Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 August 1

Dr. hugo eckener/ captains german airships 1930's
i am trying to locate the burial sites for the following famous captains of german airships: dr.hugo eckener; ernst lehmann; max pruss.can you assist me & much thanks for your help.

david helms Removed e-mail address

Apollo Group?
Has anyone ever heard of a company called Apollo Plastic Systems or the Apollo group and if so what do they do? There based in North Yorkshire, England by the way. - Thanks Joel
 * Do you mean the company that is located in Scarborough, with a Managing Director called "Shaun Pollard" and whose place of business is marked on this map? If so I have never heard of them. I don't think the Apollo Group will be of much interest to you as I can't find a Pollard listed for them. And by the way, 81.158.83.44 what is your obsession with Pollard? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 08:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Who shot him!?
Does Anyone have any idea who the man was who killed the French man who shot Captain Horatio Nelson? Thanks For any help on this subject


 * I haven't bother to read it myself, but you could look at Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson. Jon513 03:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * See my answer at the next question. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

J P
Eya rite who woz jack pollard?? Thanks n dat
 * Jack Pollard woz a Aussie author n cricket historian. Or a British engineer. No prob sa. Hyenaste (tell) 01:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Iz dis Inglish? Whoa iz us!  JackofOz 03:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The correct question is who is "John Pollard" and of course he's the man that shot the Frenchman that shot Nelson from the question above. We don't have an article on him (John Pollard is not there) but you can see here and here. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * plz suitly emphazi n dat, ya? --Howie da Trane 08:14, 1 Aug '06 (UTC)
 * Was Pollard related to "The Man That Shot Liberty Valance"? JackofOz 12:23, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks you for youn help people.
 * He exists now as John Pollard (1787-1868). CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 19:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Can I keep track of my userpage?
In other words is there a possible way that I can keep track of the amount of people who read my userpage? -- The Great Llama   (speak to the Llama!)
 * no. While there is a feature in the mediawiki software for a page counter on every page, on wikipedia it has been disabled because of the great server load that would entail. Jon513 01:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks you for your help people.


 * oh here's a link Technical FAQ Jon513 16:22, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Six days war : When was the picture of Yossi Ben Hanan taken?
Hello,

The Yossi_Ben_Hanan article does not say when the famous picture of him in the Suez Canal was taken. I was interested in the progress of the Israelis in the Six Day war, and found it a bit weird that the Six-Day_War at best gives 'june 1967' as a date for the pictures.

I asked in humanities but maybe this is a better place for this question. I got no answer there.

Can anyone help? Thanks, Evilbu 21:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I failed to find it at http://www.timelifepictures.com/. Perhaps your best chance is to ask them. Still it is clear that it was taken in between  june 7, 1969 and june 23, 1969. It was taken either from the 7 to 10 (durring the war) or from the 10 onwards (after the war).  My guess it that it was after the war.  Jon513 11:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

funnel web spider
Hi,I live in the USA on the south eastern part,I have a large black spider on My porch that has spun a funnel shaped web,I have never seen one like this,I never see it in the daylight and to be honest it has me a bit unsettled,I have taken a picture of it and it actually stayed on top of the funnel for Me to take several shots.Can someone please help Me.Thank You. Angela Kaye


 * Does your spider look like this one? If so, you could have an Out Of Place Australian Funnel Web Spider, whose bite can be deadly. It would be a long way from home though, so it is more likely you have a far less poisonous relative.  Still, I wouldn't handle it if I were you.  --Roisterer 04:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There are a number of different funnel-web spiders. Take a look at the various articles and links. Most of them are harmless.--Shantavira 10:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Chip Chewer
So a long time ago (in the 90's) I was a little kid with simple taste in games. There was this great game I liked to play called Chip Chewer. My dad had downloaded it for me, I believe off of tucows or something very similar. It was basically a Pac-man ripoff with a little purple guy with eyes on a stalk, but I really liked it. I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get a copy? (And no, it's not Chip's Challenge. I have that one, I know they're different).

Thanks in advance, ¡209.180.29.73 05:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)!
 * See here for Chip Chewer and several others. And this appears to be online games. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Template Trouble
I am not sure where to ask for help on this troubleshooting issue with a template, but perhaps someone here can direct me to the right area of wikipedia. I have been trying to create a template to allow easy surfing between entries on U.S. Cavalry units, but I have trouble getting the text to wrap around it rather than start in line with the template. Consequently, wherever the template is placed in the entry, that is where the entry begins (instead of at the top and then wrapping around the template when it gets to it). An example is better than words: visit 1st Cavalry Division (United States) and then see if you can fix the problem in the template at Template:Cavalry. Thanks, User:Atfyfe
 * I think that it would need to be included with Template:Infobox Military Unit to work. Or you could just fiddle around with it to fit it where you want it to appear, see User:CambridgeBayWeather/Sandbox. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

circumcision
hi im 14 and i am curious if anyone knows how to tell if youve been circumcised? and if im not circumcised how can i get circumcised at my age? because i hate having the skin covering the tip of my penis. thanxx kevin

