Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 December 6

= December 6 =

chad vader
how many chad vader episodes will there be and when is episode 5 finally coming out?
 * See Chad Vader. According to the article, there's no date for a fifth episode. Dave6 01:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Bakufu Slash Kizna Arashi
what does that mean in japanese?and how come it is not released in the USA?
 * See shogun for bakufu. Arashi means storm. --Kjoonlee 03:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Bakufu part is actually bakufū (kanji: 爆風), a wind caused by an explosion. Kizna, written in katakana キズナ in Japanese, might be related to kizuna (kanji: 絆), meaning "bond". Arashi (嵐) means storm. --Kusunose 05:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Odd question about potatoes
I'm working on a project (in the interests of science) and I need to find a large source of cheap potatoes. My time is somewhat limited (less than a week), but they don't need to be edible. What happens to potatoes that don't pass "inspection" or whatever process they go through at the farm? Would these be destroyed or put to some other use? --Xerol 02:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * See Food bank for what might happen to otherwise "unwanted" food. But for you, you need to do this google and start making calls. --Justanother 02:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Be aware that potatoes are frequently sprayed with a sprouting inhibitor which may adversely affect your "project" if it involves fermentation. In that case a good washing or peeling would be helpful. :-)  --hydnjo talk 03:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I doubt that'll affect the aerodynamic properties of them. Even if they were edible to begin with, they're not going to be in any condition to be once we're done with them. Anyway, thanks for the link, I'll make some calls tomorrow. --Xerol 04:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Potatoes are quite inexpensive as is, especially when purchased in large bags (in many cases, they are literally cheaper than dirt). How many do you need ? If you need a ton or more, then I see why the price would become an issue. For much less than that, I suspect you will spend more money to travel to a place where you can buy inedible potatoes in bulk, than you will save. StuRat 11:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So how big is this spud gun?--Shantavira 12:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic?
we were studying something on Ethnic and how it effect everyday lives. This WAS a homework assignment, but I was interested in this and wanted some more opinion on the matter. There were twin sister one name Meg and the other name Irene. Irene is a well like person in school and Meg is not, Also, Meg is a little depressed because she think that her parent love Irene more than she. Then Irene needed a kidney transplant so that she could live, but Meg would not give one of her kidney to Irene, because that she has always disliked her. Irene will die if not given the kidney. This was also set in the 1950's when there was no other way to be able to have a successful transplant without it being from another twin. You are the Doctor in charge of the surgery What should you do, should you back out or should you operate. Dragonfire 734 04:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Dragonfire 734: Your question cannot be answered because it DIRECTLY asked for opinions which the References Desks are discouraged from offering. The question seem to be on the subject of Ethics. Please feel free to reword your question in a manner that does not ask for personal opinions of the editors. Thank you. --Justanother 05:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why we're having a rash of people objecting to questions which require an opinion - even if this is an example of one of them, which I would dispute. I imagine there are protocols for donor surgery which the surgeon would follow; so, for instance, she would check that there is informed consent on the part of Meg. It is possible that others on the RD might be able to flesh out the sorts of considerations which attend, without having to reach for an opinion. Meanwhile I'm not sure what this question has to do with ethnicity, but there you go. --Tagishsimon (talk)


 * There is a difference between your opinion guiding your answer to an even somewhat properly-formatted question (how could it not) and asking an open-ended question that asks only for opinions. I was going to reword the question a bit but, in the end, that is not a great precedent and it is better all around that the OP post a proper question. --Justanother 05:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In this instance, the poorly worded question, which perhaps begged answers of "operate" or "don't operate", at least led to the concept of protocols and the importance of informed consent. I'd argue this demonstrates that it is possible to answer alleged "opinion please" questions with pointers to factual content. All of which is better than deleting the question, and probably more useful than chiding a questioner about the form of their question or stating that it cannot be answered here. --Tagishsimon (talk)


 * It more led to the concept of ethics, morals, philosophy, and religion. I don't think the question should of been deleted and I was putting it back the same time Friday did. I do think that questioners and "answerers" can and should be notified when their questions or answers are not in the spirit of the Reference Desks, whether they be obviously asking homework questions, asking for how-to advice on illegal activities, or turning this desk into a discussion forum. --Justanother 06:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I will be glad to give an opinion but I'm not sure where the ethical conundrum is. Both the donor and recipient of a transplant must give informed consent. Minors might not be able to do so on their own behalf. I don't think that this was really the issue though, unless the implication was that Meg was so depressed that she couldn't give informed consent. Please clarify why the surgeon is hesitant. -THB 06:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition to informed consent, AFAIK live organ donors go through counselling which is meant to weed out coerced donations and donors in it for the wrong reasons. The proposed situation likely wouldn't get as far as the surgeon having to decide whether or not to proceed; the transplant team would probably be constrained by their own protocols to deny the operation. In the situations I am familiar with at least. Anchoress 06:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a medical ethics question. While medical ethics vary slightly from country to country, they are relatively consistent. How well liked a person is, for example, is never used in the decision making process, either for them to be a donor or recipient. Also, by the following:

