Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 December 8

= December 8 =

"on the next page", in one word. Possible?
"Behind" could have been a good solution, if both pages had been on the same sheet, but what if "the next page" is on another sheet?

147.236.144.145 (talk) 17:48, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * wikt:overleaf for the other side of the sheet, while for the next sheet "opposite" comes to mind, mine at least. --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "opposite"? Can this single word replace the four words "on the next page" (as "overleaf" can)? 147.236.144.145 (talk) 18:16, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "Facing" is usually used, as in "On the facing page". See here.  -- Jayron 32 18:08, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * As opposed to "behind" and "overleaf" (if both pages had been on the same sheet), the single word "facing" cannot replace the four words "on the next page". 147.236.144.145 (talk) 18:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, then maybe there isn't one. Just because you can think of a concept doesn't mean a single English word exists to describe a concept.  -- Jayron 32 18:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * As far as the term "overleaf" (or "behind") for the next page on the same sheet is concerned, I only want to be sure that there's no analogous term for the next page on another sheet. 147.236.144.145 (talk) 18:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I may be wrong and I'm not going to check (because dinner), but the expression "see the figure opposite" does not sound unfamiliar. --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Neither does "facing":, etc.  "See the diagram facing" also has usage: .  But I got reprimanded for suggesting it.  -- Jayron 32 18:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't reprimand, and you are always welcome. My point is, that "overleaf" and "behind" are good solutions if and only if the next page is on the same sheet, while "opposite" and "facing" are good solutions if and only if the next page is on another sheet. However, none of these solutions can replace the four words "on the next page" if I don't know whether the next page is on the same sheet or on another sheet: If I use "overleaf" or "behind" I'll be wrong if the next page is on another sheet, and if I use "opposite" or "facing" I'll be wrong if the next page is on the same sheet.
 * Actually, I'm rather desperate now, because I don't know if the next page is on the same sheet or on another sheet, and I can use one word only... 147.236.144.145 (talk) 19:16, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Is this a crossword puzzle? What is the clue, verbatim?  How many letters is it?  What letters do you already have?  -- Jayron 32 19:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No it's not a crossword puzzle. I have to provide a source/reference. I've mentioned page 211, and now I have to mention the figure on page 212. I could write "on the next page" (or "on p. 212"), but I can't use those words, for reasons of savings, so I wonder if there's one word for "on the next page". 147.236.144.145 (talk) 19:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * So if you had no space constraint you might write something like, "The text on page 211 paints a jolly picture, but the second table on the next page tells a whole nother story." But to save space you seek to replace the underlined part by something of the form " the second epomenoselid table ", in which "epomenoselid" has to be replaced by an existing adjective meaning "on the next page". Is that the correct interpretation? --Lambiam 21:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Either "the second epomenoselid table", or "the second table epomenoselid". 147.236.144.145 (talk) 23:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I doubt there is a one-word term. --Lambiam 09:14, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * While I still doubt if the word ipomenoselid should be stressed, on its first syllable ['i:poʊmənəsəlɪd], or on its second syllable [i:'poʊmənəsəlɪd], or on its third syllable [i:poʊ'menəsəlɪd], or on its fourth syllable [i:poʊmə'noʊsəlɪd], or on its fifth syllable [i:poʊmənə'si:lɪd], or on its sixth syllable [i:poʊmənoʊsə'lɪd]. I also doubt if it really means infuriating, or rebelling, or simply bleeding out. Anyway, admittedly,  it's a marvelous word, and I wonder if any other language (besides English) has any analogous word with so many theoretical options of meaning and pronunciation. 147.236.144.145 (talk) 10:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The typeset width of "111%" is less than that of "111%"; "111%" takes up even considerably less space. Is the limiting factor the word count? --Lambiam 17:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * But the long word "epomenoselid" is theoretical. I thought that one word would probably be shorter than "on p. 212", but if you find two words or any combination of even more words that means "on the next page" and is shorter than "on p. 212", then I will be fine with it. 147.236.152.145 (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Try "following"? We lack context on why you're so desperate about this. --Wrongfilter (talk) 19:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily the following one. Actually the figure "on the next page" (i.e. on p. 212) follows a lot of irrelevant figures on the previous page (i.e. on page 211) that follow the first figure I have already given a reference being that page (i.e. p. 211). 147.236.144.145 (talk) 23:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Definitely not possible to do this with one word if there are intervening images. Just number or name the images, but even then it will require more than one word. Meters (talk) 08:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Anyways, please notice that it could be possible if I knew whether the next page is on the same sheet or on another sheet. 147.236.144.145 (talk) 09:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * How about simple "below"? It is vague, yes, but it points the reader to look up underneath. No such user (talk) 09:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "Below" can also mean "on the next-next page", or "below on the current page", and likewise. 147.236.144.145 (talk) 10:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If "overleaf" is acceptable if it's on the back side of the current sheet, and "opposite" is acceptable when it's on the other page currently visible, consider writing a macro that evaluates to "overleaf" on odd pages and to "opposite" on even pages. Still not perfect, as the macro has to be evaluated before the line and page breaking algorithms can run, but most of the time it should give the right result. Unfortunately, macros aren't very portable among different typesetting software. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If the text is reset from a non-paginated source using a page breaking algorithm, there is no guarantee the figure will be on the next page. --Lambiam 17:34, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Meanings of worldly
A contronym (auto-antonym) is a word whose meanings make it opposite of itself. The word worldly strikes me as fitting that definition, as it could imply "mundane, ordinary" on one hand and "smart, sophisticated" on the other. But I've never seen it in lists online, such as the one in Wiktionary. Can it really qualify based on its meanings and usage? --Theurgist (talk) 18:34, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Merriam-Webster does not have clearly opposing definitions. One has it meaning the opposite of "spiritual", and the other has it meaning "knowledgeable about life".  Those are fairly orthogonal, and not really opposites.  -- Jayron 32 19:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Where have you ever seen "worldly" used as a synonym for "mundane, ordinary"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:13, 9 December 2022 (UTC)


 * So it can't mean that? --Theurgist (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * What leads you to believe it does? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:51, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The first meaning listed in the OED for "worldly" is "Of or belonging to the world of human existence (as distinguished from the next or other world) world; relating to or connected with human life on earth; earthly, mundane", so I think it's reasonable to say not only that "worldly" can be used as a synonym for "mundane", but that other people have noticed it being used in that way. DuncanHill (talk) 07:56, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the mistake here is assuming that in sense 1 the OED uses the word mundane in all its senses. It is only using the word in the narrow sense “Of or belonging to the world of human existence (as distinguished from the next or other world) world; relating to or connected with human life on earth”, and not in the extended sense “ordinary; tedious”. This is evident if one looks at the quotations under that sense. Thus, worldly isn’t a contranym. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * By the way, we have a whole Wikipedia article on the Arabic word for "worldly": Dunya... AnonMoos (talk) 22:09, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe it can be, but have you seen it used that way? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:50, 10 December 2022 (UTC)