( im kinda new at this whole wikipedia thing )
 * Why not take a look at Circumcision and foreskin. They both have some excellent links to read up on as to it being a good idea or not. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you're not sure whether you're circumcised or not, circumcision is probably not the thing you need to be thinking about. If you turn out to be uncircumcised, before you do anything about it, be very sure this is what you want to do.  Talk to a doctor, or an adult male you can trust.  If you have it done now, you may live to regret it when you're an adult.  Adults who want to be circumcised can always go off and have the operation, but if it's already been done, and you wished it hadn't been, you can't grow it back.  JackofOz 07:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Mother Nature (sometimes referred to as 'God') must have put it there for a reason. Don't insult Mother Nature (or God, if that's your thing). Of course someone is going to throw an appendix at me now. Thank Mother Nature this is all virtual. :) DirkvdM 08:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey Kevin! Agreeing with everything everyone else has said, you maybe want to talk to an adult about why you hate the skin covering the tip of your penis. They may have other suggestions for how to deal with this. A doctor, nurse or counsellor of some sort would probably give you an answer with less of the embarassment you might feel telling others. And if you put ~ at the end of your post, it signs your username or IP address along with the date, so we know when you posted and that you're the same person who posted earlier. Skittle 10:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I was circumcized at 10 due to an infection and I can tell you it is not a pretty business. It requires a medical operation with anasthesia, after which your entire penis is wrapped in gauze for about two weeks, and urinating is extremely painful.  After it heals and urinating is not painful the gauze must literally be pulled off (which by now has bonded with your skin) and is one of the most painful experiences I have ever had in my entire life only behind being stabbed in the leg with a butcher knife.  I would suggest against it if you can avoid it.--69.138.61.168 02:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Woah. That's rough. --Proficient 20:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Is this Martha Stewart?
Right now I'm writing a new article: "Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch!" I found a good source saying Martha Stewart did a Tareyton ad in 1964. The weird thing is...I think I actually found said ad. Honest opinion: Do you think it's her? She seems to have the same blonde hair, facial structure, and brown eyes that Martha does. The only thing that's making me think it's maybe not her is that the woman's nose looks a tad smaller than Martha's. Input, please! For reference purposes, that ad was in the September 1964 issue of Playboy. Do alert me on my talk page when you make a conclusion. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 08:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like her, in my opinion. --Cam 12:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Could be. Difficult to tell. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Matthew Mcchounghey in superman returns
i just read on a website called notstarring.com that mcchounghey was offered the part of both superman and lex luthor in the film superman returns if this is true than it should be included in the matthew mcchounghey article i would have put this on the talk page but i just don`t know how.
 * I presume you mean Matthew McConnaughey. JackofOz 10:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How definitive is the site? What are their sources?  Can they verify their information?  If not, it doesn't meet out requirements at WP:RS.  User:Zoe|(talk) 20:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Table-top speaker (near-field monitor) stands
Does any kind Wikipedian know where I might be able to get a pair of these in the UK? Google and other searches have thus far revealed nothing! They'll be used to support a pair of M-Audio BX5 speakers at about 20cm above the desk. Cheers, Neilius 10:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * studiospares, maybe?


 * Unfortunately not, I have the catalogue and there are no speaker stands like this in there, thanks for the suggestion though. :( --Neilius 09:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ebay perhaps? --Proficient 21:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Identifying an Atari game?
Hi, I came across this picture: http://www.rombay.com/images/center_nav/roms.jpg

Can anyone tell me what the name of the game is and what system it was produced for?--195.93.21.101 10:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know the sytem, but I think the game is called Roms &mdash; M in  un  Spiderman • Review Me 11:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason the filename of the picture is called "roms.jpg" is because it was used to link to a ROM database. --172.206.212.40 13:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Staring at the little picture and trying to interpret the blurred pixels into something recognisable is a lot like playing an atari game. The cart says O.B.S.E.S.S. in blue, see here. MeltBanana  15:23, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