but Meg would give one of her kidney to Irene

did you mean to say:

but Meg would not willingly give one of her kidneys to Irene ? StuRat 11:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. The way it is worded there is really no ethical question there at all for the doctor. But if Meg does not want to donate but Meg is below the age of informed consent then can the parents over-rule her?? And if they can and do, then there is a valid question here. What should the doctor do? Valid but basically inviting opinions and points at topics of ethics, morals, philosophy, and religion along with legal responsibility with the final answer likely being one of legal responsibility which is another area we don't really deal with. But rewording the OP's question to that extent seems to go a bit far so I refrained from doing it. Better that we ask the OP to rephrase and clarify. --Justanother 12:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I left a message on the questioner's talk page asking for clarification. -THB 15:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Mysterious Movie Mechanics
Sorry, I couldn't resist the alliteration. Anyways, straight to the point. I was watching "The Grudge 2" yesterday with my friend, and about twice during the movie, a double O appeared on screen in yellow text. I've noticed that this happens with every Western movie I watch in the theatre here, although never the same letter. D, M, O, W... so on and so forth. At first I thought that this was a way of keeping the projector on track, but I've decided its doubtful. Are these letters part of the subtitling done to the movies? If not, what are they for? Crisco 1492 05:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * To help out, could you explain where "here" is? Also, by "Western" do you mean like cowboys and indians or like Western hemisphere?  Also, where on screen are these letters, what size are they, etc. Dismas|(talk) 06:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry Dismas. I am currently in Indonesia on an exchange program, and Western would mean American, French, English, and Australian.  The letters are in the middle vertically, and placed parallel.  I'd say about 1/4 of the way out from the left and right edges, similar to the spacing of the red bars on the Canadian flag.  They are always the same colour as the subtitles. Oh, and does this happen in many countries where films are subtitled? I never watched a subtitled film in theatres in Canada, (although I meant to see Hero). Sorry again. Crisco 1492 06:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Could they be Cue marks (aka "cigarette burns"), telling the operator when to switch to the other projector/reel?
 * They don't sound like cue marks - wrong position, and mostly wrong shape. Sounds like an artefact of the subtitling process, but I have not a clue why or what. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Is it still there when you turn the subtitles off? - Zepheus &lt;ツィフィアス&gt; 18:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It is in the Movie Theatre, not in a DVD or VCD. I think Tagishsimon is right, and they are a remnant of the subtitling process.  However, it mustn't be too hard to erase it, can it? Crisco 1492 23:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No need to apologise at the start. Alliteration's always acceptable. It shows you're thinking about what you're writing, and is a compliment to the reader. :) JackofOz 01:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Just Joking, JackofOz... I just wanted to start off with a light comment, to make it interesting for the reader. Who want's to read a question like its out of a textbook or a lecture? "And who can tell me what the purpose of floating letters in the middle of the screen signify?" (Without further explaination, I'd probably say you  need stronger glasses, but... I'm no doctor... anyways, thanks guys and girls for all your help.  Terima Kasih Banyak, teman-temanku. Crisco 1492 06:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The letters could be part of an anti-pirating technique. Perhaps different letters are added to different prints of the movie. Then if someone makes a video recording of the movie, it may be possible to figure out where it was done. --Anonymous, 09:05 UTC, December 7.


 * That's an interesting concept. To know if that is definitely the answer, I need to know: most pirated copies of a film, are they done by the theatre, or theatre goers? Pirating certainly is a problem here (Casino Royale was released on VCD immediately after it was in the theatre ((maybe even beforehand))).  Did Casino Royale get a simultaneous release of movie and DVD in the States and Europe?  Crisco 1492 23:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Find a suitale college or university!roi
I am a kindergaten teacher in viet nam.In order to furthur my knowledg,i want to go to study at Australia.However,i could'n find out the college or university that suitable for my current job.Could you please give me any suggestion about my problem? I'm looking forwarwd to hearing from you and thanks in advance.


 * This is an area currently undergoing change in Australia as far as qualifications, etc are concerned. However also be aware that in Australia things will vary from state to state, so you may need to consider what state/s you are wanting to live in.


