Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 July 22

= July 22 =

Expression
BBC writes: "Come World War Two, he volunteered for the RAF and became an early expert in radar technology". While understandable (after World War II had broke), I've never encountered such expression "Come [foo] + pronoun". How is it called grammatically? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 16:43, 22 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The OED describes this use thus, under come, v., sense 34:
 * (I've excerpted from a longer entry, as shown by the ellipses).
 * I note that it mentions only future time: your example is in past time, but I find that quite normal. ColinFine (talk) 17:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I note that it mentions only future time: your example is in past time, but I find that quite normal. ColinFine (talk) 17:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Often found in the fixed phrases wikt:come what may and wikt:come hell or high water. To me it sounds a little odd for past events. Like the "would" construction a few questions back, it suggests a "future-in-past" where the events are in our past but the future of the narrative. --Amble (talk) 17:42, 22 July 2022 (UTC)


 * In the Jimmy Buffett song called "Come Monday":
 * Come Monday, it'll be alright
 * Come Monday, I'll be holding you tight
 * I spent four lonely days in a brown LA haze
 * And I just want you back by my side
 * --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:52, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * For folk and classical music fans, see Seventeen Come Sunday:
 * "How old are you, my pretty fair maid? How old are you, my honey?
 * She answered me right cheerfully, I'm seventeen come Sunday".
 * Alansplodge (talk) 11:48, 23 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Grammatically, "come " is an adverbial clause of time. This specific use of the English subjunctive is a formulaic remnant: you cannot replace come by a synonym (*"We'll go to the sea shore, arrive summer."). You can usually replace come by the preposition by ("I guess my pig would have fed hundred weight by Christmas"), but not in the petrified idioms come what may and come hell or high water. "World War Two" is not a future time expression, which makes the cited use a bit strange. --Lambiam 07:43, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Though not a time expression as such, it began at a known time that was next in the sequence of the past events being described, so works in the context for that reason.
 * There is a (now rare) related usage of come in the past tense, prevalent in purple prose and mostly remembered in the phrase "came the dawn", which the linked novel titularised. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.201.73.20 (talk) 12:17, 23 July 2022 (UTC)."
 * As described in, subjunctive clauses most commonly appear as modifying non-veridical predicates. In the examples, the predicates are all non-veridical ("I've been working here twenty-seven years" and "I'm seventeen" (not yet true when uttered); "my pig would have fed hundred weight"; "it'll be alright"), except for the predicate "[ACC] volunteered for the RAF and became an early expert in radar technology" used on the BBC website; it is strictly veridical. It is conceivable that the author actually wrote "Came World War Two, he volunteered ..." and a copy editor unfamiliar with that usage "corrected" it. --Lambiam 18:30, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The subjunctive, however, is not used in Comes Love. I suppose that's because nothing can be done. --Trovatore (talk) 02:56, 24 July 2022 (UTC)


 * "Come Monday" = "When Monday comes" and "Come WWII" = "When WWII came". --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:24, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Another example https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Best_American_Magazine_Writing_2005/KqitKdzxSsUC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=come%20morning It meaning "with the arrival of". Modocc (talk) 19:41, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The whole passage is in the narrative present, and therefore "Come" has to use the present tense here. --Lambiam 02:31, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
 * More importantly, "[With the arrival of] morning..." and "[With the arrival of] World World War Two..." fit their respective narratives. "Came WW2..." is stilted. Modocc (talk) 03:43, 24 July 2022 (UTC)