How
How can someone be in a relationship with someone for 5 years, commit to spend the rest of her life with you and then suddenly and completely out of the blue leave for someone she just met? How can someone be so cold and heartless to someone she claimed to love for 5 years?Sindweller 12:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * do we need a new category on the reference desk for retorical questions?Jon513 14:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Women are like that. So are men, probably - I wouldn't know. --Howard Train 16:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is something incredablly wrong with this. How could anyone do this to someone they love?  Doing so is more morally dispicable than any other type of harming someone, because in doing this, someone can hurt someone so much more. Sindweller 17:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You're mixing up reasoning (which is done up in the brain) with 'love' (which is hormones wreaking havoc a little further down). DirkvdM 18:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not wrong to leave someone. One should do so in a way that causes the least hurt, but one does not need to stay in a relationship that they do not want to please someone else. Jon513 19:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you did something wrong and she just left because the other person could offer her more material worth. --Proficient 21:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Relationships
Why do people bother? If a relationship can fall apart after devoting yourself to buidling it for a long, long time, why would anyone put themselves in a situation like that--where all their efforts can be destroyed by the whim of another? It makes no more sense than building a house on a flood plane Sindweller 12:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If you have no choice but to live on a floodplane, and you want a house, you have little alternative. Think about it. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Do what i have done, I quit woman, they are just too much trouble and bad for my health mentally physically and emotionally. And just keep it together, hearts and thoughts fade with time. In South Africa there is a saying: Sterkte. It simply meens Strength. But does not translate well.

In England we have a similar saying: bollocks. --Howard Train 16:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Is that where the English get their strength from then? DirkvdM 18:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. The Irish, of course, get theirs from Guinness.  --LarryMac 19:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

All relationships involve a degree of risk; there is no guarantee they will work out. But that is also true when it comes to investing money, starting a new job, learning a musical instrument, and lots of other things. Some people are highly risk-averse and prefer not to face the prospect of failure. Others consider that certain risks are worth taking, and allow their decisions about relationships to be governed by their heart more than their head. If this were not so, the human race may have died out a long time ago. JackofOz 03:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * But relationships require a much larger investment, expose you to more harm, are more volitale and completely dependent on one other person... Investments for example, can be spread out, and are not subject to being destroyed by one girl... Sindweller 13:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's all true, and it is scary. But so is crossing the road, yet we all do it.  The rewards of a magnificent long-lasting relationship far outweigh the risks.  You can argue all day for why you shouldn't enter into a relationship, but at the end of the day you'll be very tired, and lonely, and not getting any sex, and not sharing your life with someone in a way where the whole is much, much more than the sum of the parts.  You may think that's a reasonable way of living your life.  JackofOz 23:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's all subjective what you think. --Proficient 21:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Bempton
Does anyone have any knowledge on the underground base at Bempton, North Yorkshire, England. If so can they please tell me about it. Thanks for the help
 * My Google-fu is mighty! Check out this site as a starting point. There are more links on there. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Stock Valuation
Hi

Can you tell me how to value a stock?

Regards KK
 * Many web sites, like Yahoo, offer sections where you can get the trading value of a stock. Note that it changes minute to minute. Notinasnaid 15:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the response. I am not looking for trading price. How do I make sure that I am not giving much more than the stock is worth?

Regards KK

I value stocks by summing up the value of their future earnings. It is difficult to estimate future earnings though. If a company earns $1/share per year I would say it is worth about $10/share. If that same company is earning $1/share but I expect it will increase earnings every year by 10%, it might be worth $15/share. Sindweller 16:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Stock valuation is a complex pseudoscience. (And calling it "pseudo" just made 1,000 economists very angry at me.) If you want to own stock I recommend buying it from a reliable high-volume stock market. That way there are lots of people who continuously form a consensus price for the stock using all publicly known information about the company (i.e. the holy grail of an efficient market.) Weregerbil 20:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * People will tell you different things. Check web sites for the values. --Proficient 21:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sock Valuation
Hi

Can you tell me how to value a sock?

Regards DB (&mdash; D a  niel  (‽) 17:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC))


 * Take it to the bazaars of Tiraq, where the wise old men tell you its worth from the ancient scriptures. smurrayinch e  ster( User ), ( Talk ) 18:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Just one? Depends who you want to sell it to. Does he have a patch over one eye and a parrot on his shoulder? DirkvdM 18:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Your first WP:SOCK will be worth, say, one day's block. Depends on how abusively you use it. Weregerbil 20:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the response. I am not looking for trading price. How do I make sure that I am not giving much more than the sock is worth?

Regards DB (&mdash; D   a    niel  (‽) 13:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC))
 * Sell them. AllanHainey 15:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Check the sock markets. - THE GREAT GAVINI  {T-C} 08:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Is it a Right or a Left sock?

Nominal roll
Was there any type of Nominal Roll kept regarding civilians who joined the Woolseley    Expedition as my Grandfather joined  them in Northern Ontario? If so where may I obtain this information?

R Cooper 
 * do you mean the Wolseley Expedition? Jon513 19:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

How to become an investment banker
Wasn't sure where to put this so it ended up here: How do you become an investment banker? Does it include getting an MBA or...? Jack Daw 18:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This video offers some great tips; beware of exploding cows and pirates.


