Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 October 24

= October 24 =

Jews
Thankyou for the information.Neturei Karta was the page I was on and did not bookmark. I have put the page on my list and all the other information as well. I lived in Germany for 15 years. I saw one of the camps and I had read about them for a long time. I met many people from other states also. ery interesting. Thank you again.I have a lot of reading to do.Thank you for erasing my private information.

Mary

Karma
Does Karma really exist? Kyle James


 * Of course. But it usually is accompanied by its other half 'Sutra' 8-)--Light current 01:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That's Kama! 216.160.53.151 02:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I always enjoy a nice karma apple. :-) StuRat 01:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yup, karma exists, at least in the form of karmic retribution. If you want to prove it, here's what you do. Go to a crowded place and look around. See the big buff biker dude with his girlfriend? Okay. Go up and smack her (hard, but make sure it is open handed). That's the karma. Now wait... You feel that pain from being beat up by the biker dude? That's the retribution. BAM! --AstoVidatu 02:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Or he can just see karma. It's amazing how much you can learn by not having the crap beat out of you by some biker dude.  Яussiaп F  11:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Is the fact that you feel it sufficient to establish that it really exists? --Lambiam Talk  15:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Karma is an issue of faith. If it makes sense to you and helps you to lead a better life in your own eyes then it has value. There is no way to prove or disprove that it exists; it is metaphysics not science. That does not in the least reduce its value. If you like it or you like the philosophy or religion it is a part of then it exists for you.


 * Check out Reciprocity. Whether Karma exists as it is described by religions is a matter of your beliefs. However, if by Karma existing you mean your actions will effect how people will treat and think of you then yes it does exist. It's human nature. —Mitaphane talk 18:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I knew of a shop that sold delicious Karma Corn. Edison 22:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Want a cool funky pet? Then get a Karma Chameleon :) Lemon martini 13:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Headphones/Microphone on NFL
I left a question here a while ago, but forgot about it, and can't find it. Something about Motorolla making the things you see coaches wearing at the football game, with a speaker on only one side, and a microphone. Thanks, X ['Mac Davis '] (SUPERDESK |Help me improve ) 07:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There are five pages of description in the following book. Cheryl Dangel Cullen and Lynn Haller (2004). Design Secrets: Products 2: 50 Real-life Projects Uncovered, pp 94-97.  Gloucester, MA: Rockport.  ISBN 1-59253-071-0.  Let me include a couple of quotes.  Coaches are highly visible to millions of fans every week.  Moreover, their status as team commander-in-chief carries a cachet that is hard to beat. "How could you have a more positive product placement than a commander marshalling his army down the field using technology to succeed?"  "Ultimately, the goal was for consumers to see these products on the heads of head coaches and link them to [Motorola's] consumer products, so that consumers who see the headset on TV and then walk into a retail establishment and see a product that's similar will buy it."  --Chan Tai Man 10:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I recall answering that question though don't have the time right now to dig around in the archives. Basically, they are headsets to communicate with other coaches like the defensive coach, the offensive coach, maybe some assistants and such.  There is also a spotter for each team who sits above the field near where the news reporters have boxes.  These spotters need to communicate with the coach so they have a headset as well.  Dismas|(talk) 13:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was kind of looking for it's name more, or the Wikipedia article. X ['Mac Davis '] (SUPERDESK |Help me improve ) 18:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's a tough one to find. Some google searching uncovered Control Dynamics the vendor that sells the helmet radios to the NFL.  Their site is pretty sketchy with the pictures and technical details, though.  As to why the headset worn by the coach carries the Motorola logo I do not know for sure.  I do know that years ago it was the David Clark (company) that provided headset communication systems to the teams and to broadcasters.  The particular green color of their headsets is easily identifiable.    I couldn't find a decent Wikipedia article on headset-based communication systems, either.  192.168.1.1 8:52, 24 Rocktober 2006 (PST)


 * Here's a nice brochure from David Clark showing how some of their headsets interface with different radios: Headset brochure. 192.168.1.1 8:55, 24 Rocktober 2006 (PST)

Powers of observation
How does one go about increasing his powers of observation consciously? sumal 07:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Besides for constantly watching things and observing things, I don't think there's a way. It seems like a natural thing. I remember when I tried to be more observant, such as knowing how many steps I walked up (after reading Sherlock Holmes, of course), it stopped without my noticing after awhile. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 07:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Try keeping a journal and record details of things you observe. Writing them down will make more apparent what you saw and what you missed. StuRat 07:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You ain't gonna like this but you can study Scientology. It frees up more of your attention and makes you more extroverted. If you are more extroverted you will observe more, assuming that you are looking, of course. Not a popular comment here on wikipedia but I would be remiss if I failed to make it. Otherwise, take up a hobby like birdwatching or geocaching that requires keen observation and you should make improvement. --Justanother 17:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like to expand. Observation can be thought of as dependent on a number of factors; how much attention you are giving to your surroundings, how much you are willing to observe your surroundings, and how much knowledge you have about what you are observing. On the first, a person can be thought to have a fixed number of "attention units" (or simply amount of attention). You have probably experienced this when driving a car; on a lightly traveled highway, you can drive, eat, smoke, and carry on a conversation at the same time. Only a few of your attention units are busy driving. But what about in a heavy rainstorm, in heavy traffic at speed. Then you kinda suck all your attention units back in from where there were floating and put them all on the job of driving. If you did not have a fixed amount of attention you could continue with all the other stuff too, but you don't. In general life, if your attention is tied up in matters internal to your head, you have less to observe with. I use Scientology to get my attention out of my head but you can use whatever works for you, start by eating well, getting a good night's sleep, and some exercise. Take care of those situations that are bothering you. Regarding willingness to observe, I don't know what area is on your mind but just gradually increase your willingness to be a part of it by finding some part that you are willing to participate in and do so; get out the world of computers and books and into the real world. Charity activities and volunteerism are good for that. Finally, how does knowledge fit in? When you know about a subject you can pick out details in what to another is a confusing black mass. The trained mechanic can listen to your engine and tell you that you have a vacuum leak or a sticky valve where all you hear is "normal engine noise". So learn about the subject or area where you wish to improve your observation skills. But don't forget about the birdwatching. I don't mean this to sound like I am saying that you are "in bad shape" or something of that sort, I simply wanted to address your question. --Justanother 20:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Special Economy Zone
what is special economy zone


