Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 April 26

= April 26 =

English tense of "is eaten"
In the sentence "This type of rice is eaten all over the world." what tense is represented by 'is eaten'? RJFJR (talk) 04:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Present tense, passive voice. --Wrongfilter (talk) 05:10, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * More specifically, the simple present.  --Lambiam 09:39, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Damn it, never good enough... But, isn't "simple" more of an aspect? --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:08, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * True, but then you could just have said "Present tense", full stop. --Lambiam 14:58, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I could have, but I suspect that the passive voice is what actually prompted the question. I hope you didn't take offense, my comment was thoroughly tongue in cheek. --Wrongfilter (talk) 15:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My seconds will contact your seconds. --Lambiam 20:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * These days, we have to say "My seconds will reach out to your seconds. (*vomit*) --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:16, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I see now. I was trying to figure out why that form to be was in there and it threw me.   (I was trying to figure out how to explain to a non-native speaker of English why it should be is eaten rather than is ate.)  Thank you. RJFJR (talk) 01:57, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Péter Pan
I have a very important question to ask. I don't speak French but I just noticed that, according to our Wiktionary, péter means "flatulate" and pan can be an onomatopoeic French word meaning "Bang!". Was it ever an issue for the French translations of Peter Pan? 195.62.160.60 (talk) 11:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't believe so. The French are as familiar with common English first names as the English are with French names like Pierre, and the Greek god Pan, which was the inspiration for the character and the last name, is well known by that name in French.  Does it mean that someone wouldn't have made a silly joke?  Of course, toilet humor and puns exist in all languages, I'm sure someone thought to make such a joke.  But it would not have presented any confusion or caused any sort of misunderstanding.  -- Jayron 32 12:46, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Although the names of English language characters are often changed in translation, the French Wikipedia article Peter Pan suggests that this is not the case in this instance. Bizarrely, Christopher Robin becomes Jean-Christophe in French, even though they can manage Robin des Bois for Robin Hood. Also there's Janneman Robinson in Dutch, even though Christoffel is a well-known forename in the Netherlands. Alansplodge (talk) 13:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Just about every single Bandes dessinées character has a separate name in Dutch... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Captain Hook and his sidekick Mr. Smee are le capitaine Crochet and M. Mouche in the French translations. --Lambiam 15:49, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * While not very common, the name Peter occurs as a masculine given name in France (Peter Franquart, Peter Luccin, Peter Sampil), and the name Wendy as a feminine given name (Wendy Bouchard, Wendy Delorme, Wendy Obein). But perhaps these were named after the fictional Peter and Wendy. --Lambiam 15:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * In the case of Wendy, almost certainly named chronologically after Wendy Darling, if not directly named after them. The modern name Wendy as a girls name was basically nonexistent prior to Barrie's introduction of it (it can be found as a masculine first name and as a surname, though both are exceedingly rare to the point that it is doubtful Barrie had ever heard the name before).  Basically, Barrie invented the name out of whole cloth, and any use of it in the modern world comes from Peter Pan (if not directly, then at some point in the chain).  -- Jayron 32 15:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Mostly agree, but Wendy Wood (born 1891), as a contraction of Gwendoline, slightly predates Barry's play, although whether she adopted the name later in life, I have been unable to determine. Gwendolen is a Welsh name derived from Queen Gwendolen, a legendary British queen and I imagine would be unknown in France. Alansplodge (talk) 18:08, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * More to the point, it is unlikely that Barrie named his character after a preteen living in South Africa... -- Jayron 32 18:24, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but my point was that "Wendy" may have been a known but uncommon contraction of "Gwendoline" at that time. Alansplodge (talk) 18:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. -- Jayron 32 18:39, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I had assumed she was called Wendy because she wends her way. (Aside:  Is anything but a way ever wended?)  I grew up with the pin–pen merger, which I had to unlearn and which probably still pops up from time to time, so I also associate "Windy" with this name. --Trovatore (talk) 21:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * See Wendy Darling. Deor (talk) 22:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:WHAAOE! Alansplodge (talk) 18:34, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sometimes we have even more than one. Much the same points are made in the lead of Wendy. Deor (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting fact: "went" is the past tense of "go" in modern English, but previously it was the past tense of "wend". The past tense of "go" in Old English and early Middle English was more regular (something like "goed" but with various spellings: "ȝod", "ȝodd", "ȝode", etc.) "Went" started taking over as the past tense of "go" sometime around the 16th century. CodeTalker (talk) 00:55, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Although "ȝod", "ȝodd", "ȝode" are still irregular formations, and believed to be cognate to Latin eō (ire), Sanskrit एति (éti), εἶμι (eîmi) and Russian идти́ (idtí), from what I can see... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There is Emmanuel Chabrier's opera Gwendoline (1886). Double sharp (talk) 16:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)