 * Yes you should get an MBA if you possibly can. If you have not yet obtained an undergraduate degree, then a degree in accountancy would be the one to get in addition. I have never been an investment banker myself, but I knew someone who did. He was probably chosen by that particular bank as he had languages skills also. On the other hand Nick Leeson did not have a degree but started being a bank clerk and worked his way up. He said that there were a huge number of applicants for one of the jobs he got. I expect that MBA or no MBA, there will be competition, but even if you dont become an investment banker, accountancy qualifications or an MBA should lead to a well paid job of some kind. You could try looking for job vacancies to see what is required - I'm not sure where these would be advertised - you could try the Financial Times etc. You'd probably have to take junior job for several years.
 * A look at the Nick Leeson article suggests that he was either a graduate or an undergraduate student at some time. From what I now remember of his autobiography there were in fact several jobs in which he succeeded despite there being many other applicants. Regarding finding out about job vacancies, you could try scrutinising the websites of various banks to see what they say about vacancies and careers. Writing to the Personnel Officer about a career with the bank, and asking about internships, probably wouldnt do any harm even before you get an MBA. I expect that many jobs for investment bankers are in fact obtained from internal promotion rather than being advertised. Remember also that, at least in the UK, some MBAs have more prestige than others. In the UK the two year London Business School MBA has the most prestige.


 * The book Liar's Poker covers similar ground with the author becoming a stock broker (in actual fact he was just selling stock to people by telephone etc). I expect a search on Amazon for this and Nick Leeson's book would provide several other books written by people who have done something like what you hope to do. Good luck.

Access
Who has access to the wikipedia database??

I need something of mine hacked because the password I chose for User:Qho now says the password is wrong.

How crazy the password list I set out for Qho does not work and I put down the 2nd password it the list of 4.

HELP please or is this a Q. for the ref. dsk.?

Missingno 18:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * On the log on page you can click "email new password" and that should solve all your problems. This is the reference desk, by the way. David Sneek 19:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear David

 * My password will not allow my to access my account.
 * It is like someone came in and changed my password.
 * Because I only had 4 passwords to chose from.
 * And any way password manager says what my password is yet it will not let me access my true account.
 * -- Missingno ·(talk)(contribs) 20:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * --Missingno(talk) (contribs) 20:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And if you click "E-mail new password", do you get an email? You must have given an email address when you signed up... David Sneek 20:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It is not true that he must have given an email when he signed up. Many people don't, however it leaves them in situations like this. I suggest to all reading this to add an email address so it doesn't happen to you. &mdash;WAvegetarian•(talk) 23:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think David's point was that if he wanted to have a new password emailed to him, he "must have given an email when he signed up." Otherwise it won't work. That's how I read it, anyway. –RHolton ≡ – 23:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear Missingno,
 * What do you mean when you say password list? When creating a user name, you should have had a free choice of passwords, anything you could type. Where is this list of 4 passwords? Skittle 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I took that to mean that Missingno has a list of 4 passwords that s/he consistently uses. digfarenough (talk) 17:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I was hoping, but it looked to me like it could be read two ways. I was wondering if these passwords could have been compromised in some way, giving a source to the 'hacker'. Skittle 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Robert Moton High School, Westminister, Maryland
Robert Moton High School was the only black high school in Carroll County, Maryland. What happened to it?
 * according to this it seems that they now allow white people to attend also. Jon513 20:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

SVG animation
Does anyone know of a free (doesn't have to be libre free, just gratis) program which can do SVG animation. Preferably one which isn't too complex. That said, it doesn't need to be idiot proof, just easy to at least learn to use. But even that said anything gratis which conforms to the SVG standard would be greatly appreciated. I don't even need it to have the entire SVG specs, as long as what it does have conforms to SVG standard. - Рэд  хот  20:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look like it. Since most players and editors are still trying to get full static support, it doesn't surprise me that animation development in the format is still lagging behind. --Fastfission 21:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it. There was one that never moved near alpha. It was called Beez or something like that. It was good, but couldn't save or load!! But by good, I mean that the interface was easy, but had what would probably be the most needed features. - Рэд  хот  10:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Question
what is the URL for the site?
 * If you're referring to Wikipedia, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/ for the English. For any others, put its language code in place of en eg: fr for French and de for German. Is that what you meant? - Рэд  хот  21:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you're asking generically, the URL is the address of the website. It is contained in the address bar at the top of your browser (most likely Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox, Opera, or the like) and almost always begins http:// . Z iggurat 23:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * See URL. DirkvdM 11:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * www.wikipedia.org --Proficient 21:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

