Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 April 9

= April 9 =

Phrase Origin
Does anyone know where the phrase "there's more than one way to skin a cat" comes from? I've Googled it, but everything that comes up is just someone else who wants to know the answer, and no one that actually knows. Steveo2 19:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The best I found on Google books is in Speaking of Animals: A Dictionary of Animal Metaphors By Robert Allen Palmatier. Apparently there are two ways skin a cat: from head to tail and from tail to head.  As well as being a disgusting image, it seems a rather inadequate metaphor for the idea expressed.  First attested 1830.  Maybe the sheer gratuitous grotesqueness tickled the collective funnybone of the anglosphere enough to make the expression stick. jnestorius(talk) 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I would think it's obvious that there's more then one way to skin a cat (although it doesn't really explain how the metaphor got into being) Nil Einne 22:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * People coin metaphors all the time; the question is why this one took off. I don't think skinning cats is one of those forgotten folk-skills that everyone understood when metaphors were being invented. A variation on earlier "killing cats" seems plausible in that there are lots of ways to kill a cat, but relatively few ways to skin a cat, which reduces the force of the example. jnestorius(talk) 22:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * A Dictionary of American Proverbs (1996) lists several variations:
 * There's more than one way to skin a cat without tearing the hide.
 * More than one way to kill a cat besides choking him with butter.
 * More than one way to kill a cat besides skinning him.
 * More than one way to skin a cat.
 * There are more ways than one to kill a cat.
 * There are more ways to kill a cat besides choking him to death.
 * There is more than one way to kill a cat.
 * There is more than one way to kill a cat besides choking him on cream.
 * Earliest known written source: 1678 Ray, John English Proverbs.&mdash;eric 22:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Proverbs in which the cat suffers horribly are commonplace. "There isn't room in here to swing a cat" for example. 'swing' means "hang with a noose"...not a nice image. They seem to be old and I suspect that at some time in the past there was a common idea that doing bad things to cats was a humorous image.  This is still true - remember the best-seller book "101 things to do with a dead cat" which consisted of 101 cartoons showing creative uses for cat corpses? SteveBaker 04:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Remember that in the "dark ages" cats were considered the familiars of witches. Cats were routinely killed because they were so linked to witchcraft. So it seems much more plausible that skinning and otherwise killing cats has a derivatiion not in humor, but in superstition.Fdharbour

My understanding of this phrase is linked to the similar ones, 'not enough room to swing a cat' and 'thats let the cat out of the bag'. I don't have any reference for them other than I come from a naval family from the old naval city of Plymouth, England. I offer this only as a possible pointer to further investigation. The Imperial War Museum in London may have an authorative answer. The 'cat' in question is not a feline but rather the cat-o-nine tails, which was once used aboard Royal Navy ships as punishment. It was kept in a canvas bag until required and once it was taken out everyone on board knew what was about to happen. In other words the secret was out. It was used to flay (strip the skin/whip)the wrong-doer and the person using it needed room (their arm's length plus the length of the 'cat' in order to be able to 'swing' it and deliver the blow. In England we use the term 'not enough room to swing a cat' to describe a small space or somewhere where there is little room to move. The nine strands (tails) of the 'cat' were knotted and it ripped the skin off the back of the poor unfortunate it was used on. No doubt there was skill in using it properly and in the different types of strokes employed to achieve the punishment. I assume that the meaning of the phrase (more than one way...), which is that there is more than one way to approach a problem or issue refers to different techniques that could be deployed in the flogging and therefore taking the skin off the back of the sailor being punished. Presumably some of the flayed skin stuck to the the Cat-o-nine tails!
 * Although it is said, “There is more than one way to skin a cat.” There is only one correct way, that will utilize efficiency and produce the best yield of product.

Taxes
I want Wiki pedians on here to help me with my taxes this year. I think it would be a good idea, seeing they are due soon. I have questions. Gatorphat 02:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know if this explicitly falls under our "no legal advice" rule, but common sense should tell you that you should get your tax questions answered by a professional accountant. Your money isn't something I would recommend staking on the advice of strangers on the internet. -- mattb


 * You might find some useful information in our Category:Taxation in the United States. Check out also the Free File Alliance (if you earn under $52k). Rockpock  e  t  07:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I recommend you transfer all your money to me. I'll make sure the IRS gets their share. Black Carrot 07:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Surely you would need to actually know some financial history to work out how much is owed to the IRS and you would also probably need to get their permission to act on their behalf. Indeed is it even possible if your not a professional accountant? Bearing in mind you not only have to work out how much they owe but you have to pay it. Nil Einne 20:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