 * Can I suggest you investigate the Myfuture website here where you should find the information you need. Perhaps the easiest approach is to just do a basic search for Kindergarten Teacher. Good luck. --jjron 09:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Adelaide has three Universities: Flinders University, the University of South Australia and Adelaide University. Sydney also has a lot.  I'd suggest you go to their websites and look at their programs of study to figure out what they have.  Australia's educational system is mirrored off of the UK's and has a lot of internationally recognized certification programs. --Cody.Pope 19:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * A good starting point might be List of universities in Australia. JackofOz 01:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Marketing/Advertising
Someone's asked me to find a source (or refutation) of a maxim in their workplace, along the lines of "people take no notice of marketing messages until they've noticed them seven times, in three different forms". This would seem to go against putting all your eggs in one media channel alone, which I'm sure must be successful from time to time... I'm also surprised against the "seven" bit; if it's impactful (Hello Boys comes to mind... probably too often) I reckon once is enough. --Dweller 09:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Check this page: Saying. The problem's with the definition, it's not really a Maxim in the true sense of the word. I would agree with you, once is enough if it's impactful.  Remember the 1984 (television commercial)?  vs. the commercial I saw the other night that ran every thirty minutes all night long and I can't even remember what it was advertising.  Advertising is an art, not a science. -THB 16:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Having been in marketing/advertising for over 40 years I can say with authority that any sensible or crackpot phrase or claim can be made without any foundation except hunch. David Ogilvy - possibly the greatest copywriter and advertising agency owner - said in Ogilvy on Advertising that "Everyone has a vested interest in prolonging the myth that ALL advertising increases sales to some degree. It doesn't." He also illustrates several cases where advertising has had a negative effect on sales. He also explains how Ford ran an ad in alternate copies of Readers Digest for a year. Sales figures for those NON exposed were higher than those from people actually exposed to the ads. Finally - one can never be wrong in advance of a campaign, and one can always explain failure in hindsight. Hooray for marketing research. petitmichel90.4.117.27 17:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I don't remember it. I don't live in the USA! But I do take your point.--Dweller 16:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I found a rather dubious source repeating the seven times idea (and calling it a maxim!) but not the three forms... and it also agrees with THB and myself about stand-out. Anyone got a proper marketing source for the seven times concept/maxim/saying/nonsense? --Dweller 16:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I can think of one company who was successful because of just one commercial: HeadOn did that annoying commercial where they say "HeadOn! Apply directly to the forehead!" three times in a row. I only needed to hear it once and when I went to a drug store i specifically noticed that particular product on the shelves. Not a believer in homeopathic medicine, I didn't buy it of course, but they had terrific sales afterwards. Sifaka   talk  21:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * An advertiser's dream. First, it gives you a headache, then it offers a "cure" for it. Sucker! Apply directly to the wallet! Clarityfiend 06:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sida
Hi, once again i need to have a question answered from my Memory so if anyone can help it would be appreciated My question is this: Around the 1960's there was this legend about a Man named Sida and he was weird and bizarre and everyone left him alone for some reason..And i belive there was a film made or something Can someone help me out with this and tell me where i might find some more Information on it? Catman503 10:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)Catman503


 * More information would help. Where are you from? B00P 10:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

More Information Uh..Okay well from what i remember I think he was from the Middle Eastern..and that he might have died of a Broken heart or something along those Lines and that was the only reason he was considered evil or weird...i can't remember anymore than that unfortunatly


 * A search of IMDB.com is giving nothing useful. -THB 15:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless you mean Sita. (Trials and tribulations, forest hermitage, but the character is female and subcontinental).


 * Maybe you're thinking of Siddhartha. JackofOz 01:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

material specifications
There is an S.A.E material spec 1112, I would to know if anyone can give the the equal of that material. It seems to be an outdtaed spec from somewhere around the 1960's. Thanks
 * Don't know about outdated; I find plenty of reference to SAE 1112 steel, here for example. Also known as AISI B1112. See AISI steel grades - 0.12% carbon steel (low carbon steel), resulfurized. --Justanother 15:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Mourning Dove Call Whistle Sound??
Can anyone do a really good mourning dove whistle?? I need a sound file of an actual person doing the whistle for a project I'm working on.