4 x 4 Auto Vs Manual
Which is better for 4WD off-roading: manual or automatic transmission?
 * Personally, I think I'd go for a manual, as you generally get more opportunity to vary the power and torque getting to the wheels with a standard than with an automatic, for those times when the back end is dangling off a cliff and you really, really want lots of low-end power. Tony Fox (arf!) 02:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't have to be that extreme. If your wheels are spinning in mud, an automatic gear would think you're moving along quite nicely and shift up gear. when you really want low gear. So I'd say a 4WD with automatic gear is a fake piece of crap for yuppies who just want to impress their neighbours. That said, the Jeep Wagoneer stems from 1963, so that was for yuppies avant la lettre.
 * Btw, if you have to ask this, you shouldn't do any serious off-roading and therefore don't need a 4WD, so there's no point in the question. So Why did I answer it then? Well, it could have been an academic question and anyway I like to spew what knowledge I have. :) DirkvdM 11:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also the questioner could be new to offroading and looking to learn. DJ Clayworth 15:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Dirk should note that there are reasons to want 4WD without off-roading. I loved dropping mine into 4WD in the snow. Rmhermen 20:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Dirk is entitled to his opinion (...if you have to ask this, you shouldn't do any serious off-roading ...) but it is liable to bring the WP Ref Desk into disrepute. Nobody is born with all the knowledge they ever need, and it is certainly wise to ask such questions before just attempting potentially dangerous activities.  If a person can't ask a simple question here, of all places, without getting abused, where can they ask?  JackofOz 23:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Manual as long as you know how to operate one correctly. Nothing like the smell of burning clutch after you got stuck in the snow, mud, etc. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's that clutch burning that makes me think that auto could be better. What if the manual driver shifts gear while, say, crossing a flood. Does this open up the transmission allowing water to flood in? Plus DirkvdM, the original question seems like a fairly straightforward one to ask. Wheter or not you think that the questionner is worthy of owning a 4WD or not is completely irrelevant--Downunda 03:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If you start a maneouvre like that you should try to get the gear right at the start so you don't need to switch gears because you need to keep the momentum. Which is another reason not to have automatic gear, because that might kick in at an inconvenient moment, but then Tony sort of already said that.
 * My derogative remark was inspired by the yuppie status of 4WD's and a feature like automatic gear is a clear sign of that. A 4WD is a special piece of equipment for special purposes. Most definitely not for ordinary on-road driving. Of course they can drive on roads, but that's not what they are primarily built for. Most people will never ever go off road and when they do they had better hire one that is really suited for the job. It's not like you're likely to run into such a situation (for snow use snow chains). To operate a 4WD you really need to know what you're doing. For example, accidentally driving in 4WD on a road will ruin the car and turn it into a gas-guzzler. And the clutch burning is another example. I once saw some cocky idiot do that and what pissed me off was that I had to share in the expense. Why would someone want a 4WD? If you have to ask a simple question like this, that means you haven't even come around to the important issues so it's probably not something you need. Then again, it may be that the questioneer doesn't plan on buying a 4WD and is just asking an academic question, in which case there is no problem at all. :) DirkvdM 08:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Manual, without a shadow of a doubt. Off roading requires a lot of control over torque and wheel speed.  Engine breaking is a very important part of off roading which is not as effective with an auto and you can sometimes be required to start the engine with the vehicle in gear which is not possible on autos.  Most 4x4's that are actually capable of going off road (i.e. not BMW's and the like) have at least two gear levers and some early Land Rovers have as many as four.


 * Several gear levers? Do you mean shifitng the whole transmission into a different gear (or how should I say this?), thus doubling the amount of gears? BUt 4 levers? How many gears would that give? And is something like that necessary for a car? I know trucks have them, but they are way heavier. DirkvdM 18:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * They've all got the usual gear lever then (apart from the very newest ones) they've got a high/low ratio lever (which may also operate the central diff lock) which would double the number of gears (although low ratio 3rd is almost the same as high ratio first). The early land rovers (series II, IIA, IIB and III) have the usual gear lever, the high low ratio lever (which also enables four wheel drive) and a thrid lever for enabling four wheel drive in high ratio.  In addition to this, if they are equipped with an overdrive, that adds another gear lever.  This means that (technically) they have 36 forward and 4 reverse gears. As to whether that's necessary;  for off roading you mostly just use low ratio (occasionally high ratio in four wheel drive) but you wouldn't often use the overdrive at the same time.  For road driving you usually accelerate in high ratio going 1 (optional), 2, 3, 3+overdrive, 4+overdrive. Low ratio gears are used for quite different things on trucks and off roaders.  I believe trucks have low ratio gears to help them get moving with heave loads.  Off roaders use them to slow down in a controlled way on slippery surfaces.

When does lottery have positive expected value due to rollovers?
I've only played the lottery once, as I believe its a stupidity tax.

However I am willing to play it when the expected value is more than the ticket price. That is, when the total lottery pay-out divided by the number of tickets bought is more than the ticket price. (However taking into account the chances of another rollover occuring may make this formula a little more complicated). I am referring to a UK-style National Lottery when the prizes are tax-free and paid out all at once.