 * Usually a low tax (or no tax) zone, to encourage businesses to grow. StuRat 14:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Aka a 'duty free zone', such as in Golfito, Costa Rica, where people can buy something one day and then collect it the next day. So they have to stay in town for at least one night (and possibly day), which is a boost to the local economy. DirkvdM 04:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Illegal music download sites
hi..

i just wanted to noe,..

how can i noe weather a music downloading website is legal or illegal?

what should i look out for in a legal music download website.??..thx


 * I don't know the answer to your question, but one of the links from our online music store article is called http://www.museekster.com/legalmusic.htm and they list lots of (presumably legal) sites. --Shantavira 12:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

More importantly, how can you know whether your spelling is correct ? :-) StuRat 14:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Misspelling is a big noe-noe here. --Lambiam Talk  15:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A legal music download site would be the iTunes store, or Walmart's. If you don't pay for it, it is illegal. If you pay for it, it might or it might not be. If you are using Limewire, Frostwire, or eMule to hook up to Gnutella it is almost certainly illegal whatever songs you may be downloading, and the same goes for Kazaa. Bittorrent and its tracker sites are mostly illegal downloads, although many sites offer legal downloads, such as Wikipedia and many free game demos. X ['Mac Davis '] (SUPERDESK |Help me improve ) 18:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not true that all free music is illegal. There's lots of old, public domain music, and some artists give away some of their songs for free, intentionally to build up an audience for other songs which they sell. StuRat 20:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Try Magnatune. The music is always legal to download, but they ask for a donation for a proper Flac cd, etc. I used to do this, but I just find the whole thing of filtering for good music a giant pain. I've gone back to buying a cd from an artist I like, and making a scratch cd for the car. --Zeizmic 15:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

off the top of my head, there are plenty of places to download free, legal music...but not by mainstream (signed) artists. here are a few: [], [], [], []. also, [] is another community (and fanatically obsessed with audio quality, i might add) which is dedicated to the proliferation of free, legal music downloads. Lrpelkey 11:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Red masks
Some of you may remember the person who repeatedly asked about the legality of several actions while wearing a mask. Should this person resurface, please direct them to Snopes. The site posted an entry on several fake laws from Arizona. Among other things it says the following about "Any misdemeanor committed while wearing a red mask is considered a felony.":
 * The notion that the wearing of a red mask during the commission a crime was once considered so heinous for some arcane reason that even today a person who jaywalked while wearing such a mask could be charged with a felony is amusing, but untrue. Nothing about red masks appears in the Arizona Revised Statutes. - Mgm|(talk) 10:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Save Illegal in a mask --216.164.197.58 22:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

CHINA
Why on earth has China got so many people??? And why has Asia got so many people in general??? Climate??? Im pretty sure its not to do with size because, for example Russia has a population of about 142 million people and someting like Indonesia has a population of 227 million and its like a tenth of the size lol.

have fun, --William dady 10:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No one really knows the answer to this question, but here are some likely reasons. 1.) The heavily populated parts of Asia have a more suitable climate for intensive agriculture than does Russia.  The growing season is longer, and the monsoon rains are predictable in most places.  They also tend to coincide with the the solar maximum in the summer.  2.) Partly for this reason, these parts of Asia have histories of agriculture and civilization going back thousands of years.  Over thousands of years, the population was able to grow large relative to other parts of the earth.  3.) Asia benefited from most of the population-enhancing technological developments that gave Europe its edge in early modern times.  In fact, with the important exception of industrialization, many of these technological developments (writing, metalworking, the plough) were pioneered in Asia.  4.) This is a bit speculative, but the religious ideologies of Hinduism and Confucianism stress the importance of accepting one's place and the existing power relations in society.  This may help to explain the relative stability and size of states in much of Asia compared to other parts of the world. Large and stable states allow for greater economic and population growth than a fragmented and unstable political landscape, which tends to disrupt agriculture.  5.)  Intensive rice cultivation produces a large yield per acre.  It is also fairly labor-intensive, and requires a large agriculture labor force to maintain.  Both of these features of rice cultivation encouraged large populations.  6.) You discount size, but Asia is of course the largest continent.  Europe has similar population densities to those of Asia, but its smaller area means that it has a smaller total population.   Marco polo 12:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And he should know!--Shantavira 13:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Lol. To be honest, I don't claim special expertise on China, though I'm interested.  I chose the login name because I am interested in geography, history, languages, and travel and have some knowledge in those areas.  Also, Marco has been a nickname of mine.  Sorry to disappoint anyone who thought that the great Italian travel writer had come back to life!  Marco polo 15:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with most of what Marco Polo said, but not the religious stability issue. Most of the worlds religions were formed in Asia, and fought amongst each other there, as well as exporting their religious hatred to other continents.  I don't think Asia has a history of any less war than other continents. StuRat 14:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't argue that Asia has had less war than other continents. But I think that war has been mostly confined to the edges of the great centers of population (Ganges Plain, eastern China), which have enjoyed remarkable political unity and stability over long periods of time.  While the Pax Romana was an exception in the history of Europe, similar centuries-long periods of peace were the rule, especially in China.  Several dynasties lasted centuries.  These tended to be centuries of population growth.  Even in India, the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal Empire ruled for hundreds of years in relative peace,  although they began violently.