"Gimme got stuck in a bottle"
I remember as a kid i was told this everytime i use the word "gimme." Does anyone know the tale behind this phrase? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.30.45.124 (talk) 04:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Maybe a pun on Genie (Djinni)? The story of the genie stuck in a bottle becomes "gimmi stuck in a bottle"?? It's a long shot - but it's the best I've got! SteveBaker 04:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That's much better than my thought about a reference to the movie My Life as a Dog (with "Gimme" perhaps a nickname for Ingemar ?). I see we don't mention the scene in question in our summary, so here's one that does: . StuRat 05:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm... I suspect this may be related to the common folk image of the person "caught his hand in the cookie jar", whose greed gets his hand stuck in the container.--Pharos 21:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

paypal transfer
if i were to get money from a survey website for taking their surveys and it goes into my paypal account is there a way to get that money intu my bank account.--logger 06:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, although it's been years since I've done it. There is a way.  Dismas |(talk) 07:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Just checked. Go to their website at http://www.paypal.com/ then click on the word "Help" in the upper right of the page.  The very first question on the page is "How do I withdraw funds from my PayPal account?".  Dismas |(talk) 07:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes - I do this a lot. Remember that PayPal take a cut of the money you earn - check their rules carefully so that you charge your customers enough to cover that charge! You can even get a PayPal credit card and spend money directly out of your PayPal account without messing with a bank account. SteveBaker 02:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Paypal does not take a cut if you sign up for a personal account. So, if you are being paid via money transfer (not a credit or debit card), you should sign up for a personal account.--Myzembla 13:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Bayo beans
Are bayo beans and pinto beans the same? I'm having trouble finding the answer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KeeganB (talk • contribs) 08:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
 * They're listed as different entries (without either one mentioning the other as substitute) on foodsub's bean page (still, the beans pictured there do look similar). ---Sluzzelin talk  14:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Asana
There are a infinite number of Yoga Asanas, so then how are stretches differiantiated between stretches and asanas? A response on my talk page would be greatly appreicated, or to let me know there's a response would still be appreciated, thanks!100110100 11:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

How do you start a number list at a number other then 1 using Wiki markup?
How can you start a numbered list at 3 and still use the #?

In HTML you would use &lt;OL start=3&gt; and then each line you would put a &lt;LI&gt;. How is this done in wiki langage.

192.195.234.26 14:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's possible. You have to fake it. J I P  | Talk 16:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

1) I rarely use wiki numbered lists, since they get messed up if even an extra blank line is added, much less a comment (added by somebody else) between items.

2) I agree that you should just fake it. StuRat 20:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you tried just using HTML? Just try your &lt;OL start=3&gt; syntax in here and see if it works. NoClutter 20:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

This question really belongs at WP:HELPDESK, not reference desk. jnestorius(talk) 21:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * yes, you have to use HTML. But you can use html in wikipedia markup see Help:List.  Jon513 17:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning
How do I get paint off a silken necktie? J I P | Talk 16:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

What type of Paint? Is it a water soluble one? If not, I'd suggest white spirit. MHDIV ɪŋglɪʃnɜː(r)d  ( Suggestion? | wanna chat? ) 17:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know the exact type, but it's the kind of paint used for painting Easter eggs. Not artistic and certainly not industrial paint. J I P  | Talk 17:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Is it more of a paint (with an opaque pigment that forms a coating) or a dye (something that gets absorbed into the eggshell and colors it)? The former is probably going to be easier to remove (with the right solvent) than the latter.  In addition to white spirit (or mineral spirits, or paint thinner) you might also start with something gentler like rubbing alcohol (ethanol with denaturants).  In all cases, test a patch on the back of the tie first&mdash;you want to be sure that your solvent of choice doesn't remove the dye from the tie.  You can also try having the tie dry-cleaned.  In any case, you may have to give up and replace the tie: . TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This "How to Clean Practically Anything" book I have in my drawer (don't ask) notes that silk usually needs to be dry-cleaned, as water doesn't usually agree with silk (nor do some dyes). You might want to see if the tie has a fabric care tag, or even ask your local dry-cleaner. --YbborTalk Survey! 01:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Old Surveying Transit
Wikipedia Experts,

My Dad owns an old surveying transit..we think. The name on it is Texas-Asiatic Co.. Atlanta-Dallas..#12440..Eagle. These were all the words we could find on it. We would like to know what this piece of equipment is. How old it may be. What it was used for. Or any information you can find for us. I've looked on the internet in every topic and search I can think of and came up with nothing except ones that look simular on E-Bay. But no information with them. Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.

