Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 June 14

= June 14 =

Kirinomitake
Is the Japanese term for Chorioactis (キリノミタケ kirinomitake) a kana-only name or can be written also in kanji? 87.19.45.23 (talk) 05:07, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Although it's exceedingly rare, I did find mention online of a kanji reading of the name as 桐の実茸. This literally translates to "empress tree seed pod mushroom." The Native Plant Society of Texas has a blog post and video that corroborates this meaning, explaining that the mushroom might indeed bear a superficial resemblance to the seed pod of the empress tree, although it is unclear what the source for their claim is. GalacticShoe (talk) 05:17, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It looks vaguely like the five-lipped calyx, but not like the two-winged seed pod. --Lambiam 08:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

== How many chemical elements start with the same letter in the romanization of all of these languages: English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Danish, Indonesian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese ==

Use the most common romanization, e.g. Pinyin for Chinese, Hepburn romanization for Japanese, Revised Romanization of Korean for Korean.

For example, element 56:


 * English: Barium
 * French: Baryum
 * German: Barium
 * Italian: Bario
 * Spanish: Bario
 * Danish: Barium
 * Indonesian: Barium
 * Russian: Барий -> Barïy
 * Chinese: 钡 -> Bèi
 * Japanese: バリウム -> Bariumu
 * Korean: 바륨 -> Balyum
 * Vietnamese: Bari

All of them start with the letter B, thus element 56 is a such element.

However, for element 19, English is potassium, start with P, German is kalium, start with K, Chinese is 钾 (jǐa), start with J, Japanese is カリウム (kariumu), start with K, there are J, K, P among them, thus element 19 is not a such element. 220.132.216.52 (talk) 08:34, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It seems extremely unlikely that someone has examined this already, but you can figure it out yourself by visiting the List of chemical elements articles for each of those languages, harvesting the relevant bits of data and doing a comparison in Excel or a similar program. Matt Deres (talk) 13:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I guess the answer would depend on whether C and K would be counted as the same letter, and similar details. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:02, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * C and K are not the same letter, neither are L and R, thus, for example, element 57 is not a such element, since its English name is lanthanum (start with L) but its Japanese name is ランタン -> rantan (start with R). 220.132.216.52 (talk) 19:48, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If that's the criterion you have chosen. It does feel like a rather eurocentric approach, though. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 09:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * In some languages there are variant spellings. Are you picking Calcium or Kalzium for the German name of element 20? Are you picking hassio or assio for the Italian name of element 108? Double sharp (talk) 15:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why there may be two spellings? Is the German name of element 53 (Iod or Jod) a similar example? 220.132.216.52 (talk) 00:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It depends on whether the Latin spelling is kept verbatim, or if the spelling is adapted to what is common in the language, e.g. avoiding lone c in German or silent h in Italian. And yes, Iod/Jod is another example. There is also Bismut/Wismut in German (b follows Latin, but w follows Middle High German). Double sharp (talk) 13:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ne, Mg, Mn, Ni, Nb, Mo, Ba, Pr, Nd, Pm, Sm, Gd, Tb, Er, Ta, Tl, Po, At, Ac, Th, Pa, Np, Md, No, Db, Bh, (Hs), Mt, Ds, Nh, Mc, Ts. Burzuchius (talk) 15:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ta is not a such element, since the English name (Tantalum) starts with T, but the Chinese name (钽 -> Dàn) starts with D. 220.132.216.52 (talk) 04:23, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, 钽 is pronounced tǎn. Double sharp (talk) 08:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If nihonium was named japonium, then it would not be such element (? 118.170.29.85 (talk) 11:00, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * News media and such often use different, not necessarily systematic, methods of romanization than the scientific literature. There is no clear criterion for assigning a measure to how "common" a romanization method is; the relative popularity may change over time. --Lambiam 04:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Some people feel strongly the opposite way, but once again Hanyu Pinyin's orthography shines (while messing up the premise of your question) Remsense  诉  09:14, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not really Hànyǔ Pīnyīn's fault, but I do wish that more people would follow the OP and quote Pīnyīn transcriptions with tone marks. If Vietnamese can have its tones preserved when quoted, why shouldn't Mandarin? I like to be able to pronounce names I read. :) Double sharp (talk) 15:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I felt the same way very strongly when I started learning Chinese! Now I find them a teensy bit tiring on the eyes when used for long stretches—selfishly, it helps that I know which tones nondiacritical pinyin should be much of the time now, sometimes even without the characters if I'm lucky.
 * It would help a lot if tone 3 used a dot below or something other than the caron—which is too easily misread as the macron, and vice versa. Remsense 诉  15:47, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that might not be a bad idea. Like I said, my problem with toneless pinyin is really about proper names, where it is impossible to guess (Shanxi/Shaanxi is the first example that came to mind). In long stretches of text it is indeed unnecessary. Double sharp (talk) 07:32, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I want to add more languages in my question, however, for some languages such as Arabic, I don’t know its romanization, also I found that, in Spanish language, element 28 contains the letter Q, and in Danish language, element 26 starts with the letter J, and in German language, elements seem to be able to start with any Latin letter: 80 (Quecksilber), 53 (Jod), 74 (Wolfram), 1 (Wasserstoff), 54 (Xenon), 23 (Vanadium), are there other languages like German (i.e. there are elements starting with each of A, B, C, …, Z) Also, which languages have elements starting with J, Q, or W? If I do not want the first letter, in which languages there are elements containing each of the letters A, B, C, …, Z? In Chinese (Hanyu Pinyin), there are elements starting with the letter J, and in the cases like element 31 (jīa), it is translated from gallium, starting with G. 220.132.216.52 (talk) 00:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Dutch has jood (53), waterstof (1) and wolfraam (74), clearly related to German. No Q though; element 80 is spelled with kw. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Another question: Which chemical element starts with the most different letters in these languages? (Also use the most common romanization, e.g. Pinyin for Chinese, Hepburn romanization for Japanese, Revised Romanization of Korean for Korean), I think that the answer should be the “ancient” elements, i.e. the elements 6, 16, 26, 29, 47, 50, 79, 80, 82? 220.132.216.52 (talk) 01:00, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Question: Which languages translate elements 11, 19, 51, 74 by {Natrium, Kalium, Stibium, Wolfram}, and which languages translate them by {Sodium, Potassium, Antimony, Tungsten}? 220.132.216.52 (talk) 01:04, 18 June 2024 (UTC)