 * As for religious hatred, this seems to me mainly a western thing (if we include Islam as a western religion). And in fact, the Middle East since the rise of Islam has had a relatively low population.  The Middle East has not been one of the great population centers of Asia since ancient times.  Religious hatred, according to the historical record, came to India with the Muslims.  While Hindu nationalists are hostile to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains lived together in mutual toleration.  India also welcomed non-hostile Christians and Zoroastrians in pre-Muslim times.


 * Marco polo 15:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't consider Islam to be a Western religion. While it's origins are quite close to that of Judaism and Christianity, it has since spread primarily to southern Asia and Northern Africa, whereas Judaism and Christianity primarily spread to Europe, Australia, and the Americas. StuRat 15:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Islam is not a western religion. The lack of faith in the west cannot be wholly supported by the Asians or the Middle east for that matter. The west is a clear reflection of impatience for desires.Kjvenus 21:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, forget that I called Islam a western religion. It was a poor choice of terminology.  However, I stand by my claim that religious hatred is primarily a phenomenon of Islam, Christianity, and perhaps Judaism, which share a common origin as Abrahamic religions.  Marco polo 21:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Indonesia is largely a long chain of volcanoes, and thus very fertile, which is good for population growth. But it is also the world's largest muslim country (by population). So why didn't they kill each other off then? Maybe it's because they are not that fanatic about it. So maybe it has nothing to do with religion. Maybe it's the attitude of people. Maybe Asian cultures are so old that they have learned to live together. The rise of Europe is very recent compared to the cultures or India, China and Indonesia (incidentally the most densely populated ones). Maybe we westerners are so uncivilised because we still have to prove ourselves. A teenager's tantrums? Just a wild guess. DirkvdM 05:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say "very recent", as the Minoan civilization goes back to around 3650 BC. StuRat 15:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * But that civilisation died a long time ago and the present European culture can't trace its roots back to it afaik. The only big civilisation it has some relation to is the Roman empire, but that realluy be called a continuos civilisation. DirkvdM 07:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Also check out List of countries by population density. Note that India and China are not all that high on the list - out of 230 countries, India is in place 31, China in place 71 and Indonesia in place 84. Also note that the western country that is bigger than a city state that is highest on the list is the Netherlands. So if population density is a result of civilisation ... :) (of course living in a fertile delta also helps). DirkvdM 05:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Population density probably isn't all that connected to civilisation level. Bangladesh, a third world country, is above the Netherlands. However, it fits your flood delta hypothesis... TERdON 02:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Ukraine
Other than russian, what language is spoken in the Ukraine? Ukaranese?
 * Ukranian.  Яussiaп F  11:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict) This is a question for the Language Ref Desk, but Ukrainian is the sole official language of Ukraine. It is the native language of 67.5% of the population; Russian is native for 29.6%.  JackofOz 11:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've not been to Ukraine for a while, but when I was last there, Polish was a popular language choice in Ukrainian schools. --Dweller 14:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Polish, hebrew/ yiddish

WHAT DAY WAS THIS
1st September 1923

thx, --William dady 11:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * AAAAAAAHHHHHHH! NO NEED TO YELL!
 * Seriously, you don't have to put the title in all uppercase letters.  Яussiaп F  11:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The 1923 Great Kanto earthquake. La  ï  ka  12:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Saturday. In future, this site is best for these questions.--Shantavira 12:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Tinkering with your car
Hi! What parameters are usually easily adjustable for the owner of a stock car? What I have in mind are things having to do with suspension (damping, caster, camber, …), fuel and air flow, power steering, electronic systems (non-locking brakes, speed control, …) or the like. By "easily", I mean without having to buy everything new, because then, of course, anything is possible. It might also be interesting to know what can be done slightly less easily. An example of the latter would be changing springs, is that feasible? —Bromskloss 12:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you trying to achieve? --Justanother 16:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know, really. At some point, I might want to toy around with a car on a race track or similar and then it would be a good thing to tune it for better performance – stiffening the suspension, for example. —Bromskloss 23:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You should get a copy of the book "How to make your car handle" by Fred Puhn. Here it is at Amazon.  It's a very well-written step by step guide to fine-tuning the stock suspension of your car, plus inexpensive bolt-on upgrades that will really improve the handling.  Have fun!  192.168.1.1 8:35, 24 Rocktober 2006 (PST)

