does, and you were clearly wrong for using it when elements of the set did not themselves contain exactly 2. "Several" is not a word that is functionally distinct from the word "some" in this context.  It does not represent any specific number.    "Two" DOES represent a specific number. -- Jayron 32 13:13, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I would suggest changing "several people" to "more than one person", which seems to better fit the content. --Trovatore (talk) 17:14, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You mean, "several" can be exactly 2?? Then why do dictionaries define it as more than 2 but less than many?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:16, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The section whose heading you changed clearly covered situations where more than 2 people were sometimes included, so "two" seems more restrictive and less accurate than "several". The first 2 examples are pages that cover more than 2 people. Spike &#39;em (talk) 05:59, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Asking if "several" can be used to mean exactly "two" invites the answer "it would probably not be interpeted by the listener or reader that way"; especially as there are words reserved specifically for that very meaning ("two" and "couple" being the most common). Your assertion that it can mean exactly 2 invites a request for some references showing that in use. Bazza (talk) 09:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * While "just two" might technically qualify as "several", it normally means "not a lot, but more than two." If it was known to be exactly two, the speaker would likely say so - unless they were trying to exaggerate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:23, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The header would be better phrased as "multiple" or "two or more". 71.175.88.163 (talk) 12:46, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I cannot think of a circumstance where a fluent English speaker would use "several" to describe two of anything, unless they were deliberately exaggerating or trying to deceive. Even using it for three of something is borderline, in my opinion. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  01:09, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I would say "a couple" for two or thereabouts, "in a couple of days" for example. Alansplodge (talk) 22:11, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It can imply that though not one, the actual number is not important: "I've heard that song several times". Doug butler (talk) 22:37, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I think if I claimed to have heard a song several times, and it were then proved to me that I had heard it exactly twice, I would have to admit that my claim had been mistaken. --Trovatore (talk) 16:12, 10 September 2021 (UTC)