Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 December 24

= December 24 =

How to call a bunch of buildings in a village?
Hi folks. I'm trying to find the English name for a bunch of buildings in a village that belong to a single family, such as a house, animal shelters, garage etc. and which are often closed by a single fence. Google translate suggests homestead, but I understand from the article this applies to isolated places, such as farms. Is it OK to use the term for houses in the village as well? Thanks. Strainu (talk) 09:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)


 * manor? tenement? HOTmag (talk) 11:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's also hamlet, but this is also usually separate from a village, and with diverse owners. Legally an estate, or a physical estate? But obviously not a housing estate! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * "Manor" is a technical term.  See lord of the manor.   "Tenement" implies a poor quality dwelling.   Most people would use the word "estate". 2A00:23C5:E103:3301:25DF:D528:CED7:A938 (talk) 11:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * A manor is/was typically much larger than a single group of buildings, it would usually cover hundreds of acres and include several tenant farms as well as the manor house. Alansplodge (talk) 11:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Single-owner settlement? Conglomerate dwelling? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I think "property" would be the usual term in England (at least for estate agents, like this for example). Alansplodge (talk) 11:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And for A Place in the Sun, Location, Location, Location, Escape to the Country, etc. etc., of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with @Alansplodge, who beat me to it. Bazza (talk) 13:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you everyone, property seems very promising in my context! I also found Curtilage on wiki, is it used in normal language or it's only a legal term? Strainu (talk) 13:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * "Curtilage" is firmly in the realm of legal jargon - I have heard of it but I had to click your link to find out what it actually meant. Alansplodge (talk) 13:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the sort of word used by the honourable member for the 18th century? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * x 2 When you say "belong", are you referring to ownership or tenancy?  "Occupancy" is a factor, since tenants can sub-let.   @Alansplodge: You know the area?, . The word "curtilage" is used by planners and also appears in law reports. 92.28.95.221 (talk) 13:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Does "curtilage" include one's island to house the ducks in a pond? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * "Family compound"? --Lambiam 14:43, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That better fits the description of a fortification though. If not "home" or "homestead" then "property" or simply the possessive of the family's name is commonplace, for example "This New Years party will be at the Jones' (or 'the Jones' property')". Modocc (talk) 17:12, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Lambian that "family compound" is the best, at least in American English. Fencing, after all, is a basic form of fortification. None of the alternatives suggested by Modocc suggest multiple buildings as opposed to a single house. Cullen328 (talk) 17:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My neighbors have all that and we don't call them compounds unless we are talking about the zoo. Modocc (talk) 17:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Or maybe the Alamo, etc.? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Huh. To my mind's ear, "family compound" evokes ideas of Don Corleone or Doomsday Preppers. Maybe I have the association that a "compound" is designed to be defensible by force. Folly Mox (talk) 17:37, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Fencing is also a form of demarcation, and in most village contexts it's more to keep animals in than to keep humans out. (In my experiences while in the US, this function is typically accomplished by signs reading "Posted: no trespassing"). Folly Mox (talk) 17:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * what kind of village are we talking about here? You mention that "homestead" is typically for isolated places such as farms, but I've never been to a village that had no farms in it, and if a family has a separate structure for animal shelter, they're probably engaged in agriculture. Family farms aren't necessarily separated by great distance, either: they might only be a block or so apart, with the field holdings stretching back perpendicular to the road. Folly Mox (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Folly Mox to me a farm is a place where the house and the annexes are near a large plot of land (which the inhabitants of the house work on). I'm talking about something like this random village in Romania (see street view as well): each of the (roughly) north-south lines of vegetation perpendicular to the road separates 2 properties and each property has one or more buildings. Even if the owners cultivate crops on the plot of land behind the house, if they work in agriculture they generally have a much larger terrain somewhere outside the village. Strainu (talk) 17:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I wouldn't call those places "farms" either, although it looks like there is at least one nearby. In my experience as a native speaker of English, I don't think we have a commonly used and generally understood term that encompasses all the structures (and only the structures) owned by a family on a single property. Most people would say "property" or "home" or even "place" (like "the Nicols' place"). If it's not obvious someone means all the structures on the property, they might even append "including outbuildings" for clarity."Compound" is ok I guess, but at least to me it connotes ideas of power, wealth, or paranoia, and isn't the kind of place a person could (or would want to) enter simply by surmounting a waist-high fence. Folly Mox (talk) 18:06, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd call these "lots", so if they are owned by families you might call them "family lots". While the term "lot" does not imply the area is fenced, it is customary to mark the boundaries between adjacent lots. However, the term "family lot" is also used for cemetery lots, so it is not usable unless it is clear from the context that the lot (also) has a residential function. --Lambiam 20:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The elephant in the compound here... are these "bunch of buildings in a village" in the US or in the UK? (Or maybe even on a station, Bruce?) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I doubt that we will be able to settle on a globally acceptable term. I would suggest estate in some situations, as in family estate. HiLo48 (talk) 22:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Apparently, the aim is to find English terminology for referring to lots in Romanian villages such as Mârșa. Family estate carries a connotation of grandeur or wealth that is not applicable. --Lambiam 22:49, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe there's a special term in Romanian? Or perhaps we might need to ask if the residents were Americans or Brits. (Or maybe even someone who's both and who needs a few spare out-buildings.) Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a special term in Romanian: "gospodărie". Its definition is "the totality of goods which constitutes the (real estate) worth of a person, especially in the countryside". Depending on context, it can include or not the land. In my context I'm talking about constructions moved from the village to an ethnographic museum, so it does not include the land.
 * Example: "Gospodăria din Mârșa" = "The ??? from Mârșa"
 * That's what I'm trying to translate. I can totally go with "homestead" and most Romanians speaking English would understand. The question is: would a native English speaker understand what I'm trying to refer to, especially the fact that we're not referring to a single construction? Strainu (talk) 23:14, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * A homestead should include the land. Thus either "home", "house", "buildings" or "structure(s)" is best. See Structure relocation for examples. Modocc (talk) 23:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In this context I'd not try to translate gospodărie with a single English word. "All the structures on the family's land" would get the meaning across to English speakers; others may have more eloquent suggestions. Folly Mox (talk) 23:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah right. There is a similar set up at St Fagans National Museum of History near Cardiff, where whole buildings have been transported/ re-erected. But it's really a collection of individual buildings, rather that one family's entire homestead/smallholding. In Welsh, the word would be tyddyn. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:46, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * A couple of British English words are close to what Strainu is talking about.
 * Farmstead: a farm or the part of a farm comprising its main buildings together with adjacent grounds (Collins Dictionary 1979);
 * Steading: a farmhouse and outbuildings; often, the outbuildings in contrast to the farmhouse (Compact Oxford English Dictionary) [more common in the North of England and Scotland].
 * {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.111.170 (talk) 00:12, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You could use "the buildings on a homestead/farmstead/steading". The term farmstead implies (more strongly than homestead) that the property is a farm or part of one. If the historical owners of the museal gospodării were not necessarily farmers, homestead may be the better choice. It is also not clear how well current English speakers understand the terms farmstead and particularly steading.  --Lambiam 12:54, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have never heard either term used in conversation in England, but might be understood in a historical context. Moreover, neither is applicable to buildings in a village, per the original question. Alansplodge (talk) 12:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

