Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 July 21

= July 21 =

Supermarket fruit
I live in the US. A friend of mine recently said that she had heard of supermarkets storing fruits for up to two years before they are sold. I don't really believe it's that long, but how long on average does it take from a fruit being picked to being actually sold in a supermarket? Also, is it possible to preserve a fruit for two years (or how long would it be possible?) and have the taste and texture stay relatively the same? 68.231.151.161 01:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Even if you "preserved" the fruit by canning, drying or freezing, it would suffer deterioration of flavor and appearance over a 2 year period, although it might still be edible. Edison 03:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A very few fruits can (and are) regularly stored for extended periods of time. Under low-temperature, low-oxygen, high-humidity conditions, apples are regularly stored for several months.  However, as far as I know there are no fruits that are stored for years.


 * I suppose that under the right conditions of temperature, humidity, and atmosphere one might be able to store at least some fruits for a couple of years before sale, but as far as I know nobody has developed such technology on any sort of large scale and certainly nobody uses it. It's less expensive to import fresh fruits and vegetables from warmer climates than it would be to build massive climate-controlled warehouses.  The actual amount of time from tree to store shelves depends on the fruit, but probably ranges from several days to several weeks for most.


 * This site has a wealth of information about fruits. Follow the links and scroll down to the section on storage to get an idea of how long many popular fruits can last, and under what conditions.  Strawberries have a maximum storage life of 5 to 7 days, whereas the larger, thicker-skinned grapefruit can be held for more than a month.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 10:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed that apples in the US in plastic bags are never fresh. Some are rotten to the core, but with the skin perfectly preserved. Even those which aren't rotten have a mushy texture instead of a crisp fresh apple texture. I've since decided apples sold in plastic bags are only suitable for feeding pigs. I buy fresh, individual apples or don't buy them at all. I suspect the American apple industry has "shot itself in the foot" by allowing such poor quality apples to be sold, and that apple sales and prices would be far higher had they banned this practice and only sold fresh apples. StuRat 16:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Feasibility of LA-Vancouver
How long would everyone recommend for a driving trip from LA-Vancouver, taking in mind that this'll be taken in early November and that we'd want to stop by Portland and Seattle too. Is there anywhere else that we shouldn't miss at any cost?

AlmostCrimes 03:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You must be excited by the prospect of this road trip. It's difficult to answer because there are way too many variables between point A and point B. For example, your "not to be missed" list is going to change substantially based on:


 * a whole bunch of considerations no one will think of until its too late;
 * how many people will share the driving responsibility;
 * the personal preferences, temperament and budget of travelers;
 * friends and relatives you may know along the way;
 * whether you intend to do all-interstate driving, or are willing to take "back roads" and "scenic" destinations;
 * whether you are interested in "tourist trap" places, or only want to know about what the "locals" consider to be the best; ... and most importantly
 * what on Earth interests you? (fine food? romance? nature and scenic vistas? museums? historic landmarks? skateboard parks? potential change in residence?)


 * The best answer you are going to get without more details is this. Go to Google, and cut-and-paste the following into the search box:

"driving * los angeles to vancouver"


