Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 November 30

= November 30 =

Various film titles
Good evening, would anybody be able to help with providing requested translations for the following film titles: It would be much appreciated, thank you-- Jac 16888 Talk 17:11, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Rathna Manjari, Kannada
 * Jailppulli, Malayalam
 * Maattoly, Malayalam
 * Peruvazhiyambalam, Malayalam
 * Soorya Manasam, Malayalam
 * Viruthan Shanku, Malayalam
 * Vivahithare Ithile, Malayalam
 * Saade Maade Teen, Marthi
 * Arumbu Meesai Kurumbu Paarvai, Tamil
 * Ethanai Konam Ethanai Parvai, Tamil
 * Pattathu Rani, Tamil
 * Piriya Vidai, Tamil
 * Thandikkappatta Nyayangal, Tamil
 * Uchithanai Muharnthaal, Tamil
 * Velundu Vinaiyillai, Tamil
 * Chitram! Bhalare Vichitram!!, Telugu
 * Siri Siri Muvva, Telugu


 * I think Rathna is ರತ್ನ, meaning "gem". Manjari may be a proper noun; there is a singer with this mononym. --Lambiam 11:22, 1 December 2022 (UTC)


 * This book has Peruvazhiyambalam as "Wayside Inn". Note that English film titles are not always direct translations. Alansplodge (talk) 12:39, 1 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Just a side note; we need to be sure that when we're translating this to English, we're also preserving the title as English language sources refer to these films. If English sources don't translate the title from the original, we should still maintain the article at the proper title; and not move it to the English language name; the text of the article should also use the predominant title as the main referent for the film and not the translated one.  For example, Au revoir les enfants is not called "Goodbye Children" in English sources; that's what it means, but even English-languages discussions of the film call it Au revoir les enfants.  That is different from Breathless which is a translation of the French title À bout de souffle.  Why does every source translate one but not the other?  Damned if I know.  But that's what all of those other sources do, so that's what we at Wikipedia do.  So we need to be careful that we use the title of the film primarily used by other English-language sources, (excepting perhaps for a single note in the lead explaining the translation).  -- Jayron 32 18:21, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Just a guess, but the first is idiomatic (literally "at the end of breath" and perhaps a possible confusion with souffle) whereas you don't need much French (if any) to work out "au revoir" and "les enfants". Alansplodge (talk) 22:32, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, La Pianiste was translated to The Piano Teacher even if the title arguably was even easier to understand... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 02:52, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's inexplicable. A previous RefDesk thread (which I can't now find) suggested that film titles in European languages were offputting to US audiences, but were more likely to be untranslated in the UK. An example which springs to mind is the 1987 film Le grand chemin, which kept its French title in Britain but was released in America as The Grand Highway. I don't know which title La Pianiste was released under here, but modern internet streaming probably means that a common approach will be taken in future. Alansplodge (talk) 12:02, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The point is, it doesn't need any explanation, especially not one we just "make up" because we're uncomfortable with just letting things go unexplained. These things just are.  Explanations are a fun little game to play, but they are irrelevant to what people have actually done in these cases.  There's a plethora of reasons and antecedent events that may have led to the current situation with regard to the titling of any one movie in terms of how English speakers will refer to that movie.  Any putative explanation as to why a particular movie may have been titled the way it is in English, whether being in the original language, a direct translation, and idiomatic translation, or a completely unrelated title, won't actually change what the title is.  It is what it is. -- Jayron 32 13:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree with you at all (and have no intention of moving these articles) but another editor has requested the translations and I seem to remember that somewhere there is an MOS or policy that (rightly or wrongly) says one should be provided where possible-- Jac 16888 Talk 17:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:TITLE states, "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." This is about the article title (the page name). The only plausible usage of these film titles in English-language sources is in reviews in English-language newspapers in India; I bet these will use transliterations, just like our article titles. Another matter is to offer an explanation of the meaning of an untranslated foreign-language film title in the text of of the article. We do this occasionally (for example at Janghwa Hongryeon jeon (1956 film)), but not routinely. --Lambiam 10:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * There might also possibly be puns and allusions to current local pop culture, that could be hard to translate well. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:53, 1 December 2022 (UTC)