The one occassion when I played the lottery was when there had been two or three rollovers so that the expected value was more than the ticket price. Surprisingly, I did win about £12 net of the ticket price. Although I am unlikely to win again, I am willing to play when there is a positive expected value.

So, how often do lotteries have a positive expected value?

And, whats the easiest and most convenient way to find out when the UK lottery(s) have a positive expected value? I don't watch much tv, but is there a website that specialises in this sort of thing for example? How many rollovers would it take for example?

I do not consider this a maths question so I'm putting it here.

Thanks --81.104.12.25 22:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is both a maths question and a sociology question. Let me explain. There are three variables and one constant (the ticket price). The control variable is the amount of money to be won. This increases with rollovers. An increase in this variable raises the amount of expected winnings per ticket if the the number of tickets remains the same. An increase also tends to raise the number of tickets sold. As the pot goes up the ticket value goes up. As pot goes up the number of tickets goes up. As the number of tickets goes up the ticket value goes down. You have to make a guess about how many people are going to actually buy tickets and how much this increase in sales offsets the rise in total winnings. There is no simple formula as there are multiple interdependent variables. &mdash;WAvegetarian•(talk) 23:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Numbers over 31 also increase your chance of a higher payout, but do not affect your chances of winning. Notinasnaid 09:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's because a lot of people use their birthdays and other dates as their numbers. Therefore the numbers 31 or less are chosen by more people than 32 or over (numbers 12 or less are chosen still more frequently). Therefore when the winning numbers include many over 31 there tend to be fewer winners than when they are under 31. DJ Clayworth 15:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * For non-Brits, the National Lottery draws six numbers at random between 1 and 49. Tickets cost 1 GBP, and the probability of winning the jackpot is one in 13,983,816. Hence the expected return is positive if the rollover (jackpot not distributed from previous drwas) exceeds 14 million pounds, which happens occasionally. Physchim62 (talk) 15:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Good answer, but this dosnt take into account that you can also win lesser amounts if you match fewer numbers, plus as I said above there is also the possibility of there being another rollover.
 * Interesting. --Proficient 21:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Why do they succeed in scaring us away?
I am 59. and have 3 children and 2 grandchildren and I strive to stay abreast of technological progress, and am not frightened to buy new products such as DVDs, CDs, MP3s, and most recently, a new Mobile Phone (I live in Scotland - (Deo Gratia)) that incorporates Digital Photography, MP3, Walkman, Internet Access, Memory Sticks, and goodness knows what else. My point is - when showing all these technological attributes to my friends, colleagues and family members, they all say, without exception, "No way", life is too complicated already - "I already have to get my 7 years old grandson to change the time on my video for British Summer Time."

Am I alone in thinking that such progress, whilst being very appealing to me, who has the time (due to retirement), is designed so as to exclude people in my general age group who are simply not prepared to suffer (and I really do mean suffer) the frustration of merely trying to transfer a picture file from a Mobile Phone to a PC and or back again?

The technological consumer market must be extremely confident in its approach to antagonising such a large (and prosperous) sector of our communities by pursuing such blatantly ageist, non-conformist, non-uniformist, and discriminatory design, marketing and merchandising policies?

Oh, and before our WP experts in such protocols as SUITLY EMPHASI jump on the bandwagon; or our other friendly and carrot-juice-quenching experts in the linguistic arts and juxtapositions pertaining between closed brackets, quotes, commas and periods join them, please just let me say this, at 59 years of age, with a brilliant pension, no mortgage, and well-invested capital reserves, I don't give a shit.

I got the money that you sad b--s can only dream of.


 * Is it your common practice to insult people who you are asking for help from? In any case, I doubt very much that they are designed to exclude anyone; the unfortunate nature of technology innovation often just isn't user-friendly regardless of age (I know just as many non-techno-savvy 20-somethings as I do 70- and 80-somethings). Z iggurat 23:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Er, S'cuse me Ziggurat - you have peremptorily missed the point (which was not too unexpected - given the immediacy of your response); You seem to have overlooked the fact that I was not actually seeking your own - or anyone else's help- I was merely making the point that the technogeeks out there in Alice in Wonderland are either in ignorance or arrogance forgetting that those non-techies such as myself, my family, and my friends are choosing by default NOT to invest our hard-earned financial resources in the magic and black arts of tech. stocks. If you need further illumination, please only ask. But please take at least 30 seconds before responding.


 * If you aren't asking for anyone's help then why are you writing this here at the reference desk? Hyenaste (tell) 23:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * hum...AOL was made for non-techies and it failed. what does that say?  Perhaps there are less of you than you think. Jon513 23:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you meant FEWER!


 * And I think you meant "SUITLY EMPHAZI"! Sorry, I must be mistaken - I thought we were volunteering thousands of hours of our time to develop an encyclopedia for all people, tech-savvy or otherwise. However, it appears we are all here to force Scottish pensioners with huge chips on their shoulders (pun intended) to buy complicated mobile phones. For a 59 year old, you have a lot to learn about maturity, take it to Slashdot instead.