Quick and dirty; you want to decrease roll rate and reduce unsprung weight. For the first, stiffer springs, "better" tires (easiest and cheapest - stiffer sidewalls on high speed and low profile tires), larger wheels, anti-roll bars. For the second, lightweight wheels and other unsprung components. More advanced techniques involve lightening the body, balancing the weight distribution and improving chassis stiffness. Chassis stiffeners are available for some vehicles to reduce chassis flex and unintended weight transfer. Oh, if you are starting from scratch, start with a car that already has decent handling and that reasonably-priced upgrades are available for. --Justanother 13:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tips. —Bromskloss 09:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You are very welcome --Justanother 12:58, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Are you racing yourself? —Bromskloss 13:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't thank us yet. I do track days on my motorcycle, and it's a lot like taking drugs: Intense high, somewhat dangerous, very expensive, and extremely addicting.  Next year when your credit cards are all maxed out and your car is plastered with racing club decals you'll probably hate us!  But in any case, you'd be surprised at how inexpensive the first steps are.  As Bromskloss said, tires are probably going to get you the most immediate improvement.  Get a GOOD tire gauge, and inflate them to the correct pressure for what you will be doing.  Using Puhn's book, check and correct your alignment, then get stiffer anti-roll bars and bushings.  You will feel an immediate difference.  Total outlay: Under a grand.    192.168.1.1 5:05 PM, 26 Rocktober 2006 (PST)

Simple Simon Restaurant in Grafton New South Wales
I am searching for the owner (possibly previous owner) of a restaurant which was called "Simple Simon".

My Grandfather's brother used to run the restaurant. I believe he was born between 1915-1920. My Grandfather recently passed away and had lost touch with his brother "Joseph Ryan also known as Francis (Frank) Ryan.

The Manager of the restaurant was named "Pearl".

If you have any info on the restaurant as it may have changed names, I would be really greatful. I would love to get in touch with either my Grandfather's brother if he is still alive as I have many unanswered questions.

Thanks,

Maria (Mississauga, Ontario, Canada)


 * The restaurant seems not to be in existence. If you go to this site and search under "Residential" for Ryan in Grafton, NSW, you will see some listings.  Another approach might be to contact the Clarence Regional Libary, which is the public library for the area around Grafton, to see if they have old directories that list the restaurant or your great uncle and their addresses.  You might then contact the occupants at those addresses to see if they know anything about your great uncle.  Marco polo 15:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably not pertinent, but the early logo of the Howard Johnson's American restaurant chain was Simple Simon and his dog meeting up with the Pieman. That sounds almost too Stephen King, but it was a nice logo.  Mothperson cocoon 11:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The most famous photographs of all time.
What are some of the most famous and recognisable photographs? I'm attempting to gather a collection of them. I already found photos of, Marilyn Monroe's dress rising up, Thich Quang Duc's self-immolation, Albert Einstein sticking his tongue out, Che Guevera, Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse and the September 11 attacks. Are there any others? Pesapluvo 16:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The picture of Sharbat Gula is very, very famous. ☢  Ҡ i∊ ff   ⌇  ↯  16:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Apollo 11 First step on the moon and the one with the flag. Very famous. And the one below with the little girl - good pick. --Justanother 16:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Two from the Vietnam War - the one of the guy being executed with a gunshot to the head, and the one of the little girl fleeing from a napalm attack. Sorry but I can't provide references for either of these, although I feel sure we must have articles about both of them. --Richardrj talkemail 16:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Found the first one - Nguyen Van Lem. --Richardrj talkemail 17:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Second is Phan Thị Kim Phúc. Rmhermen 17:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, I too have thought about making such a collection. Please do let us know what you end up with (or how you proceed along the way). For now, let's make a list right here. I include suggestions already made and some of my own (but you keep stealing them from me!). You're welcome to extend it as more images drop in.
 * Raising of flag on Iwo Jima
 * Marilyn Monroe's dress rising up
 * Thích Quảng Đức's self immolation
 * Einstein sticking his tongue out (flipped version, or is it the other way around?)
 * Che Guevara
 * Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse (suggestion)
 * Attack on World Trade Center in New York City (there aren't many pictures of the other sites, are there?)
 * First step on the moon (Did you mean this one, or perhaps this? I can think of several other.)
 * Sharbat Gula
 * Execution of Nguyen Van Lem
 * Phan Thị Kim Phúc, running naked after napalm attack
 * Atomic bombing of Nagasaki
 * Tiananmen Square protests (alternative)
 * Wright brothers and their flying machine
 * Soviet flag on German Reichstag
 * Sailor and nurse celebrate the end of World War II
 * View from the Window at Le Gras – early photograph
 * Cottingley fairies
 * Richard Nixon V sign (alternative)
 * Migrant Mother
 * John F. Kennedy Jr. salutes his father's casket (more versions)
 * Loch ness monster
 * The Stairs
 * John F. Kennedy motorcade (high resolution) (Perhaps a photograph from after the shooting is more recognisable.)
 * The Blue Marble
 * Toppling of Saddam Hussein statue
 * Saddam Hussein, captured (not too sure about this one)
 * Mahatma Gandhi (Is this one well-known?)
 * Juri Gagarin (Or is it just me that's too much of a space flight junkie?)
 * Earth rise (Apollo 10) (Probably better version (Apollo 11))
 * Actually, the famous one is the one from Apollo 8.  howch e  ng   {chat} 20:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Kiss by the Hotel de Ville (Or is it Kiss by the sidewalk?)
 * Kent State massacre
 * Malcolm X behind curtains
 * Conrad Schumann flees East Germany (alternative)
 * Abbey Road
 * Construction workers on a girder (More info, please.)
 * Valley of Death
 * Hindenburg
 * Nuremberg trials (Vote me down if I'm getting off limits here.)
 * Train wreck at Montparnasse
 * Home of a Rebel Sharpshooter (Is President Lincoln on the Battle-field of Antietam also famous?)
 * Death of a Loyalist Soldier (alternative)
 * Omaha Beach landing – landing craft (open)
 * Also possibly well-known:
 * Omaha Beach landing – landing craft (closed)
 * Omaha Beach landing – running soldiers
 * Omaha Beach landing – crawling soldier
 * Build-up of Omaha Beach
 * —Bromskloss 17:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Note that some of those pics were staged, such as the Marilyn Monroe pic (anything from a movie is obviously "staged"). I believe the Iwo Jima pic was also staged, as the actual flag raising was not dramatic enough for the photographers. StuRat 20:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Not true re: Iwo Jima pic. See Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima for the full story.  howch e  ng   {chat} 20:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I refer to the original smaller flag raising as the "real" one. The much larger flag-raising, done with a large group of photographers at the ready, strikes me as being more about publicity. StuRat 15:06, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Of course we can always google "most famous photographs" and look here --Justanother 17:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