I have a number of distant relatives who own (presumably) and live in a small cluster of homes in southern Ohio; it's not in a village, but out in the countryside, but the municipal status of the area probably doesn't matter too much. Other relatives and I have always spoken of it as their "compound" or "family compound", although it's completely unfortified (no fences) and consists of a mix of prefabricated homes and mobile homes. If they set up a fence around the place, I'm sure it wouldn't affect our terminology for the location. Nyttend (talk) 00:06, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * To me, the term compound has a connotation of occupying an isolated patch of terrain, very much unlike the adjacent residential lots in European villages. My current best suggestion is, "the buildings on a family lot". --Lambiam 11:21, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Context is everything; "compound" would be fine for say, Afghanistan for example, but would be alien to an English village. "Lot" sounds very American; in the United Kingdom it would suggest something that was about to be auctioned. Alansplodge (talk) 12:40, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * How would an Englishperson refer to the slices of land seen here? (Ignore the fact that they happen to be triangular.) Presumably, each has a different owner whose family probably has their residence on the land they own. So assume the Adcock family moved and left their property for sale. Now fill in the blanks in a way that makes clear the speaker is referring to landed estate: Did you hear? The Adcocks' _____ has been sold to a bunch of townspeople. --Lambiam 20:49, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably "house" (the land and other buildings would be assumed to be included in the sale) or "place". Maybe "property" if you were being more formal. Iapetus (talk) 15:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Will listeners in general, upon hearing the sentence The Adcocks' place has been sold, infer that the speaker is referring to landed estate? --Lambiam 10:39, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * How about "settlement"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Although that might be taken to refer to the whole village. Alansplodge (talk) 23:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Going via the romanian article about Gospodăria românească, and some other related articles in different languages...would a "hold" or better even a "household" convey the intended meaning? Lectonar (talk) 15:02, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No. "Hold" is unlikely to be understood at all, and "household" can refer to a single small apartment. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:43, 28 December 2023 (UTC)