 * The rest is up to your imagination. Have a great trip. dr.ef.tymac 14:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It could be done in a couple long days or so on I-5, I'd expect. I'd want to drive along at least a portion of the coast in California and Oregon for the amazing scenery, sea cliffs, redwood forests, etc. A few years ago we drove from Santa Barbara to Seattle, mostly along the coast and not driving longer than 8 hours or so per day. It took 3 days. Pfly 15:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Google Maps estimates 19 hrs actual drivetime (it's generally rather conservative), so that's two days if you're team-driving and just want to press on, and three for a single driver taking modest breaks. So that's the basic benchmark, a no-fun two/three day deathdrive. Beyond that it's just a function of what you want to see. You could easily spend two weeks on the whole trip depending, as Dreftymac notes, on what you actually want to do.  Some ideas for the SF to LA part:
 * The Sonoma coast and the Russian River
 * Napa/Sonoma, if you're at all into wine. Fancy dining too (the determined and wealthy gourmand may score the French Laundry, but there's sensible places too - Sonoma, California itself is very nice)
 * San Francisco (great museums, eating, scenery, culture, history)
 * detour inland (ideally in an SUV, at the very least a car with snowchains) and:
 * go skiing at Lake Tahoe for a couple of days (much less crowded on weekdays) - the drive from SF is only 4 or 5 hours
 * if you're into gambling combine Tahoe with Reno, Nevada (or, if you're pushed for time, Stateline, Nevada)
 * visit Yosemite, if you like outdoors stuff and brought some warm clothing (while it'll be 60 degrees plus at the coast, it'll be below freezing at Yosemite)
 * personally I think Death Valley is brilliant (much more so than the boring old Grand Canyon) and it'll be nice in November: it's about a day's drive from SF (Beatty, Nevada is a cheap base for Death Valley, and there are some ghost towns nearby. If  you're going out that far you might was well take in Las Vegas too, 1.5 hrs from Beatty),
 * Getting from San Francisco to LA one makes a major decision - take Interstate 5 and be there in a day (don't bother with the cities on I5 between SF and LA) or take the California State Route 1 (the pacific coast highway) and take 3 to 5 days or more (it's a safe road, but it winds an fair amount, sometimes over cliffs, so nervous drivers might have issues with parts of it). I'm going to assume your idea of holidays doesn't consist extreme sensory deprivation and boredom (sorry Fresno) so I'll talk about Highway 1 (and or Highway 101) from now on, rather than I5
 * Half Moon Bay is nice
 * I'd skip San Jose and the Silicon Valley (although Stanford Uni and Palo Alto are quite pleasant)
 * Santa Cruz, California (hippies, boardwalk, surf, beach, although November is a bit late in the year to enjoy the water, which is chilly even in summer)
 * Monterey, California (aquarium is excellent) and nearby Carmel-by-the-Sea, California (expensive shopping, old Mission)
 * Hearst Castle near San Simeon
 * San Luis Obispo
 * Santa Barbara
 * I don't know what people do in LA, other than shoot one another and complain about how bad the valet parking is at Starbucks, but maybe someone less jaundiced might have an idea. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Finlay McWalter's (as usual) well-considered answer is nonetheless proof positive of why you're probably going to have to eventually answer this yourself. For example, he recommended you basically skip everything between San Jose and SFO. I'd actually agree with that, unless you plan to work for a biotech company in the USA, and you want a good idea of where you will probably be spending the rest of your working days (for just one of infinitely many reasons). Also, that region has some of the best moderately-priced restaurants for international cuisine. Similarly, Oregon and Washington have some pretty decent wineries also, some of which are not too far from the I-5 corridor if I am not mistaken. The prices and variety will tend to be lower compared to Sonoma Valley.


 * Relatedly, many of Finlay McWalter's excellent suggestions are nevertheless going to involve considerably much more time waiting in traffic, higher fuel expenses, and more parking hassles than if you wait to do your sight-seeing in Oregon, Washington and Canada (this is the kind of stuff that seems like no big deal until you are actually in it).


 * You might also want to go to your local bookstore and check out the Lonely Planet series for the states in question, or just search their website. dr.ef.tymac 16:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Barring SF (where one should park the car and walk) and LA (which is an irredeemably screwed place) I wouldn't expect any traffic issues anywhere, bar some easily avoidable (Palo Alto rush hour, or the friday night bayArea->tahoe commute).  -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps not, but then compare the definition of "traffic issues" in Castro Valley with those of Cottage Grove or Centralia; night and day. dr.ef.tymac


 * I would recommend, if you decide to go to Death Valley, that you drive there from Los Angeles first, rather than driving all the way to San Francisco and then driving to Death Valley. There are a couple of considerations when you do your drive though: Interstate 5 is a good choice, as is Route 1 along the coast, which is an absolutely beautiful drive all the way up to Santa Cruz.  But another choice is California Highway 99, which is further east than Interstate 5, but passes through more cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Stockton) and therefore has more choices as far as stopping to eat and use facilities (as well as shopping or whatever else you might want to do along the way).  HOWEVER:  In November, both I-5 and Highway 99 can suffer from tule fog, which is a VERY dangerous condition, especially for someone who doesn't know about it.  If the tule fog hits, the best thing to do is to pull over to the right, as far away from traffic as you can go without going into a ditch, and wait it out.  Corvus cornix 20:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you all, that's all been more helpful than I could have hoped to expect. This is catered towards a family of 4, are there any particularly good places to walk for a day, parks, reserves? AlmostCrimes 12:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wildlife Safari in Winston, Oregon is fun. The Oregon Vortex isn't too terribly far from there. A stop at the Oregon Caves might be worthwhile, depends on how old the kids are. Then you can head over to the coast for the Sea Lion Caves and shoot up north to the Oregon Coast Aquarium. That's 2-3 days of fun right there. There really is way too much great stuff to see and do between LA and Vancouver for a hundred trips let alone just one. 161.222.160.8 00:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Redwood National and State Parks and nearby Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park are places I want to go. Should be lots of walking available there, and some of the world's tallest trees! Pfly 01:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

