Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 December 1

= December 1 =

Classification of Ryukyuan loans
Are Japanese words borrowed from a Ryukyuan language classified as wago (native Japanese words), gairaigo (words of foreign origin, usually except for words from pre-modern Chinese), or something else entirely? Primal Groudon (talk) 04:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I cannot confirm what classification such words fall under, but Ryukyuan languages mentions that the general mainland Japanese perception of Ryukyuan languages is that they are "a dialect or group of dialects of Japanese." As such, I would speculate that they might be seen as dialectal wago. GalacticShoe (talk) 06:09, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

English word order
Can the following word orders be used in English:


 * 1) Book has he not read.
 * 2) Healthy is he not.

Several other Germanic languages allow these, but does English too? --40bus (talk) 20:45, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I have personally never seen either word order as standalone statements. The first sentence in particular is confusing to me because of the lack of an article. These could be fragments of questions though (e.g. "[what] book has he not read[?]", or "[he's] healthy[,] is he not[?]") GalacticShoe (talk) 21:07, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 2. could just about work as a line of poetry, in a composition using such oddly mannered but not impossible grammar throughout; as a standalone, or isolated among more normal language, it would be plain weird. As GalacticShoe says, adding a comma and query would render it normal if slightly old fashioned, even without a preceding pronoun: "Healthy, is he not?"
 * I cannot think of any way that 1. could be rendered intelligible. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 21:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * This is the so-called V2 word order also found in Old and Middle English. The section does not give examples in the unadulterated form of 1 and 2 above.  --Lambiam 22:45, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * 40bus -- It's possible to apply topicalization to produce sentences such as "A book, he has not read" or "Healthy, he is not" (often considered stereotypically Yiddish-influenced), but your sentences are pretty much hopeless. AnonMoos (talk) 09:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yoda would look at those and say, "Dude!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yoda uses Object–subject–verb word order (OSV), not V2 nor any form discussed therein. SamuelRiv (talk) 21:49, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The sentences given by AnonMoos use Yoda word order. --Lambiam 10:38, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, and they are not V2, which was AnonMoos's point. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's possible also in Modern English, but in very rare constructions (e.g. in poetry but not necessarily):
 * Not only any book has he not read, but also any newspaper. Note the word "has" must precede the word "he", unless we let it mean: "Not only any book [which] he has not read, but also any newspaper [which he has not read]".
 * Not only healthy is he not, but also sane (he isn't).
 * This website gives: Always only you, am I in love with. This website gives the following English version of Psalms 62 2: by you and only you am I restored.
 * HOTmag (talk) 10:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This website gives: Always only you, am I in love with. This website gives the following English version of Psalms 62 2: by you and only you am I restored.
 * HOTmag (talk) 10:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * HOTmag (talk) 10:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * , your two examples are written as stand-alone sentences, since you begin each with a capital letter. Do you want them assessed only as such (which is what I assumed), or as possible elements in longer sentences, as several commentaters have done above? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 13:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I want them assessed as stand-alone sentences. The #1 emphasizes that it is book which he has not read and the #2 emphasizes that he is not healthy, and not e.g. unhealthy.

--40bus (talk) 15:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * [Only] a book has he not read [but he has read newspapers].
 * [Only] healthy is he not [but he is sane].
 * As you wrote, #1 emphasizes that it is [only] a book which he has not read, while #2 emphasizes that he is [only] not healthy, and [that he is] not e.g. unhealthy (or insane). HOTmag (talk) 15:42, 4 December 2023 (UTC)