How about the pic of a US sailor kissing a woman after WW2 had just been won: ? Or JFK Jr. saluting his father's casket: ? StuRat 17:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then there's this pic of a mother and her two children during the great Depression:. StuRat 17:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then there's the man standing in front of a line of Chinese tanks, famous everywhere but in China, where the entire event has been censored from history:. StuRat 17:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Then there's this pic of Richard Nixon:. StuRat 17:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

That german soldier throwing a grenade, where is that from? Joneleth 17:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * See the photographs listed in Category:Photographs (includes "Tank Man" and several of the others mentioned above). --Shantavira 17:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Another (and another military one) is Robert Capa's image of the soldier dying during the Spanish Civil War. Going farther back you would include the Valley of Death picture from the Crimea and the Sniper's Nest image by Mathew Brady from the American Civil War. Rmhermen 17:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Spanish Civil War photo was also staged I believe. DirkvdM 06:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That famous faked photo of the little girls with the fairies. The famous 'Loch ness' photo (the grainy one). Anchoress 18:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Karsh's pictures of Hemingway and Churchill, the picture of the rainy staircase at Montmartre. The pic of pregnant Demi Moore.


 * Robert Doisneau's The Kiss. The one of a group of construction workers sitting high up on a girder, eating their lunch.  Anyone got a reference for that? --Richardrj talkemail 18:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Charles C. Ebbets http://www.globalgallery.com/prod_images/bm-l191.jpg MeltBanana  19:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * What is really the deal with this and similar photos? I mean, are any of them real or anything? (Not that fake ones necessarily are disqualified from our list.) —Bromskloss 22:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The shootings at Kent State University --LarryMac 18:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * They're really in a different category (historically), but there are a lot of really famous celebrity photos: the one of Muhammad Ali with his baby, the pic of Hendrix at Woodstock, the pic of Mick Jagger at Altamont when he realised what was happening in the audience, the pic of Audrey Hepburn (I think on the cover of Time), a few Annie Leibowitz pics; the one of Whoopi Goldberg in a tub of milk, the one from the Rolling Stone cover of Fleetwood Mac all in bed together. Paul McCartney in Japan when he was busted for marijuana possession. The famous Sir Edmund Hillary portrait. Also a few sports pics; Jesse Owens crossing the finish line, the photo finish at the '88 olympics between Johnson and Lewis, the pics of Zola Budd being tripped. Also, they're not individual shots necessarily, but some of the photos of JFK in Dallas, Dr King and Malcolm X at the times of their assassinations are really famous. Anchoress 18:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * More info (links, really) would be nice. I'm afraid most of them are unfamiliar to me and were not to be found in their respective articles (or Commons, as far as I could see). —Bromskloss 21:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * How about Image:Yalta Conference.jpg, Lenin & peekaboo Trotsky and, Image:Pepper's.jpg and, not as famous as it should be, Hirohito examines his tubas http://www.badscience.net/?p=242  MeltBanana  21:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Are they really famous? I'm not sure I have seen them before. But lol, those tubas. :-) —Bromskloss 21:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sergeant Pepper's can't count. It's a collage, not a photograph... 惑乱 分からん 22:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, but Abbey Road must count, right? —Bromskloss 22:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ahhh, oh, yeah!... 惑乱 分からん 23:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I have seen one where a train has just been unable to stop and crashed through the wall at the second floor of a building (from the inside). Anyone knows what I'm talking about? —Bromskloss 22:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Image:Train wreck at Montparnasse 1895.jpg, lovingly recreated at a Brazilian museum http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo301966.htm MeltBanana  22:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Lovely, it's on the list. And the recreation was funny, with smoke and all. :-) —Bromskloss 23:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * For a more modern example, how about looking to the one of the Goatse Man? Probably one of the most iconic images of the 21st Century thus far, IMO - especially to anyone who's been online for any period of time... --Kurt Shaped Box 23:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Note that most photos mentioned so far are US-related. Of course this is in part to do with the US having been very much into photography, not in the least for promotional purposes, which of course also makes all the difference here (it's not about quantity or quality but fame). Another reason is that most people here are from the US and the rest from US influenced countries. Photos of the US lunar landing are famous around here, but how many people have ever seen the first photo of the far side of the Moon? Not the greatest of photos, but like I said, that's irrelevant here. For a million years people have been looking up at the Moon and this was the first time they could see the far side. No small event, I'd say. And it's not just the event, it's the photo itself that is important. For some more photos that should be famous, check this out. Ok, maybe not famous. :) DirkvdM 06:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, and of course we shouldn't forget the first photograph ever. DirkvdM 06:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC) - Oops, that is already on the above list. DirkvdM 06:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm actually not so sure it's the first photo, but as long as it's well-known, I guess it's fine. Which brings us to the question – is it? Or is it just people like you and I, who are interested in technology, that know about it? —Bromskloss 08:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, don't ask me, I'm one of those people who are like you and I. :) Anyway, I didn't know several of those US photographs, so it's also a regional thing. Funny, I only know parodies and such of Monroe's rising dress - I had never seen the original photo. And I actually once built a model of the Wright brothers airplane, not knowing what it was. Funny, I don't remember having ever seen this photograph, but I must have based the model on something. I probably only remember my model and not the photo. :) DirkvdM 09:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Another Vietnam war one, not in the article is of the buddhist monk burning himself in protest. DirkvdM 06:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's already there. Look for "Thích Quảng Đức". —Bromskloss 08:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Also note that this is much influenced by iconisation. Also, ironically, the more photographs there are of a person or event the less likely one of them will become famous. I can't think of a single famous photograph of Hitler, which is odd, if you think about it. Or maybe an effort was made to not make him into an icon. The reason I came to think of Hitler is that it irritates me I can't think of many European famous photographs. Maybe that is because, apart from WWII, nothing too shocking has happened in Europe since photography became widespread. DirkvdM 06:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture of the railway line leading into Auchwitz concentration camp as well as many, too many pictures of Prisoners in WWII Nazi camps


