Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 July 11

= July 11 =

Turkish almost-homographs with i and ı
I am looking for pairs of Turkish words that are written in the same way, apart from one is written with ı and the other with i. Anyone know examples, please? --KnightMove (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * For example ılık v ilik or kıl v kil. Another way of putting it is finding minimal pairs with /ɯ/ and /i/. --Theurgist (talk) 10:57, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Various forms of or terms derived from or related to the verbs sikmek and sıkmak, such as sikici — sıkıcı, sik – sık, siki – sıkı and many more. Other pairs: bakir – bakır, diş – dış, manti – mantı, sakin – sakın, sinir – sınır, sinirli – sınırlı, sinirsiz – sınırsız. --Lambiam 16:57, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The linguist's term for what you seek is minimal pairs. —Tamfang (talk) 01:39, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Were the Simpsons ever dubbed in Commonwealth English?
Then Marge and Homer would've said "where did you get that lorry lorry?" "it fell off a lorry lorry lorry". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I doubt it; we Britons understand perfectly well what a truck is and I believe that "truck" is preferred over "lorry" in Australasia. Alansplodge (talk) 11:50, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Redubbing or rewriting non-UK varieties seem very rare overall, in my impression. And the audience of Simpsons would be considered adult enough to understand general American English. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:32, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Dubbing an American programme in to Commonwealth English is generally only done with programmes aimed at very young children. This is to appease racist parents who refuse to let their kids speak with the “wrong” accent in normal public discourse. Any attempt to do this with the Simpsons will attract mass ridicule and cause the perpetrator to be laughed out of the studio. But you are welcome to try, if you think you have a good crack at it. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * And a funny children's comic magazine would be a "comic comic comic"... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 00:19, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Using this question for a slightly related topic: Is the sameye-circle vs the semmy-circle in this classic short video an AmE vs. BrE - thing? --KnightMove (talk) 12:22, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * In British English, it's always "semmy", or . Bazza (talk) 12:26, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The Wiktionary page wikt:semi- gives pronunciations /sɛmi/, /sɛmaɪ/. Both speakers in the video are using American English, where either pronunciation is possible. There are other prefixes that behave similarly, like wikt:anti- and wikt:multi-. They are more likely to end with /aɪ/ when they stand alone as a word (like wikt:semi for semi-trailer) or are emphasized. --Amble (talk) 17:27, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * It sounds like something the show's producers might do as a joke - to "translate" the show into British English. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Around 2009 one of those late night shows pretended to show a reporter live in England and it was obvious it wasn't cause Big Ben is about 74 degrees east of me (74°=4:56) plus the extra latitude's worth about a half hour near the solstice so the sky should be blue. They asked about the National Health Service and he said something like "you know when you [very long response that vaguely sounds like he caught an STD but it's too British or fake British slang to understand anything], well it covers that." Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:33, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Right. That's what they would call an "establishing shot", like if they were in Paris the Eiffel Tower would be in the background. In the TV series "Police Squad" and in the "Naked Gun" movies, they would sometimes be driving in the "Little Italy" neighborhood in New York, with stock footage of the Roman Colosseum in the background. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:02, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Is it still an establishing shot when it looks like they're filming from the other side of the Thames the whole time and you can see moving car lights? But it's really greenscreen or bluescreen of course. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:17, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * BTW, the word "truck" is acceptable in British English for a heavy vehicle. In Second World War British Army nomenclature, lighter vehicles were designated as trucks, for instance the Morris CS8 was officially a "Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, GS, Morris Commercial CS8". Heavier vehicles were designated as lorries, there was a cut-off weight between the two designations which I can't find at the moment. In the Northern English dialect, heavy vehicles are called "waggons", which we Southerners find rather amusing. Alansplodge (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * , according to the War Department Technical Manual, Volume 30, Issue 410, (an American publication intended as "a simple guide for the U.S. soldier cooperating with the British") "In the British Army a distinction is made between trucks and lorries, "truck" being used for any load-carrying vehicle of 1 long ton or less, and "lorry" for a load-carrying vehicle of 30-cwt or more (see par. 161a). In addition the term "van" is used for a truck with a fixed top, and "tractor" for a lorry employed to tow or pull anything. Thus all artillery prime movers are designated as tractors". Paragraph 161 notes the differences between British and U.S. weights and measures. DuncanHill (talk) 11:47, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. One ton doesn't sound very much, I think my little Toyota Yaris weighs more, but there you go. Alansplodge (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It means a truck of that physical size was rated for a ton of cargo when this system was invented in the I'm guessing 1920s or before. The best 1 ton trucks today are rated for almost 4 tons in the cargo box and the vehicle itself weighs a few tons unladen. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, that makes more sense than kerb weight. Thanks Sagittarian. Alansplodge (talk) 10:55, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Truck_classification has more info. I don't know if Britain followed (a 2,240 pound version of) this after the war. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The Morris 15cwt truck you mentioned above weighed nearly two tons. DuncanHill (talk) 11:12, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added a note to List of military vehicles of World War II. Alansplodge (talk) 11:27, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

