Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 August 30

= August 30 =

"Drumming for a song"
For the song "Fading Lights", the last track featured in Genesis's 1991 album, We Can't Dance, what are the percussion fills you would have to follow (like Phil Collins did); what is the musical notation of drumming for that exact song? --Writer Cartoonist 01:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Shipping costs on Ebay
I am a first time seller on ebay. what i am wondering is when i am using a shipping service like United Parcel Service for example, how does the shipping service know that the buyer of an item has paid shipping costs. Do i have to give the shipping service a detail of what has been paid?--logger 04:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, UPS doesn't care who gets paid what as long as they get their money from you when you ship it. Generally, you sell an item and state that the buyer will pay shipping.  So the buyer pays you the shipping and then you use that money to pay UPS to ship it.  That's it.  UPS just takes it from you and delivers it.  They don't care where you got the money.  Dismas |(talk) 05:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

All right i think i get it now. Just seemed confusing.--logger 05:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, on eBay, the routine seems to be: The buyer pays "shipping", the seller then takes the majority of that "shipping" money as "extra profit", and then pays UPS or the USPS a pittance to actually transport the thing.


 * Atlant 12:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically it is "shipping and handling", the latter being an entirely nebulous and subjectively defined category (since you can include the price of your "time" in handling). But I agree that it is often far beyond the actual price of shipping and materials. Sometimes you can even find auctions that are super, super cheap but have outrageous S&H costs, which as far as I am concerned are intentionally meant to be deceptive.
 * But yeah, to answer the original question, figure out how much the object weighs (roughly), figure out how much the shipping will cost (roughly), and add that on the page to the correct place. Then when the buyer pays, that is added to the total price. You don't have to worry about it being exact (as exact rates can vary depending on where it is shipped to), but you want to get it mostly in the right ballpark. If you have overly inflated shipping prices it will cut down on the maximum amount people are willing to bid, as they are taking that into consideration as well. --24.147.86.187 15:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Careful though. I've bought something from a person who listed an item with the postage too cheap, because it turned out that the item weighed a few grams over the boundary between two classes. They explained (after posting it) and I paid the extra, because I'm a nice person and I saw what the weight was listed as when other people were selling this item, but other people might not be so willing to pay if you make the same mistake. Skittle 21:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I haven't bought or sold anything on eBay for a while now but it did used to be the case that sellers were prohibited (under threat of account termination) from listing super-cheap items with super-expensive shipping/handling. I have no reason to think that they'll have changed it (after all, eBay make their money by taking a cut of the final auction price - not including the S+H). If you see someone doing that, report it.
 * The main reason I got sick of eBay was the sheer number of sellers listing items for sale that they did not physically have in their possession to sell at the time of listing and could not obtain for shipping by the end of the auction. Paying, then waiting in vain for two weeks for a parcel to arrive, only to be told "sorry - our suppliers did not have the item in stock, have a refund" (only after emailing myself to find out what was going on) is just NOT F'KIN ACCEPTABLE. This is prevalent amongst music/book/DVD sellers and is the number one issue I would like to see people being banned for. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

p/o name
In the context of bookselling, what is "p/o name"? -- Миборовский 07:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, it hit me 5 seconds later. Previous owner name. :) -- Миборовский 07:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Right. It probably means that their name is printed on the inside cover. Personally I think that is pretty cool at times — it is nice to know that "John Q. Maguffen, Hollywood, California, 1965" owned this book (or something along those lines); it gives you a little sneak peak into its past life. --24.147.86.187 15:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The niftiest example I've encountered was an Icelandic-English dictionary that once belonged to E. R. Eddison (who translated Egils saga). Found it quite unexpectedly while loitering in the library of a private residence.  —Tamfang 08:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * … whose owner has a Wikipedia article, btw. —Tamfang (talk) 01:26, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

