Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 December 28

= December 28 =

Decadência
In an advertisement for its new ship Queen Anne in the i on 18 November the Cunard Line says that two years and one day later she will be visiting

"Lisbon, Portugal

"Among its rooftops, Gothic towers and decadent domes burst from a sea of red-tiled buildings, while at ground level you'll see elegant shops, graceful palacios and ancient ruins."

Why are the domes described as "decadent"? 78.146.96.174 (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In this context, I guess it's supposed to be read as lavish and ostentatious... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As the WP editor Hoary pointed out here some time ago, the notion of decadence is often invoked "with little or no meaning"; see Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 May 11. Deor (talk) 17:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Somewhat like some who say "infamous" to mean "very well known" in a good way, as opposed to in a bad way. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Not quite, I think. There is a logical thread you can follow to get to this use of "decadent".  I think the idea is that a well-structured society is supposed to involve asceticism and personal moral rigor and self-restraint.  When these societies decay, you see the rise of indulgence and opulence.  Then those who approve of indulgence and opulence, at least in a particular context, re-appropriate the term to praise them.
 * You don't have to buy the underlying theory that ascetic societies are the best ones, but given that that theory exists, you can't really say that the usage is illogical. --Trovatore (talk) 19:34, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That term "decadent" is often used in reference to very rich foods, especially desserts. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:21, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary gives two senses for decadent:
 * Characterized by moral or cultural decline.
 * Luxuriously self-indulgent.
 * For the second sense, the colloquial synonym sinful is given. --Lambiam 20:01, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * "Luxury" seems like an apt word to compare; it's cognate with Italian lussuria, one of the seven deadly sins. Wiktionary doesn't seem to take note of this sense surviving in English, but I bet it does.  Someone who knows Wiktionary procedures better should probably update this. --Trovatore (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅So done. --Lambiam 18:34, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For luxuria in the context of the seven deadly sins, the usual English word is lust. Not an entirely satisfactory equivalent, perhaps, but the Latin word does have a connotation of specifically sexual excess. I don't think luxury is used in this sense these days. Deor (talk) 21:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * "Decadent might be a description of Rococo architecture in Portugal (though many of the Rococo buildings in the Lisbon area were destroyed in the 1755 earthquake)... AnonMoos (talk) 05:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)