63.215.29.119 19:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Does theodolite answer your questions ? StuRat 20:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The pictures in that article are modern ones. Try searching Google images for older models. Otherwise could it be a sextant?--Shantavira 20:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I just checked and there is evidentally an Antiques Roadshow in the US. It sounds like you're from the US and if you are, you could see if they will be in your area any time soon. If they are, you could take this item there. Alternatively, posting pictures here or elsewhere would help people identify it Nil Einne 20:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Rawfoodian Etiquette
What do you do if you are attempting to adopt Raw foodism and you would like to attend a social outing at any of your typical "greasy-meat-only" restaurants with family and friends. I don't want to give off any attitude of judgement, and I don't want to be accused of being a cheapskate by bringing my own food to the restaurant with me and eating that instead (even though it is cheaper). What do people do in this situation? NoClutter 19:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This question calls for opinion, so I have answered here: . StuRat 20:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it seems like there should be some reliable source out there that addresses this issue, not purely requiring personal opinion. You might be surprised at the number of places that do not serve _any_ kind of vegetables except coleslaw and salad (I was). NoClutter 20:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You have a few options.
 * Find raw-food-only friends.
 * Eat something cooked (see flexitarianism).
 * Eat something substantial before or after the outing (or bring a snack with you) and eat the garden salad from the menu at the restaurant.
 * Persuade your friends to have dinner at a raw-food-friendly restaurant sometimes.
 * I actually don't see what the problem would be with #3 or #4.... TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Note if you do plan to bring your own food, you need to check with the restaurant first that it is okay. Many don't like people bringing their own food for obvious reasons although in your specific case given the circumstances you may be able to convince them to make an exception Nil Einne 20:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yah I figured I could bring my own food, and just oder something off the menu, but when it comes, eat my own stuff I stashed in instead. Apart from looking like a rediculous gag from a Seinfeld episode, as long as I buy their food and dont stay longer than ordinary customer, nothing to gripe about. NoClutter 21:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Could i start a page for runescape?
Could i start a page for runescape? (an online game with over 1 million users )by jagex. plz let me im one of the players.

please tell me on my talk page

thx brendan 20:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There already is a page for Runescape, which redirects to RuneScape. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 20:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, there is not a page for RunEscape... Run! Escape!!! V-Man - T/C 01:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Death on the internet
I was reading about skOt, the guy who said he was going to disconnected a street light on IRC and ended up electrocuting himself as mentioned in Brandon Vedas. I seem to remember a similar incident where someone accidentally killed themselves somehow (i.e. I'm not talking about a suicide or overdose here) and mentioned what they were going to do on the internet (probably IRC)) beforehand (obviously no one knew they were going to die). I.E. some sort of internet famous last words. Anyone have any ideas? Of course maybe it is just skOt I'm thinking about... Nil Einne 20:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Simon Ng was stabbed to death shortly after complaining on his blog that this sister's unsavory ex-boyfriend wouldn't go away. &mdash;Tamfang 03:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There was a thing on bash.org about someone who said he was going to kill himself on IRC, and then it was on the news the day after. Did you mean that? --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * There was a Wikipedian who got banned for a year today for threatening to commit suicide, per WP:ANI. The police were also informed of his threat. Edison 04:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Amount of time a person spends cooking a day
Does anyone know the average amount a time a person spends cooking during a day?

Best Regards, MPcookbook
 * Almost impossible to know but I'm sure you can find estimates (i.e. random figures someone pulled out of their ass). It would be extremely variable since some people don't cook at all. Also, are you talking about a worldwide figure or what? Nil Einne 21:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Many countries perform time use studies such as the American Time Use Study, analyzing the daily time use of a wide variety of activities. It's important to consider whether you're interested in all people (including children, for example) or just people who are cooking. Regardless, ATUS has some public reports on the subject: such as this one, which has details in table one. (About half an hour overall.) As a friendly tip, you may want to Google questions like this first; the above is the very first link that appears when you Google "average amount of time spent cooking". --ByeByeBaby 06:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

how many cookbooks are in publication?
Best regards, MPcookbook
 * Um... 'A lot' is probably the most accurate answer you'll get Nil Einne 21:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually on second thought how about this more then a million, less then a trillion Nil Einne 22:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Amazon.com turns out a result page of around 57,000 for "cookbook," 56..5 thousand of which are actual books. --YbborTalk Survey! 00:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What language? - Mgm|(talk) 11:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The sims 2 pets (gamecube)
How do you become a Werewolf? Is it rare? How often does the wolf leader come to your lot? I realize that there is a artical about this, but it doesn't have what I want to know in it, so if anyone could answer this question, that'd be great! thanks!