 * By the way, did you need help programming your VCR for British Summer Time? We may be able to help you with that. This reference desk is for helping people with questions, not for sharing your opinion on technological progress, insulting others and grammatical nit-picking (oh, who am I kidding, it is actually). --Canley 00:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * What exactly was the question in this post? All that money that you make must've lead you to the conclusion that you do not need to read or follow the directions of the reference desk, which, ironically, you WOULD need to be able to do in order to work all of your techno-gadgets.  From a personal standpoint, though, I neither have a cell phone nor want one; it's just a matter of preference.  Damn people CALLING me all the time really annoys me to no end, also I have no need for silly pictures.  An IPOD is just as bad, gotta jam it into a pocket when you aren't using it; then you worry about dropping the stupid $300 thing and breaking it.  I do carry a Ka-bar and a Spanish-English phrasebook, though, very handy where I come from: you use the knife to protect yourself and the phrasebook to talk to the Mexicans.  --69.138.61.168 05:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Even though you haven't actually asked a question, let me attempt to answer anyway:

1) It isn't necessary to have a product that appeals to every demographic to be profitable. Devices that only appeal to the technical-savvy can still sell to millions of customers, and make billions of dollars, for their producers.

2) Now, had you asked the reverse question, "why don't more people write software and make hardware for the technically challenged", I think you would have a valid point, there is quite a market out there, which is currently underserved. In a classic example, most microwave ovens have a keypad and require you to enter functions in a specific order (read the manual) to get the damn thing to turn on.  I, however, have a microwave with only two dials, one is the timer, and one is the power level.  I close the door, turn the timer dial, and it goes.  That's the way I like it.  I can't stand when I go to use somebody else's microwave oven and have to "learn" how to use it...a device this simple should be intuitive to use.  If it needs a manual, it's too complex.

StuRat 06:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I should also address some reasons why devices the manufacturer intends to be usable by everyone only turn out to be usable by the technically savvy. One reason is that the developers and engineers are themselves technically savvy and can't easily view things from the perspective of the novice. This can be solved by bringing in focus groups of potential customers and observing what confuses them. Another reason is language difficulties. The most basic label, on an ON/OFF switch, is frequently missing, as they intend to market the same product outside the English speaking world. You can get a 0/1 label instead, in an attempt to make it understood by all languages. This method is almost certain to fail, and individual stickers should be added to label the controls in each language. Instruction manuals are frequently written by foreigners with only a vague understanding of English or, even worse, using a direct translator from another language. The results are incomprehensible gobbledygook. They need to hire competent translators. Finally, size is becoming an issue. As devices get smaller and smaller, the controls become tiny and are used for many different things. My cell phone, for example, does not have an alphabetic keypad, so I have to hit the numbers 0-9 multiple times to get the letters A-Z out of them. I guess this is just a compromise we have to take to get the size down to what will fit in a shirt pocket. Perhaps when voice recognition actually starts to work properly, this issue will go away. StuRat 07:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You may have a lot of money, but there are fewer of you. People with average incomes are so numerous that the total of their money exceeds yours. And even that doesn't matter, because you're not going to buy ten walkmans, are you? You count as just one consumer, no matter how much money you have.
 * If you'll allow me to be blunt (and judging by your style of asking you would or at least should) you're dying out. Why invest a lot of money in developing a product for which there will be fewer and fewer consumers and none in about 10 or 20 years time?
 * A better question would be "Why don't manufacturers write decent manuals?" That would be a lot easier. I suppose the answer is that consumers don't learn. They buy a product based on what the commercials tell them they can do with them, everytime forgetting that in the past again and again that turned out not to be true because they didn't understand. When buying a spiffy new product, how often do you ask to see the manual? DirkvdM 12:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Er, what's a mixed metaphor? Or a split infinitive? And is Suitly Emphazi now recognis/zed as accepted English? Or to put it another way, what's a Ka-Bar? Oh, and for those respondents who patently lack the art or science of basic comprehension and literacy (apart from StuRat who actually addresses the questions posed, for which I thank him profusely (he is clearly a prescient guy who adds value to this site), there are in fact 2 questions in my query - the first asks "Why do they succeed in scaring us away?", and the second is "Am I alone....." Over to the Geek Supporters............... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.101 (talk • contribs)