A thorough manga question...
I like the Naruto manga. I've calculated when Naruto's Part II aura would end by putting in the number of the final chapter of Kakashi Gaiden (244) and the number of the final chapter of Part I (238). I thought that if Part I ended with 238 chapters, then Part II may end with 238 chapters as well. My little math problem with the chapter numbers equaled to an answer: chapter 482. So, would chapter 482 be where the Part II saga ends in Naruto? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 11:10, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * You should ask this question on the Entertainment Desk instead - you'll get a better answer that way. SteveBaker 11:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

shrinking clothes
Why do clothes shrink?is there any possible way to bring them back to its normal size?does hot water help in bringing them back to there normal size?

thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arya237 (talk • contribs) 11:20, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * This seems to answer your question. --Taraborn 11:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As for stretching them, get them wet and then apply stretching force to them, such as by stuffing wet shoes with newspaper. Wearing tight clothes is another way to stretch them out again. StuRat 04:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * But don't get your hopes up, since the change is generally on the fibre level. You will never get the clothes back to normal, although you might stretch them a bit. Skittle 11:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Chicken Stock
Chicken Stock is usually made with bones. However, does it matter if I just put in a chicken carcass without trimming the meat or the fat? Often, I find my stock tastes a little greasy and I'm wondering if thats why. I still skim the fat regularly and all, but it still has a bit of a funny taste...
 * --Cacofonie 12:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Stock is made from the bones and carcass leftovers because the meat already went to some better purpose ;-). But there's certainly nothing wrong with making your stock out of the better bits. In any case, as you've realized, you probably want to skim the stock several times as it cooks to remove the excess chicken fat (and sometimes, random scum). But another useful approach is to then refrigerate the finished stock and then mechanically remove the layer of fat that congeals at the top of the container.


 * Atlant 12:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You won't get the most flavor out if you just put a whole chicken corpse in the water. At the very least, you'll want to whack it with a cleaver enough to break open the larger bones, but that's still not a great way to make stock.  It would be cheaper, better, and less wasteful to just buy some good authentic stock from Whole Foods or similar.  --Sean 13:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yikes! I hope that: (a) My wife doesn't read this. (b) Sean's physical address is not traceable via the internet.  The violence that can result from telling a French woman that her chicken stock isn't as good as "the crap that Whole Foods sell" is fairly impressive. SteveBaker 14:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Tell her, in my defense, that I thought the poster meant s/he was going to take a whole raw chicken and put it unadorned in a pot of water. I'm also a stock snob, so hopefully she'll give me a reprieve this once.  --Sean 16:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I apologize. By Caracas I simply meant the lefftovers of a roast chicken (so its definately not wasteful!). I just wanted to know whether I should scrape off the meat and the fat.... But i think it is good advice to break open the carcass and bones as they cook as that would help! --Cacofonie 15:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What seasoning are you using? Under-seasoned stock can have rather a "flat" taste. DuncanHill 16:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

No need to remove the meat/fat on a feasted upon chicken - note - no need to skim the fat - wait until the stock is finished and let it cool - the fat will float to the top and probably solidfy - much easier to remove (a fridge helps to solidfy the fat).87.102.14.233 17:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Somebody can probably give you the definative answer on removing the greasy taste - often people add vegetables to the mix while making the stock - maybe that would help if you don't already do it - like 1 onion, and 1 stick celery.. something like that.87.102.14.233 17:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

It's got to be said that chicken stock of itself especially without the other veg/spice ingrediants - doesn't actually taste that good...87.102.14.233 17:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In the method my mother taught me for chicken stock, you don't pick the meat off the carcass until after boiling up the stock, since it makes the stock extra tasty and it's easier to get the bits off afterwards. We make it by putting the carcass in a pot of water with a carrot or two, maybe some leek, potato, seasoning, etc and boiling for a long time. After straining everything out, you can easily get the meat off the carcass to re-add to the soup later (if that's what you're making). Obviously skimming the fat fits in there too :) So this method has worked for us for a very long time, creating tasty soup, leading me to conclude that leaving the meat and fat on during boiling is okay. Skittle 21:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