 * This one? Isn't it the site that is famous (er… well-known, in any case) rather than the photo? And as for prisoner pictures, I think we are looking for notable individual photographs rather than a notable kind of photographs, but please suggest individual photos that you think fit. —Bromskloss 12:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * the Billy the Kid left-handed gun photo(hotclaws**== 11:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC))
 * Is it well-known? Apparently, the photo is flipped, so he was probably not left-handed. —Bromskloss 12:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Surely there must be one of the folks dancing on or smashing down the Berlin Wall that would qualify? Lemon martini 09:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there any particular one you have in mind? Because I think that't what we are looking for. None of the photos on Commons were familiar to me. —Bromskloss 09:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Art photo seem to be underrepresented. What about the nude woman as a violin by Man Ray or Ansel Adams' images of Half Dome or Taos? Rmhermen 20:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A german soldier jumping over the first fence between East and West Berlin. TERdON 02:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Barak Obama or Hilary Clinton? ASAP Please.
next president? what do the polls say? --Moscowcoupattempt 17:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * See 2008 U.S. Presidential election and Potential Democratic candidates in the 2008 United States presidential election. Rmhermen 17:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I bet my right arm neither will win or even make it very far at all. X ['Mac Davis '] (SUPERDESK |Help me improve ) 18:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldnt care for either, and like Mac, dont think either will go far..-- The Corsair . 22:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Which country? Russia? DirkvdM 06:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon
Can someone help me? I am trying to find Winona Rider's Bacon number. Any ideas? Thanks. 18:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The number is two. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * On Wikipedia, her Bacon number is three. Kevin Bacon's Ryder number is, however, only two :) <span style="padding : 0px 1px 1px 1px; border : 1px solid #809EF5; cursor: wait; background: #FFFFFF ; color: #99B3FF">GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 19:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * "Winona Ryder has a Bacon number of 2.

Winona Ryder was in Lost Souls (2000) with Alfre Woodard Alfre Woodard was in Beauty Shop (2005) with Kevin Bacon" (http://oracleofbacon.org/cgi-bin/oracle/movielinks?firstname=Bacon,%20Kevin&game=1&secondname=Ryder,+Winona) Aaadddaaammm 00:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think GeeJo is referring to another game where you link through wikipedia content, not through movies. Bacon numbers usually refer to movies. --Justanother 01:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Peanut butter demographics
Do more men or women eat peanut butter? Race, class? <font color="#6644FF">X ['<font color="#006600" face="Times">Mac Davis '] (<font color="#6688AA">SUPERDESK |<font color="#666666">Help me improve ) 19:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * go buy a $2000 market report mac. www.the-infoshop.com
 * let me know what you find and we'll start a company to target the recommended niche, then we can do market research on ridiculous things that you bring up during a brainstorm session, like whether or not the sexes differ on peanut butter consumption.
 * Dogs eat peanut butter regardless of their sex. Mothperson cocoon 10:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Friendster and MySpace
Friendster was basically the same kind of site as MySpace, but it never took off in the way that MySpace has. Why was this? Was it an idea that was ahead of its time? --Richardrj talkemail 21:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * CampusNetwork was another early site which did not take off as big as the winners.Edison 22:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The biggest factor in my opinion is luck. Other factors include the setup (MySpace may have been easier to use) and level of appeal (MySpace's base was local bands and it just evolved off that base to a broader one). --AstoVidatu 21:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Freedom
What is the exact definition of freedom? Is it the american mindset or way of thinking that is being imposed around the globe? Can there be a difference between freedom granted in Iraq and that being practiced in the US? What exactly is the whole idea behind the american dreams? Is it a world of illusion and materialistic contentment that the world is compelled to chase? Why is there high levels of impatience for desires? Kjvenus 22:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Note to anyone that was thinking of responding with fury: Don't. That is, do respond if you wish, but pleas do it calmly and with a forgiving attitude. Thanks. —Bromskloss 22:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * …and pleas teach me how to spell. —Bromskloss 22:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's spelled please. ;) --WikiSlasher 08:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Woo. Lets see. A toughie.