 * First you say you weren't asking for help, now you say that you asked two questions. I won't attempt to answer your section header question, because it is rather senseless, but with the interpersonal skills I've seen displayed here, then yes, you probably are alone.  A troll by any other name . . . . --LarryMac 21:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * o.o;;;;; --Proficient 21:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The title "Why do they succeed in scaring us away ?" contains a flawed assumption, that scaring away potential customers is their goal. They may, however, decide not to market to the technologically-challenged, because the cost of making devices which are easier to use would be more than the benefit in increased sales. I think globalization is partly to blame, as the larger potential international market makes the smaller, technologically-challenged market seem insignificant. StuRat 03:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't globalisation have the opposite effect? A group of consumers that was previously to small too bother about becomes large enough. Apple has a very small market share, but that doesn't matter because the market is so big. So globalisation should be an impulse for relatively (!) small companies. But reality is said to be quite the opposite. Assuming that that is true, why is that? There is an advantage to a company growing bigger (what's that called again), but that stops at a certain point and if you get even bigger it actually works to your disadvantage, which is why big companies often split themselves up into smaller companies. DirkvdM 08:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No, because the technically challenged markets can't easily be combined due to language differences. With my previous example of the ON/OFF switch, there is one solution for the technically proficient, regardless of language, just label them all 0/1 and they will figure it out.  However, for the technically challenged, they would need the appropriate label for each language, or would be confused.  So, the company is left with the choices of building specialized products for many different technically challenged markets, or ignoring them and going for the larger and more profitable technically proficient market. StuRat 18:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If you had followed the link attatched to Ka-bar that was in my response, you would have learned that it is a knife. Also, if you are unaware of what a English-Spanish phrasebook is, it is a book that has different phrases in it in both English and Spanish.  Go figure?  --69.138.61.168 02:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Does it give a literal translation for "Attatched"?
 * While the question was vague and a bit snotty I know what he means.I'm not very good at "Techstuff" I have to get someone to show me or explain it in ordinaryspeak.I may one day have a better level of skill but everyone has to start somewhere and I think not enough care it taken to help us.--hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 06:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC))

Longest Articles?
I am attempting to calculate how much, if anything, Wikipedia could save on storage and bandwidth charges by consistently using American, as opposed to British, spelling conventions. As a first step, I intend to take a sampling of articles and compare their character counts in English and American spellings. Longer articles would provide better data, but I have been unable to find a list of very long articles. Any suggestions of places to look for articles with high word counts?

Thanks!

--Jed Blue
 * Special:Longpages see also Special:Statistics. Jon513 23:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I doubt this would work, quite frankly. Wikipedia stores all edited versions, so a large change like this would use up even more storage space. Even if you mean that Wikipedia should enact a global replacement ("colour" -> "color" and so on) without storing the version/edit, the discussions and re-editing over this change would easily outweigh any possible storage space "saved", which I think would be miniscule anyway. By the way, are there that many words which use fewer letters in American spelling? --Canley 00:02, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You're probably correct as regards storage space, but it might effect bandwidth, since the latest edits of pages are far more likely to be accessed than older versions. At this point I'm mostly just curious.--Jed Blue
 * According to the lists on American and British English spelling differences, only behove (behoove) and pernickety (persnickety) are shorter in Bristish versions than in American spelling. Hyenaste (tell) 00:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think those words would appear very much! There's also common words like "color/colour" and "honor/honour" which the poster may be referring to. --Canley 00:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread your question. I thought you asked which words are shorter in BrE than in AmE. Hyenaste (tell) 00:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems like an offensive and fatuous exercise. Other than that, no objections from me. --Tagishsimon (talk)


 * The differences in text-length between EE and AE versions would be minute and if there is just one image in an article that would make the text size relatively irrelevant. A change from EE to AE would decrease bandwidth usage by at most one permille.
 * Btw, am I feeding a troll here? DirkvdM 12:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed - "color" and "cookie" for "colour" and "biscuit" may save space, but "teeter-totter" and "behoove" for "seesaw" and "behove" does not. I don't think there's much point in your experiment - it reeks of an attempt to prove AmE "superior" to BrE or maybe even vice versa. The difference is negligible.-  THE GREAT GAVINI  {T-C} 15:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is "teeter-totter" specifically American? Maybe it is used in a few parts of America, but everyone in America understands "seesaw." (Of course, they'll understand "colour," too - but not everyone would understand, say, "lorry.") zafiroblue05 | Talk 20:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The savings in bandwidth by reducing the number of characters would almost certainly be outweighed by the additional comments from non-US contributors complaining about American Imperialism. DJ Clayworth 15:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Your quest will probably fail. :\ --Proficient 21:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Nd Wkpd cld sv vn mr spc b sng Hbrw spllng cnvntns. (Or what about txtspk?) Not going to happen. EdC 03:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wll, jst n cnvntn, nml lvng t th vwls. DirkvdM 08:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Well, just in convention, namel living to the vowels"? Skittle 19:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Well, just one convention, namely leaving out the vowels." I knew the 'one' and 'out' would give problems. The word 'a' would even disappear completely. So there would be no distinction between 'sheep' and 'a sheep'. DirkvdM 05:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)