Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 June 3

= June 3 =

/aɪ/ in England
Was directed here from Help talk:IPA/English. Is there an article on WP about a specific accent in England in which the vowel in a word like "know" goes from /oʊ/ to a slight, or even strong, /aɪ/? Example sentence: "/ə daɪnt naɪ/" or "/ə naɪ!/" I know it occurs prominently in Australian English (sometimes referred to in my circles as "Home and Away english"), but which accents in southern England have a similar thing going? I've heard smidges of it in London, but I'm led to believe it occurs more so in the surrounding areas. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 16:08, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I think there are accents with /aʏ/ (i.e. a high rounded front second segment) which are stereotypically rendered a /aɪ/. (I remember Steve Bell always used to portray the Royals saying "hice" for "house".) I don't remember hearing any which actually use /aɪ/. ColinFine (talk) 16:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * But the question is about GOAT, not MOUTH. Nardog (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You're right, it was about GOAT. But it's the same principle, of fronting the high rounded vowel in the diphthong. It is possible that it is unrounded for some people, but in any case it's heard as unrounded becase most varieties of English don't have rounded front vowels. ColinFine (talk) 22:49, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you mentioned Australian English. I've commented on this elsewhere. The way we many of us pronounce the O sound has undergone a massive change in a relatively short time (say, 40 years, well within my lifetime). Many speakers forget, if they ever knew, that to make the O sound one has to lengthen the mouth vertically. Instead, they lengthen it horizontally, as if they're wanting to make an EE sound. Or, they think that one has to have a permanent broad smile, or risk some unnamed ghastly punishment. Consequently, Os and EEs are all mixed up and we hear things like a current TV ad promoting "Google Chrome for your phone" in which the speaker says, what sounds like, "Get Google Crime for your fine". It's a most unwelcome and unnecessary development, and the government should do something about it. Why, I may even write a letter to the newspaper; yes, that should help ... --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:23, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would 💯 install Google Crime to help me with my fines. Folly Mox (talk) 18:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You have my full support for such a letter. I liken the sound of "Get Google Crime for your fine" to that of cats whining. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I've gone over the vowels in East Midlands English and East Anglian English and they definitely don't correspond to what I'm hearing. I already knew it wasn't going to be West Country English either—kinda my stomping grounds these days. I'm strongly leaning towards Estuary English, particularly this bit: "EE is said to exhibit diphthong shift, particularly of the FACE, PRICE, MOUTH and GOAT vowels (informal example: "nime" for "name")." That's a wrap on my part. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)