1.Freedom, I beleive, is the ability to do what you want, as long as you dont impede on others freedoms. I think freedom would be pretty well liked all across the globe, and by its definition, it wouldnt be imposed on anyone.

2.Can there be a difference? I dont really understand that. I think that there could be the same level of freedom in Iraq as that in the US, if thats what you mean. I beleive they would like freedom, such as the ability to wear what theyd like without getting their heads lopped off and their bodies incinerated. Saddam certainly wasnt giving them that. 3. The American dream, as defined by Wikipedia, is: <blockquote style="border: 1px solid blue; padding: 2em;"> The American Dream is a subjective term usually implying a meaningful, successful and satisfying life. This term usually implies financial security and material comfort, but can also imply a dream of fame, exceeding social, ethnic, or class boundaries, or simply living a fulfilling life. Perceptions of the American dream are usually framed in terms of American capitalism, its associated meritocracy, and the freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Bill of Rights. As to whether it is a world of materialistic contentment the world is compelled to chase, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of it and your outlook on life, as well as your religious beliefs and personal standards. I think its the fundamental want for a stable life for you and your family, and as such, I dont find it to be wrong.-- The Corsair . 22:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I counted 6 questions, unfortunately I can only answer one. SO please choose which of the 6 question, you want me to answer. 202.168.50.40 22:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The respondents are giving or unable to give a concrete and a constructive response. There are many who despite not having attained the american tag name have yet a materialistic and fulfilling life. Like the consumer spending in India is rising at an alarming rate, people in the middle east like dubai, and other modern arab states also have a materialistically fulfilling life. What is the ideology behind the spirit of freedom? How can one draw the line between impatience for desires and self confidence to attain them despite having the accessibility to the desires? Kjvenus 22:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You see, you talk about the American dream, ask about it, but then give an Indian example. I bet there is an Indian dream too. The American tagname was simply given because America has more rights then alot of places, but not all. Its simply a name, dont look into it as some sort of worldwide American takeover attempt. You can call it the Indian dream too, and I cant think of many people who wouldnt wish said Indian and whoever else wishes to achieve a satisfying life the best of luck. Look past the name, and into the actual concept. And, respectfully, dont try to put words in my mouth, as I can see that this might be where this discussion is going to go.-- The Corsair . 22:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I also see many people in my life who have desires, but dont have an impatience to reach them, as you say. Think about teachers, firemen, social workers. They dont make millions, but they lead satisfying lives. You act like all Americans are tax cheating billionares who step on poor fieldworkers to get to the big time or something. -- The Corsair . 22:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Im afraid, also, that im having slight difficulties understanding your statements. Ive already told you the ideology behind freedom, and you seem to act like the "American Dream" somehow states that people in Dubai cant make money too. Ive never heard or seen this. I honestly dont see how you could come to that conclusion, and your statements are mainly nebulous and in the form of questions. Perhaps you could clarify what you wish to discuss?-- The Corsair  22:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If you're willing to discuss at all. You just seem interested in pushing your own viewpoints, with rhetorical leading questions... 惑乱 分からん 23:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly, Wakuran. I see he has left, however.-- The Corsair  23:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"Freedom's just another word for 'nothing left to lose'." StuRat 05:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Why do you keep asking the same question? What is your obsession with impatience? --Lambiam Talk  06:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Wiktionary says it is the state of being free. Freedom (philosophy) and Freedom (political) are two useful Wikipedia articles. It is not "the american mindset or way of thinking that is being imposed around the globe". People thought about freedom long before the birth of the US I'm sure.

Can there be a difference between freedom granted in Iraq and that being practiced in the US? Yep, countries around the world have different laws regarding copyrights, alcohol/drug consumption, gambling, flying planes, wearing seatbelts, taxes, setting off fireworks among other things. This applies to Iraq too. There are actually many laws passed that are for people's own good and technically these could be considered to be restricting people's freedoms.

Is it a world of illusion and materialistic contentment that the world is compelled to chase? It is probably impossible for some people to be truly satisfied. Even now with electricity, water, heating, broadband Internet access, video games and a decent computer I know I will always want something more. --WikiSlasher 08:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, Buddha claimed that desire causes misery, on the other hand, you could say that Human curiosity and dissatisfaction has led us to where we are today, but on the other hand again, you could say that that isn't necessarily a good thing... 惑乱 分からん 17:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Technically there is a definitive limit to how free you can get, when your able to do whatever you want whenever you want and however you want, then you are per definition completely free (but yes that in most cases do limit the freedom of others but who ever said anarchism was practical). Joneleth 17:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Birth Records
I am searching for my brother in laws' Parents. Their names were George Richard McMahon and Dorothy Irene Reidy McMahon.He thinks they are from or born in Washington,Indiana. Can you help me?
 * Ancestry.com has lots of info. They have everyone listed in the U.S. Census through the one in 1930, every deceased person who had a social security number, and lots of public records. You would need more to go on than you provided, such as their approximate years of birth. Edison 22:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If they were born after 1930 it might be difficult, census records are private until 70 some years after they are taken, hence the 1930 census being the 'newest' one released just a few years ago. You might contact the Washington public library, local libraries often have old city directories as well as birth and death indexes. Nowimnthing 00:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

