Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 May 27

= May 27 =

Root vs rowt
The standard American pronunciation of "route" is, as I understand it, /rowt/.

So, why do people sing of getting their kicks on "Root" 66, rather than Rowt 66? -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Both pronunciations occur in American English. I would say that when "route" occurs before a number, the "oo" pronunciation is preferred, while in a phrase such as "postal route", the "ow" pronunciation would be preferred, at least in my speech. AnonMoos (talk) 02:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've heard it both ways as a prefix to a highway number, even by the same individual. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, same. I think the standard is that there is no standard. Matt Deres (talk) 20:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Add another vote to the "both ways occur in virtually all circumstances" column. In more detail, it is always "Root" 66 (other, less famous, roads can vary), but mail delivery in the country is by rural "rowts". Other than those two (very specific) examples, I come across (and use) both versions fairly commonly. I would probably ask someone what "root" they took to get somewhere, but would also ask that a message get "rowted" to the proper person. But the oppsite usages would not surprise me at all. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 22:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's been my experience with NA English: "root" is the pronunciation for nouns; "rowt" for verbs. Folly Mox (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * And that box that gets you internet access.... is that a rooter or a rowter? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Despite the tossup between root and rowt for route, everyone I know/have asked (a sample of people that is mostly American) pronounces router as rowt-er. GalacticShoe (talk) 23:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In British English a router is pronounced "rowter", but a router is pronounced "rooter". DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In America, I've always heard the electronic device pronounced "rowter". Thought I can see why "rooter" makes more sense etymologically. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In Australia they seem to say "rowter" for router, possibly because of the usual meaning of the word root. Strangely though, road numbers are referred as "roots" not "rowts". Router is pronounced "rowter". TrogWoolley (talk) 09:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I suppose "My router keeps going down" would mean something else entirely if they used the "rooter" pronunciation. DuncanHill (talk) 21:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm always amused by senior US Army officers pronouncing route as a homophone of rout; "a panicked, disorderly and undisciplined retreat of troops from a battlefield". The potential for misunderstanding seems obvious. Alansplodge (talk) 16:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, rout and route have the same etymology. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:38, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary gives an entirely different etymology for rout. --Lambiam 08:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Note that the square root of 66 is an irrational number, 8.12403840464... Driving an infinite time should give a precise result at either end. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * English itself often seems irrational. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:21, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Based on 40 years of working with the woodworking power tool, with the scars to prove it, I can attest that the power tool is always pronounced "rowter" in the United States. Cullen328 (talk) 06:28, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Obviously because it is rout + -er, not route + -er. --Lambiam 07:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks, all, for the enlightenment. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

On British v American pronunciation differences, The Wordy wise feature in the Daily Mail of 23 May was contributed by a Derbyshire reader:


 * THE BALL GUY - footie fanatic.
 * THE CALL GUY - town crier.
 * THE GALL GUY - what a cheek!
 * THE HALL GUY - Albert habitué
 * THE MALL GUY - shopping precinct denizen...

I thought that the pronunciation of "mall" implicit in the rhyme was an Americanism, but now I'm not so sure. 2A00:23D0:492:6301:207B:B2D7:62D2:2142 (talk) 11:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Australians are not particularly known for adopting American ways, but the above is the only way we have ever said "mall". In fact, the first time I heard the Mall (in London) pronounced to rhyme with pal, gal, Sal, shall or Val, I thought, These silly English people don't even know how to speak their own language. The things one discovers. -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  01:38, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The term "mall" referring to a shopping centre is short for "shopping mall". The first uses of "shopping mall" were in the US, referring to a "pedestrian mall" lined on both sides with shops. Pedestrian malls were popular in the 60s, and that is when the term "shopping mall" came to be used in the sense of shopping centre. It was generalized to shopping centres in other forms than pedestrian malls when this type became less popular, the first step being the covered shopping mall. As pedestrian malls became rare, the remaining "malls" were shopping malls, so dropping the redundant qualifier "shopping" was a natural step. When the UK use of the term "mall" for a shopping centre was copied from the US, so was its pronunciation, but only for this new sense. --Lambiam 06:11, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So, potentially, there could be a /mawl/ located on The /mæl/? -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)