What other US states.................
......besides Texas has "Failure to ID" statutes ? In Texas, the penalty is 180 days in jail, and/or a $5,000 fine, a police record saying that the violator has committed a misdemeanor crime. Was told that "Ignorance of the law is NO excuse" as well. 205.240.146.58 03:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Had a "typo" error. 205.240.146.58 03:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A officer asks "you" for ID. You tell him/her "you" left it in your OTHER wallet, don't have ID, etc., then the cop arrests "you" for "Failure to ID". 205.240.146.58 03:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We aren't allowed to give legal advice on Wikipedia. See a lawyer.  So I can't answer what other states have similar laws.
 * Personally, (and I'm not a lawyer) I think you are VASTLY inflating the seriousness of this. In Texas it seems that there are three separate offences - according to this document, they are:
 * Class A Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (giving false identifying info if fugitive)
 * Class B Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (false identifying info if not a fugitive or no identifying info if a fugitive)
 * Class C Misdemenor - Failure to Identify (with no identifying info given and not a fugitive)
 * So as far as I can tell - so long as you don't give FALSE ID - and so long as you aren't a fugitive - then it's a class C misdemenor which according to this is at most a $500 fine and no jail time and definitely not a $5,000 fine. But this page  says that  this class C case only applies to a person if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person...simply not having your wallet with you isn't enough to get you in trouble.  Firstly he has to have arrested you for some other reason - secondly you must INTENTIONALLY refuse to tell him your name, address or date of birth - or you have to have lied to him (a bad idea since that's a class B misdemenor which WILL get you up to 180 days in jail and up to $2,000 fine).  I don't see where you even have to prove this with an ID card.  But I could easily be wrong - I'm not a lawyer - I just don't want you to present false information because that's even worse than me doing it (at least I have references!)...but check my sources - ask a lawyer.  I think you're panicking over absolutely nothing.  If a cop arrests you for something - just tell him your name, your birthday and where you live...he's going to figure it out sooner or later - and you'll just piss him off by not doing it.  SteveBaker 04:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Unless I have missed something, the question was: What States, aside from Texas, have a "Failure to Identify" statute? I don't think it has been answered. Bielle 05:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We're not allowed to answer legal questions - so I'm not answering it. I don't have a problem with  disagreeing with the (trolling) premise however. SteveBaker 13:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict.) Nonsense. We can answer questions like these; it takes no legal knowledge or understanding to answer, just the ability to do some research. For example, one might note Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, which contains exactly such a list of states. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 14:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, Legal disclaimer specifies that: "WIKIPEDIA DOES NOT GIVE LEGAL OPINIONS" (emphasis in original). Although WP does contain articles touching on legal topics -- analysis of statutes, case law, administrative rules, ordinances, or any other legally operative language is clearly not appropriate here (regardless of whether the contributor is a lawyer). This is especially so if that analysis is claimed to apply to a specific individual or a specific set of facts and circumstances.


 * In contrast, anyone is free to cite references without applying "analysis" to those references or "rendering opinions" based on those references. This is precisely what the reference desk is for.


 * Considering, therefore, that the original question simply asked for references ... and considering that a substantial portion of this thread completely ignores that question, and then goes on to provide the very kind of analysis that it presumes to proscribe (interpreting statutes, giving advice on how to respond, what not to worry about, etc.) all contributors may do well to reflect on their own contributions, and refrain from posting non-responsive "answers" filled with all kinds of dubious "advice" (legal or otherwise).


 * As for the original question, Wikipedia already has articles that you might want to read. These are not a substitute for professional advice. Wikipedia is not the place to go for personal advice. (See e.g., Terry v. Ohio, Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada). dr.ef.tymac 13:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It must be noted that someone may reference a genuine legal opinion, but it may only apply to a given jurisdiction, or it may have been made obsolete by statue or by an appeal to a higher court. A list of which states have which statutes, presented as dicta in an opinion from some court, is not necessarily correct even at the time it is typed up, and some of the states may have changed their laws the next week. As for the sniping at Steve Baker, he correctly pointed out incorrect or misleading assumptions or statements in the original question. Otherwise incorrect information would have been propagated by leaving the question to stand. Edison 20:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I see a list of states in the EWikipedia article about the Hiibel opinion, but not in the opinion itself. Edison 21:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You may want to read Stop and Identify statutes. Jon513 20:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "someone may reference a genuine legal opinion, but it may only apply to a given jurisdiction, or it may have been made obsolete by statue or by an appeal to a higher court"
 * Which is only a tiny sampling of reasons why personalized "legal analysis" is not appropriate in reference desk answers to begin with. Even if the "analysis" were 100% "correct", "applicable" and "authoritative", there's still the not-so-minor UPL contingency to avoid. If someone happens to give references that are completely irrelevant or misleading: Wikipedia makes no guarantee of validity ... caveat inquisitor.


