Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 November 12

= November 12 =

Given name
For someone like J. Edgar Hoover, is the initial, John or Edgar considered the first/given name? Also, if it's not Edgar, is there a special term/classification for Edgar? Clarityfiend (talk) 09:22, 12 November 2022 (UTC)


 * His given names are John and Edgar, his first name is John, his second (or middle) name is Edgar. Shantavira|feed me 10:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)


 * German has the term Rufname (literally “call name”), used in Germany for the given name by which a person with several given names is known, so John Renford Bambrough had the Rufname Renford. As far as I know, English has no simple term for this. More generally, though, the same term is now also used in German for nicknames, so Ottilie Klimek had the Rufname Tillie. --Lambiam 20:33, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has middle name as primary forename, but in everyday speech, "going by your middle name" is more usual, in Britain at least. Alansplodge (talk) 21:56, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The thing that English doesn't have a name for is the "primary forename". --174.89.144.126 (talk) 01:32, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure it does. You just said it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Would most English-speaking people understand the question, "What is your primary name?"? --Lambiam 19:59, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Under what circumstances would they need to ask? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:14, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Under what circumstances would you expect an answer to your question? --Lambiam 08:48, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * When have you ever heard anyone ask "What is your primary name?"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:40, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * British English speakers would probably not understand what was meant by "primary name". "Forename" might also cause some confusion. Bazza (talk) 09:30, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Most American English speakers would also probably not understand "primary name" or "forename". Generally, I ask someone "what is your name?" and they tell me something that is probably what is characterized in this conversation as "primary name". That is, they will say "Jack Johnson" when their legal name is "John Henry Johnson". Or they will say "David Perkins" when their legal name is "Henry David Perkins". The full, legal name rarely comes up outside of government paperwork, so there seems to be little demand for the specific term "preferred name" or its equivalent. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 17:40, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Swedish has the similar concept of tilltalsnamn, by the way. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 00:54, 13 November 2022 (UTC)


 * "Preferred name" is relatively common, although it is not necessarily limited to given names. Also it covers abbreviations (eg "Mike" vs "Michael"). Mitch Ames (talk) 05:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks all. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:04, 13 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Per the ngram, "first name" is still by far the most common term. I wonder if the recent rise in "given name" is due to this situation. "forename" is comparatively rare. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * In the distant past when I was at school in England, "Christian name" was almost universal, but is now obsolete for obvious reasons. Alansplodge (talk) 18:18, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Good point - and interesting addition to the ngram. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:00, 14 November 2022 (UTC)