Thanks!! LDR


 * If you want an actual call, there appears to be some here. I'd give the artificial call a shot but my roommate is sleeping (yes still at 4:30 -_-) --⁪froth T C  21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

i would just like to know what type of project this is..hahaha. Or do you just want people to make weird birdie noises for you..lol..jk --Kittycat rox 01:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

US Citizenship
What is exactly the purpose behind making the citizenship test difficult? 20:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * To ensure that people who want to become citizens actually know something about this country. StuRat 20:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC) (reply restored by ⁪froth T C, wth User:85.50.130.179 ? I'm glad I caught that)


 * Thanks. Perhaps my answer was taken as "flippant", but all I meant is that the test is actually just what it appears to be, a way to ensure that those granted citizenship are knowledgeable about the country.  I don't feel the need to ascribe some ulterior motive to the test. StuRat 15:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd imagine that as sturat said it's to make sure that immigrants have been thoroughly naturalized. Ideally it shouldn't be difficult to a naturalized immigrant. --⁪froth T C  21:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the section on citizenship test in the article United States nationality law, the candidate must answer six of ten questions that are chosen from a total of 96 questions. The 96 questions and most of the answers are available ahead of time.  Some people would not consider such a test difficult, although it does involve memorization.  Anecdotally, some candidates are only asked two or three of the easiest questions. -THB 22:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, there has been a recent announcement that the test would be made harder, and would require a test-taker to answer questions based on their interpretations of American culture and civics, and not so much on memorizing answers. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Because generally you want people who are willing to apply themselves to the task. Think of it as a test of your determination, as a way of telling if you 'bring something' to the US other than your simple flesh and bones. People generally want new citizens to 1. be industrious/productive members of society 2. be willing to assimilate and show some knowledge of the culture 3. possess basic skills to get by i.e. literacy/numeracy and a grasp of the English language. Robovski 00:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It's just a way to make sure that the immigrant really wants to become a member of the United States. When you think about it though, people who are willing to go through all the trouble to get the citizenship are the people one wants in the country. They revitalize it to some extent. -- AstoVidatu 04:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a pretty loopy requirement; I don't think people in the US have ever been really comfortable about what it means to become an American citizen other than "you were born here" which is an easy one. The nation is almost entirely one of people who were immigrants at some point. The real sad part is that I would bet that most American high school graduates would flunk an American immigration test. --24.147.86.187 03:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yea, those Americans who don't understand our history and geography should leave the country, and move to New Mexico. :-) StuRat 15:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Torchwood Song
Again, agonising over where this question goes but decided this was best! Can anyone tell me what the song was that played in the Torchwood episode "They keep killing Suzie"? It was right towards the end when Jack came back into the Hub and him and Gwen shared a long (possibly meanigful?) look. It's just one woman singing from what I remember and I really liked it and now I want to find it!

Thanks in advance Farosdaughter 22:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The song is called "Gorecki" by Lamb; it was inspired by Henryk Górecki's Third Symphony, the Symphony of Sorrowful Songs and is used in the soundtrack to Baz Luhrman's film  Moulin Rouge!. Gandalf61 22:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I love you! :D Farosdaughter 22:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, talk about pay! --Justanother 23:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * music video on You Tube ...and others. 71.100.6.152 23:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

powered magneto
A magneto has a primary and secondary coil which are energized by magnets on the flywheel moving beneath an open core which the primary and secondary coils surround with one end of each grounded and the other end of the secondary coil used to produce a spark in a spark plug and the other end of the primary coil used to stop the flow of current in the secondary coil by shorting it to ground. Can a voltage be switch on through the primary coil at or near the moment the magnets pass the core to assure the generation of a spark at low RPM, i.e., when starting to assure the production of a current in the secondary and hence a spark at the spark plug and if so what must this voltage be? 71.100.6.152 23:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
 * I guess you mean can the magneto also function as a normal ignition coil which has the primary circuit powered by the car's battery rather than by moving magnets. Sure, I imagine but why? Engines with magnetos start up just fine. --Justanother 23:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Not always! Try cranking a Briggs & Stratton 8 Hp generator by hand at three in the morning if the power goes off! Under these circumstances the very least that is needed is an assist with the ignition. 71.100.6.152 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Just a brief note, I assume you mean Magneto (electrical) as the link? Sorry to seem to be picky, just wanted to get the link in for the archives. Skittle 23:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Correct. 71.100.6.152 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * So you think you need a fatter spark then. How about a tune-up and some starting ether? I know that is not an answer to your question. I see how the spark boost might help if you have some oil-fouling due to wear. Perhaps there are higher output ignition systems in the aftermarket? --Justanother 00:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There may be but even replacement parts are overly expensive. Currently using starter ether which helps. There may also be a problem with a cranky oil level guard which can be disconnected but that is another issue. Adaptron 00:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What you're describing is called a magneto booster, at least when it's installed on an aircraft.EricR 04:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