 * "As for the sniping at Steve Baker, he correctly pointed out incorrect or misleading assumptions"
 * The admonition I offered was to "all contributors" (a class of which I myself am a member) so the term "sniping" may be a bit "off the mark". Moreover, "factual corrections" and "advice" are two different kinds of responses. The former does not necessitate the latter. I leave it for others to distinguish which is which. dr.ef.tymac 23:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no idea how things work in Texas and this is obviously not legal advice or a legal opinion, but I would have to agree with Steve here. Very likely, by ID it simply means you have to identify yourself when asked not that you have to provide proof of that identification on the spot. You may be required to provide proof but usually you will be given time to do so e.g. 24 hours. You don't have to provide proof on the spot. If driving, things may be different since often you are required to carry a driver's license with you at all times while driving. Nil Einne 13:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Trolleys
What's inside this part of the trolley?

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1897/trolleywhatnz3.jpg

--4.227.2.16 05:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wooden benches facing inward, and a bit of standing room between, with leather loops to hang onto. (The picture shows a San Francisco cable car, at the foot of California Street.) &mdash;Tamfang 07:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Which, note, is not a trolley car. Trolley cars operate elsewhere in San Francisco. --Anon, July 21, 07:30 (UTC).

Pay per hour
Does anyone happen to know how much a person is paid for having a job at blockbuster video. For those of you who have worked there.--logger 05:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * How about $649,543/yr? Starting pay will vary depending on the locale, but a quick google search turned up starting rates ranging from $9 to $12 per hour.  152.16.188.107 09:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It would help if you told us which country you live in. Rockpock  e  t  18:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In my experience, and with many notable exceptions, Americans tend to be the most ethnocentric editors. Others are used to explicitly identifying their nationality online. So my money is on US Blockbusters. 199.172.246.196 17:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Math riddle
Can anybody help me out with this? It's not homework (it's summer, for crying out loud), just some riddle I found in the Kingdom of Loathing chat. It's really bugging me. Any ideas?

Use the numbers 1, 5, 6, and 7 only once in any combination with unlimited uses of +, -, and * to equal 21.

Thanks in advance - --ParakeetSong 05:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * using some other - somewhat dodgy functions
 * 5!!+6*(1^7)=21


 * where 5!! denotes the two step factorial function (5*3) Thepalm 06:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Less weird, providing decimals are permitted, is 1*6*7*.5 H YENASTE 08:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that (or a variant of it; you can move the decimal point to another number, for example) is the expected answer. The idea is that you're supposed to read the problem as requiring that the four digits and instances of the permitted operators are the only characters you're allowed to put in the expression. I actually wrote a quickie program to test all such combinations, including ones like 16+5*-7 where two or more digits or operators were adjacent, and nothing evaluated to 21.

Then I realized that the problem says nothing about the use of characters that are not numbers or operators.

(Of course, .5 is not the same "number" as 5 in the mathematical sense, but that's a quibble; it's reasonable to use "number" to refer to a digit as well.)

--Anonymous, July 21, 08:15 (UTC).


 * Cool, thanks for the help!--ParakeetSong 07:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Harry Potter - Deathly Hallows - not a spoiler - instead a question about book-pricing.
Here in the UK we have seen ASDA a national superstore chain, part of Walmart, apologise to Bloomsbury the HP UK publishers, for attacking the planned recommended retail price of Deathy Hallows at £17.50. After accepting the apology and restoring ASDA's 500,000 copies on the understanding that ASDA would charge the discounted price of £8.50, ASDA immediately took posession of their allocation and reduced the price to £5 per copy. So, in brief, who gets what from the sale of a book? There are publishers, printers, distributors, PR people, advertising, lawyers, stores, and oh, I nearly forgot, J.K. Rowling, the authoress. I accept that every book will have different formulae attached, but can ASDA sell a book at £5 and still pay Bloomsbury their asking price? Thanks.