... and by 'Caracas', I meant carcas, not a Latin American capitol city.... Thanks for the advice everyone. Another question though, I notice alot people say 'boil'. I'd always been told thats it best to simmer! To bring to boil then keep just under a simmer for 3-4 hours. What do you think? --65.94.93.53 23:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Definately simmer, that's what Marguerite Patten says and I trust her implicitly. DuncanHill 09:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, I think it's semantics. I tend to include simmering as a subset of boiling, possibly others don't? Skittle 11:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm shocked. Nigella Lawson uses instant bouillon.  Corvus cornix 16:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

management of machines and materials
explain how the system concept can be used in explaining the term waste and waste management? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.65.196.195 (talk) 17:38, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell a 'system concept' would be an idea/way of looking at things/managing things with things/proceedures/interelationships being broken down/built up/ described in terms of systems.
 * And the term 'waste and waste management' is not explained by a 'system concept'
 * Could you explain again - differently.87.102.14.233 17:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless you meant "describe a waste management plant in terms of systems?" or "use the system concept to explain waste management" something like that??87.102.14.233 17:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If so the page Waste management should help - I'll list a few of the systems involved just in case
 * Waste collection system, waste sorting system, employee wage systems, safety systems, recycling systems.
 * The page system also gives a good description of the different things that can be a system.
 * These systems and others wil have to interact (sometimes called 'interface') with other systems such as safety certification systems..
 * Systems engineering is probably the page to read if you want to know more about the 'system concept'213.249.232.26 18:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Social Security and the death of my Father
This is about what I found out about SS after my Father died. Did you know that the checks are a month behind? Such as the check they recieve in August is for the month of July. Did you know that if the person recieving SS dies before the 1st of the month that SS takes back all of the previous months check. Example: My Father died on July 28, 2007, his SS check for July was deposited (he had auto deposit) on August 1, 2007 and was taken back on August 3, 2007. That's just not right. The money was his, he was alive all but 3 day's of that month. He was living with and taking care of my disabled Sister and had already sent out payment's for his August bill's. If my Sister didn't have me her whole world whould have fell apart. The death of my Father was hard on us, but dealing with the financial aspects was devastating. I can't believe they are aloud to do this. They say more or less that my Father didn't exist the month of July. It's wrong. I want to change it. I think they should at least pro-rate the money. The recievers of SS should get their money for everyday they are alive. I need help. I want to make people aware of this. Everyone I've talked to since my Father's death had no idea the SS system worked this way. I also want to change the law, not sure how to start the ball rolling.I need any and all tip's, hint's, and help. Thank you for your time. Cathy Malone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.141.152 (talk) 18:13, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * I am very sorry to hear of your loss and troubles. Unfortunately, we cannot (and are not qualified to) offer legal advice on Wikipedia, nor is the Reference Desk meant as a forum for political debate or strategizing. That said, I am guessing that, even if the law were in your favor, the cost of hiring a lawyer to recover the money would be greater than your father's monthly check.  You might try contacting your congressperson, who could see about intervening on your behalf to recover the money or, failing that, might be talked into sponsoring a law to insure that this doesn't happen to others.  Marco polo 18:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There are small claims courts in most states. Since the amount is likely in the 3-4k range, you might be able to take it in and have them rule on it.Its quite cheap to do so and states have pamphlets etc to show you how to file. I realize its frustrating and unfair, however, please note that the Soc.Sec. guys carried your father from at least 65 to his passing away, without missing a beat. Something to be said for Uncle Sam on the positive side (I am not a govt. employee). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 19:04, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * The particular provision that governs the payment of a deceased individual's benefits has been part of the law since 1939, according to the Social Security Administration's website:.
 * "...Social Security benefits are not payable for the month in which a beneficiary dies. This applies whether the person dies on the first or the last day of the month. This provision has been in the law since 1939 and can be changed only by an amendment to the Social Security Act. The legislative history of this provision does not show why benefits are not payable for the month of death. However, the provision complements the provision of the law that allows us to pay survivors benefits for the entire month of death."
 * The Social Security Administration has a couple of programs for individuals with disabilities (Link here). You should probably check out their website, visit one of their offices, or consult a qualified expert to determine if your sister is eligible.
 * To change a law requires an act of Congress; as Marco polo suggests, you can speak to your Congressional Representative to get that ball rolling. (Your Congressperson may also be able to offer you other assistance in resolving disputes with the government; their office staff often have experience in navigating the bureaucracy.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fairness has never been a salient feature of SS. &mdash;Tamfang 06:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect info in a movie plot
I just saw the film The Heart Is Deceitful and today I read the article and there is numerous inconstancies and incorrect information and missing information in the large plot. What should be done? Who do I tell. What do I do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.220.2.13 (talk) 20:31, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