1960's Jeep CJ-5A and CJ-6A
What are the specifics of the early '60's versions of these vehicles? I need to know the Miles per gallon, Ease of repair, and the durability.--<font face="HandelGothic BT"> Meteshjj We come from the land of the ice  and snow 22:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The "ease of repair" varies greatly depending on how mechanically inclined you are. They are easier to work on than a TJ would be since there are no computer controlled parts to have to work with.  Durability is variable depending on how the vehicle is kept.  If the Jeep was kept in a garage in a warm climate without salt water in the area, then it should have been kept up and should remain durable for years to come.  I've seen many CJs that were in better condition than some TJs.  I suggest you ask around at various Jeep message boards.  .  Dismas|(talk) 00:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I want to buy an early 60's CJ-5A from someone in Butte, Montana. The climate is cold, but the town is at leas 500 miles away from the coast.--<font face="HandelGothic BT"> Meteshjj  We come from the land of the ice  and snow 01:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but the salt water comes from the salt they spread on the roads, there, so it likely has rust. StuRat 04:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Without having seen the vehicle in question, it's impossible to say if it's going to be worthy of purchase. A geographical location just doesn't give enough information to make an educated determination of the vehicles well being.  Has it been off road?  If so, how much?  Was it garage kept?  Is there rust on the rocker panels or in the wheel wells?  What does the frame look like?  Is the frame rusty?  What engine is in it?  Is it the original engine or has it been replaced?  If so, what is the replacement engine, e.g. Ford, Chevy, etc.? How many miles are on the engine?  Does it burn oil?  Older Jeeps are easy to work on and many of them no longer have all the original equipment.  They are one of the most modified vehicles with a huge aftermarket parts selection.  What little information you have given us is simply not enough to make a good determination as to whether it would be a good vehicle for you.  Partially because I doubt many people here are as into Jeeps as I am.  I really do feel that it would be in your best interest to go to a Jeep message board, such as the one I suggested, and ask people who are more familiar with Jeeps and their maintenance.  Dismas|(talk) 06:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The best place to buy old cars is from Arizona or New Mexico. Dry, no snow, no salt. That is why the military has thousands of planes "mothballed" there out in the open. For a look, put 32.161730° -110.841466° in Google Earth. --Justanother 19:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

us abbreviations
is there a specific person that came up with these united states abbreviation


 * Which ones ? US state postal abbrevs ? StuRat 04:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The United States postal abbreviations appear to be created in 1963 by the USPS. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Abbreviations in general come forth due to practical reasons of not having to write long chains of letters again and again. 惑乱 分からん 11:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * But also when you want to give the abbreviation some meaning (sometimes a deceptive meaning), which the full name lacks, like the infamous USAPATRIOT Act ("Who could be opposed to patriotism ?"). StuRat 20:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

amygdal hipocampectomy
82.13.44.29 23:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)Having already asked medical persons without getting a reply I wonder if anyone can tell me whether the above brain surgery could affect the limbic system. By this I mean the Olfactory system in respect of preception to odourants that were once pleasant and have now become nauseating now. --82.13.44.29 23:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just so you know, you only need to make your signature after a comment, not before.  Яussiaп F  23:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Data Entry Jobs
I know this probably isn't the right place to ask this but I was wondering if anyone here knew of how or where I could find out about a data entry job to work from home or other jobs that would allow me to work from home. Or to just guide me in the right direction. There are loads of these sites available but most seem like a scam.

Thank you.


 * You were right in saying there wasn't much of chance of finding it here. However, you could check with job sites such as Yahoo HotJobs and Monster.com. user:Celestianpower

Sleepy
Why is it that one's mind does not function as well just after they have woken up? Like, early in the morning, or if I wake up in the middle of the night, I find myself thinking and sometimes even doing stupid things. Example: a few nights ago, I woke up at 2 AM and decided to go hiking. I put my clothes on and then proceeded to walk a quarter of a mile into the woods before I realised how foolish I was being. Musli Miester 23:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you may be suffering from sleepwalking sickness. I advise visiting the doctor 8-)--Light current 00:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that's basically right. That is, it takes time for the brain to switch from one state to another.  For example, I sometimes have no idea where I am when I wake up, until my brain starts to work properly. StuRat 04:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * So it does do that occasionally? :) DirkvdM 06:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, my brain, as well as the rest of me, works. You should try it some time. :-) StuRat 06:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No, thanks, I've already got enough on my mind with my own brain. DirkvdM 09:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah but you dont wake up wandering in the woods do you? If so Id see a lycanthropist--Light current 05:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The air inside a home becomes pretty stagnant overnight -- I'd suggest either opening a window in your room (if only a crack), or getting a fan blowing toward your face (on low setting, of course), or both. Chris 02:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, there is correlation between being drunk and being tired. Some police officers pull over people who are tired thinking they're drunk, but they have no alochol in their systems. This was referenced in a traffic book somewhere, I believe. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And consequently don't fine them. I heard that from a woman in Seattle who had three jobs and almost fell asleep when driving, so the police stopped her. At first they were very rude, assuming she was drunk. When they realised she wasn't they were all apologies. She was still a hazard, but she hadn't been drinking, so that was ok then. DirkvdM 06:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup! driving whilst tired/asleep can be much more dangerous than whilst drunk/drugged and should carry the same penalties. Or the culprit could be subjected to a HP water hose with freezing cold water. Many people are asleep whilst driving to work. One woman took the front of my car off the other day by reversing across me at about 30mph! (eyes wide shut presumably 8-))--Light current 15:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Back to walking the line. Tests for alcohol have become more sophisticated but have started to ignore what it's about. Just do some simple physical tests or motoric control. DirkvdM 09:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah but what the test for just plain stupidity? Duh?/ 8-)--Light current 00:27, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Huh? You want to test people for their stupidity? DirkvdM 07:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)