Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 June 4

= June 4 =

Identifying an American accent
OK, last language mystery from me. There's a particular American accent I'm struggling to pinpoint. "Thinking" is pronounced /ˈθiːŋkiːŋ/ (not the Mexican-accented way), "guys" as /ˈgæ:z/, "cheating" as /ˈtʃeɪdiːŋ/ , and "wrestling" as /ˈrɪslɪŋ/. It's possibly one of the Southern or Midland accents, but I'm really stumped on this one. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)


 * It mostly sounds southern or south Midland to me. The monophthongization of /aɪ/ to [aː] in guys is stage 1 of the Southern vowel shift; the breaking of /i/ to [ɪi] in cheating is stage 3. On the other hand, the tensing of /ɪŋ/ to /iŋ/ is more typical of California English, and I don't know who in North America would raise /ɛ/ to [ɪ] in wrestling (that's more typical of Southern Hemisphere accents). In the South, that raising usually happens only before nasal consonants, and in California /ɛ/ actually lowers toward [æ], so if anything wrestling should sound like rassling (incidentally the stereotypically southern or at least "hickish" pronunciation of that word). Maybe this comes from a Southerner who lived in California and New Zealand for a while? —Mahāgaja · talk 10:51, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Three questions
--40bus (talk) 20:23, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Are there any languages using Latin alphabet with more than two contrasing plosives in any place of articulation? Are there any languages which mark aspiration by trailing H?
 * 2) Are there any words in Estonian where double vowel is followed by double consonant, or vice versa?
 * 3) Are there any suffixes in Swedish which has letters i, u, y, å, ä or ö?


 * Vietnamese (among the alveolars), Hausa (arguably four different manners at some places of articulation), some African languages with prenasalized stops (can't track down a specific example right now). AnonMoos (talk) 00:57, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If secondary articulations like velarization and palatization count, then Irish Gaelic, as well as Lithuanian. Quechua also seems to have three sets of plain, aspirated, and ejective, as does Navaho, and certainly many more languages in the Americas, though many of them might rarely be used in writing. Lakota even distinguishes four contrasting plosives: voiceless, voiced, aspirated, and ejective according to our article.
 * Alemannic German dialects do not have a standardized orthography, but many distinguish Lenis (shorter obstruction) and Fortis (with longer obstruction) plosives (both unaspirated), usually written b,d,g and p,t,k. Through borrowings from Standard German (where p,t,k are typically aspirated), an arguably phonemic aspirated series also exists. Some orthographies for Alemannic dialects distinguish these, as in Basel German: Bòscht 'post office', Woope 'coat of arms', and phassyyv 'passive'/Brueder 'brother', Zyt 'time', and Thee 'tea'/Gind 'child', Balgge 'wooden board', and Koffer 'suitcase'. This spelling system for Basel German is commonly used in writing during the Basel Carneval at least. --Terfili (talk) 07:25, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Re 3: Yes, many. See . --T*U (talk) 11:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * These are all derivational, not inflectional suffixes. Are there any inflectional suffixes in Swedish which has letters i, u, y, å, ä or ö? --40bus (talk) 18:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See the supine verb forms ending with -it: Swedish_grammar. --Amble (talk) 21:30, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think the full supine word could be classified as a suffix... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about the full word? The article itself describes the -it ending in certain verbs as a suffix: "pan-Swedish rules for the distinction in use of the -et and -it verbal suffixes were codified with the first official Swedish Bible translation, completed 1541." And it gives examples where the supine form is the stem plus -it. If that's not an inflectional suffix, then what is? --Amble (talk) 17:05, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I guess -it would suffice. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

1: Also see e.g. Zulu language and Xhosa language. --Theurgist (talk) 22:21, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

One more question: can nasal vowels in French occur in closed syllables? --40bus (talk) 18:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Sure: the examples of wikt:sphinx and wikt:lynx were given to you on this same page, last week. 213.137.65.242 (talk) 20:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * See the lists at wikt:Rhymes:French or the more complete French version, wikt:fr:Annexe:Rimes en français. Even the country's name is there, France /fʁɑ̃s/. --Theurgist (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)