 * Our usual advice in similar situations is to Be bold! DuncanHill 20:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * But, if you don't want to edit it yourself, you can bring up those issues on the discussion page for that article. There's no guarantee that others will agree with you and make the change, though. StuRat 04:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Some Commemorative 1904 $20 Gold Coin
My friend at work picked this Gold Coin up on the street. Is there a price guide for it? Is it even worth face value of $20? Sorry, I don't have a digital camera or color copier to show a better pic of the piece. (Used the ole' XeroxWorkcentrePro275 for imaging.) [CLICK HERE] --i am the kwisatz haderach 21:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, Paul, a real double eagle or any gold coin of equivalent size would be worth at least the value of the gold in it, which is a lot more than $20 now &mdash; in which case I would urge your friend to turn the coin over to the police, as the owner might want it back. But as you can see at that link, this coin does not match either of the designs used for real double eagles. I can't google up anything about a real or fake $20 coin showing the Liberty Bell. If it's not a real coin and doesn't really contain precious metal, it might be pretty much worthless. --Anon, 22:18 UTC, August 30, 2007.


 * Additionally the eagle is reversed. The Great Seal of the United States has the eagle facing the other direction and with the arrows/olive branch in opposite feet, and other 1904 coins (i.e. ) have it in the correct fashion. Very odd. I suspect forgery of some sort, not a very good one at that? I'm no coin expert though. --24.147.86.187 22:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's weird though - I mean, making a fake coin is no a small undertaking - you'd have to make dies to stamp them out with and figure out some kind of metal that looks enough like gold. If you were going to that much trouble, surely you'd take the 2 minutes it takes these days to find a photo of the actual coin that you are copying so at the very least you get the eagle facing the right way and the correct picture on the other side!  The actual 1904 double eagle is on sale here for $787.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 00:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Dallas, Texas
How hot can Dallas become? Is it sweltering or moderate? And how flat is the city itself? --Writer Cartoonist 22:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would guess around 100 degrees.  Cheers,JetLover  23:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah - it reliably gets over 100F for a few months every year - fortunately, it's rarely very humid. But you'll certainly want to stay close to freon. In the winter the temperatures are strongly dependent on which way the wind is blowing and temperatures can vary from below freezing to maybe 80F.  Spring is tornado season - but otherwise very pleasant.  Autumn is possibly the best time to visit - weather-wise.  The city is very flat, the only significant hills nearby are off to the SouthWest in Cedar Hill. SteveBaker 23:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * See also: Climate of Dallas, Texas. I don't believe the summer temperatures it mentions - we regularly hit 100F. Steve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 23:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This page, the first reference link from Climate of Dallas, Texas gives a more accurate picture of the climate than the "average temperature" chart in our article. I've never really liked lists of average temperatures, instead preferring listings that include "means of extremes", which the external link shows.  That will give a truer picture of what the climate is really like.  152.16.188.107 08:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep - that's a much better link. The temperature here has hit solid 100F's for weeks at a time for at least the past 13 years I've lived here, although it rarely gets as high as 110F.   I'm surprised that they report that it gets that cool at night either...one of the oddest things about the climate here is stepping outside at 2am and finding that it's STILL like opening an oven door! SteveBaker 16:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

EditThis.info
Soon I'm going to make a Wiki about Ace Combat there, but some of these Wikis get closed down. What is their policy on that? I definatley wouldn't want to have all that work destroyed! Thanks.  Cheers,JetLover  22:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean - if you host your own Wiki, there's no reason anyone other than you would shut it down except if you were hosting something illegal or forgot to renew your domain name or something. Are you talking about Wikimedia projects which have closed, like the Klingon Wikipedia?  Because not all wikis are under the control of Wikimedia, and yours presumably would not be, and thus not at risk of being closed. -Elmer Clark 02:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)