Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 May 29

= May 29 =

Conchousness
English in not my native language. Most of the times I hear the word "consciousness" I have the impression that it is not pronunced with the standard /ˈkɑnʃəsnəs/ or /ˈkɒnʃəsnəs/ but with a "ch" sound (if I were to guess, a voiceless postalveolar affricate). Is this a known phenomenon? Thank you! --79.26.54.47 (talk) 07:35, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting question. It's maybe a little of both. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * 79.26.54.47 -- just about anywhere you have a sequence of stressed vowel + nasal + quasi-homorganic fricative, you can get a phonetic "excrescent" stop consonant inserted between the last two, in at least some dialects of English. It's more often noticed at the ends of words: "lens" pronounced "lendz", "fence" pronounced "fents", "triumph" with a [p] inserted between the "m" and "f".  See article section Epenthesis... AnonMoos (talk) 08:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * P.S. Another example is that a "k" stop consonant can be inserted between the "ng" and "th" sounds in words like "length" and "strength"... AnonMoos (talk) 12:40, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Though some pronounce those words as if they were spelled "lenth" and "strenth". --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:55, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * "Why can't the English teach their children how to speak? / Norwegians learn Norwegian; the Greeks have taught their Greek... But use proper English you're regarded as a freak. / Why can't the English, / Why can't the English learn to speak?" (From My Fair Lady). Alansplodge (talk) 12:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Granted, the situation with Norwegian is far more complex than the lyrics would assume. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:37, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

"robot position" vs "robot's position"
Hello,

Should it be "robot's position" in the following sentence?

The robot position is calculated using encoder data.

Thank you. -- 46.225.152.174 (talk) 11:18, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Simple answer: either is correct, but "robot's position" is more clear and formal.
 * Looking at the examples in the first paragraph of Adjective, "robot position" is fine. It leaves the ownership relation ambiguous. Does the robot have the position, or does the position have the robot? However, this is not important.
 * Using this technique to remove every instance of 's from English is not advisable, at this stage of the language evolution. Card Zero  (talk) 12:34, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * A "robot position" could mean a special kind of position suitable for robots, while "robot's position" would be the ordinary position of a specific robot. AnonMoos (talk) 12:40, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 's is required. Does the encoder also calculate other positions like "downward facing dog"? I do not understand Card Zero's point: a "child's actor" is not the same as a "child actor". Rmhermen (talk) 23:44, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you're right, none of those examples match the question very well. I guess the shoe size is a better equivalent. It might mean "the shoe's size" in the context of the description of a shoe, or it might mean "the size of shoe" in the context of a person's measurements. It can be about the shoe and the size that it has, or about the size and the quality of relating to shoes that it has. Card Zero  (talk) 02:05, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And so, just as for "shoe size" vs "shoe's size", it is not possible to give a conclusive answer without knowing more about the context. If there is a robot somewhere at (or in) some (unknown) position, and its position is estimated based on a computation involving data derived from sensors, the best would seem to use "the robot's position". If the issue is to figure out what will be a good way to position a number of items, one of which is a robot, then either is fine. --Lambiam 07:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)