Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 August 8

= August 8 =

Where to find academic sources on Tsonga languages
I've identified a group of possible misconceptions—or at least a significant absence of information/explanations—on the classification of Tsonga/Tswa-Ronga languages. The Xitsonga article describes both synonyms and dialects, yet in a seemingly contradictory way (throughout the English Wikipedia).

I'll focus on the use of Xichangana to illustrate. From the Tsonga article:
 * «What is commonly referred to as "Shangana/Changana" is not a recognized language in South Africa and is not a dialect that falls within the Xitsonga language group, as its distinctiveness stems mainly from the use of the Nguni language and grammar.»

And Tswa-Ronga, on the family of languages where Xitsonga is inserted, mentions this:
 * «"Tsonga" is used to refer to all three languages,[citation needed] although often used interchangeably with Changana, the most prestigious of the three.»

The pt:Língua tsonga article on the Portuguese Wikipedia provides some elucidating sources and answers from Mozambique: Xironga being the dialect in the province of Maputo and Xichangana being the dialect in the province of Gaza, yet people from the province of Maputo also calling their dialect Changana (with some distinctions being lost with the generations). Both Xironga and Xichangana being dialects of Xitsonga, and Xichangana being a recognised language in Mozambique.

So the questions that remain are: who exactly uses the word Tsonga for all Tswa-Ronga languages, who uses Changana to mean Tsonga, who uses Tsonga to be a family of languages of which Changana is a dialect of, and what dialect is that exactly—closely related to Tsonga, Nguni? Where are they spoken and where are they recognised outside Mozambique?

I'm hoping to use the Mozambican academic sources in the mentioned articles to improve the English Wikipedia, however, I still find myself believing there's a lack of other perspectives that might be fueling the current descriptions (namely South African).
 * As an example, the Portuguese article mentions words like Shangane/Shangaan used in South Africa and Shangani in Zimbabwe apparently with no source.

My background is only meeting people who speak Changana and saying the 2 year-old baby basics, nothing else, so I'm wondering where I can find South African sources to better understand how these terms are used there, academically and by the speakers. Places to search in other areas of interest, like Zimbabwe, are also very welcome.

I recognise I'm asking for something both niche and broad. Hope you can help me. Appreciate it, Sto0pinismo0_o 20:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * A Swedish professor discusses how Changana is the name used in Mozambique and Tsonga is the name used in South Africa (but with complications):
 * Google search snippet for this says “Language policy decisions taken in 1983 recognised Tsonga (that is Tsonga/Changana, and including Ronga and Tshwa), spoken by approximately 19% of the population, as one of” – so searched for a 1983 language policy. There’s probably better info out there, but first quick look brings up a UNESCO paper which was used to inform the policy  and this doctoral thesis on the policy.
 * And finally, here’s an interesting discussion of the ethnic group which also explores the naming confusion . (all these found on scholar.google.com) 70.67.193.176 (talk) 15:42, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It's usually worth checking out, say, the OLAC archives on Tsonga (iarchive). Some of the links, like Glottolog, get into classifications. I also recommend searching the Linguist List archives as a go-to, -- a book review of Chimbutane 2011 turned up when I checked. Ethnologue's Tsonga page (iarchive) also does a good job of dumping seemingly all known classifications and spellings of the dialects. SamuelRiv (talk) 11:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)