Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 May 29

= May 29 =

Jargon
What is the etymology of calling proposals/requests motions in some formal contexts? I move to/motion to dismiss, I move for [something I hope judge allows], parliamentary motion and so on. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:18, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The etymologies of "move" and "motion" may help. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In the United States and perhaps elsewhere, Robert's Rules of Order has had enormous influence on such terminology outside the context of courts and legislatures. The section on "Motions" has lots of useful links. Cullen328 (talk) 05:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * One pedantic technicality: "move" is a verb, "motion" is a noun. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Only in their technical parliamentary senses. Both words, move and motion, can be used in non-technical senses as nouns as well as as verbs. --Lambiam 07:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Paris, Peru.....Iraq, Iran....
There is a somewhat slow-moving discussion at Talk:Don't You Worry 'bout a Thing about the pronunciation (and possible meaning) of a word in Stevie's spoken introduction of the song. The neologism in question occurs at 25 seconds. Anybody know what it is? There are unlikely to be any RS sources for this. I suspect Wonder himself wanted most of that jive to sound as impenetrable as possible. So maybe we shouldn't even try. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd never heard the song before, but I listened to it and it definitely sounds like Eurasia to me. A K sound would be easy to pick out, and he doesn't enunciate K at all.  I agree with all you wrote on the talk page, and it seems daft for your nemesis to assume that Wonder just picked the word "Ukraingia" out of a hat (or an atlas). --Viennese Waltz 10:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's also a little surprising to be told that he just "looked at a map". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Good point. I wonder (no pun intended) if that has even occurred to the other editor. --Viennese Waltz 10:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he used a tactile map? Alansplodge (talk) 11:28, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes. Or maybe, being a musical creative genius, he just made it all up in his head, in the studio, on the spur of the moment? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Martinevans123: I agree. I've added a comment to the article's talk page to that effect. Bazza 7 (talk) 13:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree it sounds like Eurasia: a technical and uncommon term but a very unspecific location, achieving the effect of self-exaggerated worldliness. Also Ukraine will have been labelled "Ukrainian SSR" in maps at the time. Meanwhile the second item might indeed be Beirut rather than Peru (with an unenunciated or unreleased final /t/), both because of how the first syllable sounds and because of the geographic locale. --Theurgist (talk) 22:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've always thought it might be Beiru'. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC) ...you might want to attempt an IPA transcription of that introductory passage that follows the opening "Eek! Eek!".... but just /ˈwɔt͡ʃjɔɹˈsɛlf/


 * I don't really hear any diphthong, there. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


 * But neither is it reduced to [ə]. Also, unlike the initial consonant of Paris, the one here doesn't seem to be aspirated; for pairs like /p/ and /b/, the aspiration or lack thereof is said to be more of a distinctive feature than the actual voicing. But then, this syllable is unstressed, which may have neutralized that. --Theurgist (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2024 (UTC)


 * As it's in a pseudo-Spanish accent and in alliterative wordplay, I still think Peru sounds more likely. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I suspect Wonder was slightly less concerned than we are about aspirated consonants and diphthongs. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:39, 9 June 2024 (UTC)