On a related note, I saw a YouTube video mentioning that - for a brief period of time - it seems to have been fairly common to replace celebrity cameos in animated movies with local celebrities. It seems as if the procedure has been abandoned by now, though. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:59, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Not the case for The Simpsons in the UK; you just have to accept that you don't know who the celebrity is supposed to be and that the attendant jokes are going to pass over your head. Alansplodge (talk) 11:27, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Considering there's about at least one celebrity cameo per episode, I guess it wouldn't be worth the money. Anyway, it seems as if this procedure soon was dropped even for high-budget cinema releases. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * We know most of the actors, musicians and even politicians, but baseball players and TV anchors are a bit of a mystery over here. Alansplodge (talk) 11:48, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ever hear of Mike Trout? Aaron Judge? Shohei Ohtani? Diane Sawyer? Or Babe Ruth from the 1910s to 1930s who's the Donald Bradman of baseball? Many (most?) Americans have heard of David Beckham but English footballer awareness drops sharply from there. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:35, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The first four are a mystery. The fifth I've heard of, and the sixth. The seventh is of little interest. I'm not sure what your point is other than to confirm that the UK and USA are two separate countries with some overlapping, and some divergent, cultures. Bazza (talk) 15:15, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The first 3 are among the best current baseball players and Diane Sawyer was the first USA-wide TV anchor that came to mind (I haven't watched TV news in about a decade). No point just wondering. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:06, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Most anyone who has ever heard of baseball has heard of Ruth. I've heard Ruth and Bradman compared, which is fair, although Ruth was already an established star before Bradman began his own extraordinary career. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:43, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comparing baseball stats with cricket stats is a futile exercise in comparing apples and bananas. Even within a general discipline, it's impossible: Is a sprinter who won a hundred 100-metre races a greater athlete than someone who won 3 Olympic marathons? The only sensible way to compare Ruth and Bradman is to acknowledge they were both in classes of their own. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:36, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure. They were each all-time greats in their respective bat-and-ball sports. But they get compared with each other because they had comparable impact. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * By the way, I believe I found that YouTube video I mentioned, now. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Aside
In a reverse example of the OP's question Mad Max (film) was released in the US dubbed into American English. There is some good info about this in the second paragraph Mad_Max_(film). I didn't get to hear the original actors until the DVD release. IMO dumbing things down for an audience is frustrating but whatta ya going to do :-) MarnetteD&#124;Talk 21:07, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I just remembered another film to have this happen is That Sinking Feeling. See That Sinking Feeling. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:42, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah yeah, thankfully Trainspotting avoided the localization... =D 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 00:17, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * This yin, though, could at least use subtitles for the Yank (or Sassenach) viewer. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  00:32, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Damn, they did The Full Monty on that one... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 02:22, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Our article on A Hard Day's Night says that a United Artists executive asked that the Beatles be dubbed with more comprehensible accents for the U.S. release. McCartney's response was "Look, if we can understand a fucking cowboy talking Texan, they can understand us talking Liverpool." Deor (talk) 17:53, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * "The Harder They Come" was apparently shown in some U.S. movie theaters with subtitles... AnonMoos (talk) 05:08, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * A proposal to dub Bob Hoskins' character in The Long Good Friday was apparently due to concern by Lew Grade that an American audience wouldn't understand a Cockney accent. Grade had himself been brought up in the East End of London.  Alansplodge (talk) 11:41, 13 July 2022 (UTC)