How do people know what Jesus looked like?
I see al the paintings and movies but how do they know he looked like taht?
 * They don't. See Images_of_Jesus.  Friday (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The short answer is that we do not know what Jesus looked like. All later portraits and depictions, from Byzantine icons onwards, are idealised images.  Clio the Muse 23:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I suspect the images of Christ have been influenced by interpretations of the Shroud of Turin. And a pancake somewhere in Britain. Although the pancake looks more like Captain Morgan, if you ask me. Anchoress 23:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The shroud's proven existence dates only from 1357. There were many images of Jesus prior to then. It may one day be shown that the shroud dates from around Jesus's time, but until then it couldn't be used to argue that the images of Christ are modelled on the shroud.  JackofOz 01:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and there have been an awful lot since. If you'll look, you'll see I'm not saying the depiction of Jesus is from the shroud, I'm saying 'I suspect images of Jesus have been influenced by the Shroud of Turin. If you look at pre vs post renaissance images of Christ, they actually do start to look more like the shroud, and progressively moreso over time. I'm not saying there's a direct connection, but I do'' stand by my assertion that His image has been influenced by that artifact. Anchoress 06:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Since Jesus descended in the main line Jews there is a good chance that his features would represent an atypical composite of jews today. The Bible says there was nothing spectacular about his physique. Adaptron 00:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Nobody does know, because the bible says almost nothing about his appearance. It is not important to concentrate on his appearance, just on his lessons. But, there are some things that give clues. He was a carpenter, and since there were no tools back then, we can assume that he was a very strong man to be able to handle wood. Not much else can be found.


 * No tools?????? So he sawed wood with his bare hands????? And the soldiers hammered the nails in likewise????????? Come on - get real - it was only 2000 years ago - much earlier man was using flint axes long before Christ was a carpenter.

well, what i meant was no power tools. sorry.

LOL Well thank you Jesus for giving me such a moment of light relief here. Im sure you did not need power tools!--Light current 03:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "What if God used Black and Decker..?" --Wo o ty Woot? contribs 03:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be awful publicity for black and decker if the roman centurions used a B&D nailgun to crucify Jesus? =) --⁪froth T C  20:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

By some strange coincidence, Jesus often looks very much like whatever people are describing him. In reality, he probably looked a lot like a Sephardic Jew or a (shudder!) Palestinian.

Atlant 12:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Adaptron, Jews from different countries can look very different. Furthermore, there's been 2,000 years of occasional intermarriage since Jesus' time, mixing up the gene pool nicely. I can't think how you'd find an ancient, sympathetic depiction of a Jew, as at the time, Jews considered this as making a graven image (see for example, the "heads"less coin struck by Simon bar Kokhba (right). All in all, I'd say it's pretty much impossible to say. As our article Images of Jesus states, Jesus' depictions tend to reflect the society making the image - compare Ethiopian, Byzantine and modern American/European images. --Dweller 14:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed! Sammy Davis Junior would probably not fit the atypical image of a Middle Eastern Jew... perhaps not even an Ethiopian Jew! But that was not my point. In terms of the hereditary line of Jews. (They did keep accurate records of heredity back then and I assume they have since, do now and will always.) What I am saying is that if you find a line of Jews who have records going back 2000 years then you probably will find (even with mingling of cultures some resemblance or idea of what Jesus may have looked like. Otherwise I do not think the term “Crooked nose Jews” (or is it hooked?) would stil be used today to derscribe certain Jews. Anyway Middle Eastern Jews even with the mingling of cultures tend to retain certain physical characteristics that everyone identifies with Jews. However what is important to note here is that no matter what Jesus physically looked like then or will physically look like when He returns that is not how you will know that it is Him. Adaptron 14:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Jesus looked quite a bit like Che Guevara going by some of the depictions I've seen of him. --81.77.246.46 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Not in terms of philosophy or religion, i.e., in terms of dealing with the cause of equivalent social conditions any more than you can equate the act of driving a plane into the World Trade Center as being equal to the work of Jesus despite similar grounds for taking action. Besides all Maxists are notorious for making such false comparisons between the work of other Marxists and Jesus Christ. Been there, done that. Adaptron 19:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you provide the chapter and verse that supports your statement above that "The Bible says there was nothing spectacular about his physique"? I think it's much more likely to be the case that the Bible makes no reference whatever to his appearance or physique, hence the assumption is there was nothing notable about it.  JackofOz 00:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. The Bible doesn't say there was anything special about His physique. Adaptron 13:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * philippians 2:8 - And being found in appearance as a man... --⁪froth T C  21:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Really?  That is news.  :)  JackofOz 00:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)