Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 March 24

= March 24 =

An/a style question
When looking at, say, English, mainstream linguists will tend to write of verb phrases, preposition phrases, noun phrases, and more. Or of a VP, a PP -- uh, and would it be "a NP" (backed by the claim that this will be read as "a noun phrase") or "an NP" (backed by the claim that this will be read as "an enpee")?

My question is both wider and narrower than it looks. Wider, because it's not specific to linguistics: "NP" was merely an example that sprung to mind; one could just as well illustrate this minor conundrum with an example from mechanical engineering or wherever. Narrower, because I'm wondering what, if anything, the MOS prescribes for use here in en:WP; and I (sleepily?) can't find this minor matter mentioned there. (If MOS doesn't prescribe, I'll happily choose for myself.)

Though I'll very soon disappear from the interwebs for a couple of days.... Hoary (talk) 01:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think it is a MOS issue, any more than the rule by which we write "a unicorn" but (in American English) "an herb". The choice of "a" versus "an" is governed by the pronunciation of the following word (except, in an old-fashioned style still followed by some, for a few select words like "historical"). And MOS is not about pronunciation. --Lambiam 03:34, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If we Yanks pronounced the "h" in "herb", we would say "a herb". And if we pronounced the mythical beast like "UHN-icorn" instead of "YOON-icorn", we would say "an unicorn". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * "governed by the pronunciation of the following word . . . (except, in an old-fashioned style still followed by some, for a few select words like "historical".
 * This 'style' (at least as used by older BrE RP-aspirant Brits like myself) is also governed by pronunciation: if the initial-h word begins with a stressed syllable, e.g. "history", the 'h' is pronounced and the preceding article is "a"; if it begins with an unstressed syllable, e.g. "historical", the 'h' is not pronounced and the article is "an". Its usage is particular to certain combinations of regional accent, class and register. It might hearken back to the Victorian and Edwardian eras when the upper and educated classes all spoke (or purported to speak) French and imitated the French treatment of initial 'h'.
 * It is of course at odds with other modes of speech: in my un-conscious default spoken register, derived from Cockney, initial 'h' is never pronounced and is always preceded by "an", but I would never write in that register unless deliberately representing it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.64.160.67 (talk) 10:11, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I think that if a writer refers to "an NP", they want it to be read as such. They know that the reader probably knows what an NP is, but that's kinda beside the point. The words and symbols actually in the text, and their pronunciation, not the pronunciation of the words those symbols represent, govern the choice of a or an.
 * Of course, these days, many internet users and actual human beings in live conversation do away with "an" entirely. "A" suffices for all subjects - a apple, a orange, a apocalypse, and other soul-destroying utterances. Global Tin Ear Syndrome, I call it. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  02:33, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "The corn is as high as a elephant's eye..." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:12, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Charles Dickens told us that "The law is a ass"... AnonMoos (talk) 21:41, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * See Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 February 8. Deor (talk) 22:24, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This came up a couple of months ago, see the discussion here. --Viennese Waltz 07:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Well, my "couple of days" of absence dragged out for an extra day, for one reason and another. Thank you all for your input. I'm sorry I hadn't realized that the matter had already been discussed; especial thanks to Viennese Waltz for pointing this out both helpfully and with possibly undeserved politeness. -- Hoary (talk) 10:22, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No apology required; querents are certainly not expected to search through the archives to see if a topic has been covered in the past. Searching for a topic involving the words "a" and "an" would be a challenge indeed. I only happened to remember the previous discussion because I was the one who launched it. --Viennese Waltz 12:10, 27 March 2023 (UTC)