 * ASDA is almost certainly selling the book as a loss leader, hoping it'll a) generate publicity (it has: people are even asking questions about it on Wikipedia) and b) you'll go into the store to buy your £5 copy and you'll buy other stuff. ASDA know that many many people have never been inside an ASDA, or haven't been for a long time, so getting you to come (and inevitably walk around and price other stuff) carries a healthy chance they'll convert someone to being a new regular customer.  As to pricing - retail markup on stuff is generally around 100%, but a big purchaser like ASDA (who will also buy lots of other, less popular, books from Bloomsbury, and can chose to put them in prominent places or less prominent places) will be able to negotiate a steep discount.  So maybe ASDA are paying £5 or £6 for the book (although the incur costs in shipping, stocking, and selling the book, so their real cost is a pound or two more than that).  As to Ms.Rowling: typically an author might make £1 to £2 from that £17.50, but she has unprecedented bargaining power and seems to be a shrewd negotiator, so she may have negotiated a higher rate. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I read somewhere (I think it was the Guardian a couple of days ago) that Bloomsbury supply the book at £10.76 a copy, and pretty much all the supermarkets are selling it as a loss-leader. Ms Rowling, of course, will get her not-insubstantial cut from Bloomsbury. -- Arwel (talk) 11:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Tesco are offering the book for £10, or £5 if the customer spends £50 in the store. This would point to a "loss-leader" of sorts. -=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 20:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Those little plastic monster fingerpuppets from the 90s
What is the name of those little monster things that went on the end of your finger that were popular in the 90s? They were spikey and made of soft translucent plastic and came in bright flurorescent colours and had their mouths wide open with little spikey arms flailing? --58.170.212.62 15:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Finger monsters? This seems to be an up-to-date version, which means that they don't quite look like the ones I remember. These look a bit closer to my old ones. Skittle 15:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The meaning of life?
Could someone please help me out with the meaning of life? --Don217 18:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See The meaning of life for the philosophical debate about this question. Rockpock  e  t  18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in the eponymous book by Douglas Adams which discusses the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. There is also a Monty Python film: The Meaning of Life, and a book by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd called The Meaning of Liff. -=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 20:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See this for a comprehensive and definitive meaning of life... Laïka  21:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Also by Douglas Adams: The Meaning of Liff and The Deeper Meaning of Liff. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.stat.pitt.edu/stoffer/dss.html#F
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=TCAUagXFG4sC&printsec=frontcover#PPA27,M1 Gzuckier 17:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)




 * I believe the one who posted the photo above is referring to the article on Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything, a in joke from The Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy.
 * On a more serious note, The Purpose Driven Life is a great book for people looking for the meaning of life from a Christian perspective. Since our article on the novel is notoriously biased against it for the time being, it's probably better that you go and see the book for yourself. It's been on the New York Times Bestseller list for quite some time. --JDitto 19:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

What is faster mph jaguar or bentley?
Probably Jag. --Don217 18:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Which Jag ? Which Bentley ? Actually the big Bently is one of the fastest cars so I suspect it would leave the biggest Jag behind.90.9.83.210 15:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)DT

grading Alevel papers with absent in a component
how does normally Cambridge international examination marks an Alevel paper with an absence in a part of component, despite getting students ungraded? and what is the use of expected grades in this process? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)
 * Take a look here and if it doesn't help, try asking them not us Nil Einne 13:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Trying to identify a smoking pipe.
I have no clue who to talk to, but wikipedia does seem a great source of information, and it's a large community. So hopefully my little fact finding mission can stir the right information up. I've tried looking elsewhere, and tried a few different searches here... but apparently there's some difficulty in tracking down might-no-longer-exist companies and their products. I'm not sure they're around anymore, but I think I've at least identified the right company so far. I found a pipe on a beach, I forget which beach, but it was on the East Coast of the United States, northern... anyhow, the pipe was mostly intact, well enough to read most of what was written on it (most of). For instance, on one side of the stem-thinger, it says "T 78" and some space between before: "W White" On the other side of the stem it says "Glasgow" Well I checked it out, and W White and Sons was a pipe company out of Glasgow Scotland, that exported a lot of pipes, so that much is likely. It also had a large D on the actual bowl, thinger, whatever it's called of the pipe... the space before it was chipped. It's a very plain, white pipe, the sort of 'standard' pipe I kept finding of "W White" but I couldn't identify how old or any other information on it. The D could be part of someones initials, I suppose... but the T 78? Model, I guess, but whether it is or not I can't find any strong information on W White or their pipes. The little information I did get says the pipe could be from anywhere between 1805 and 1955, if the site was accurate. Which leads me to believe the company was sold, or what-not, which doesn't help me with the actual indentifying of the pipe... Oh, the T 78 might be a T Z8, the 7/Z/whatever it might be is in question as well.

I suppose my question is whether anyone has any useful bits of information, or suggestions on how I can get such bits of information on the pipe (or W White, which might lead me to it) 74.75.135.23 18:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I found an archaeological report online which mentioned clay pipes made by W White of Glasgow, and referenced "Oswald, A., 1975. Clay Pipes for the Archaeologist. British Archaeological Reports, Oxford". DuncanHill 22:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll have to check it out. Thank you! I think I'll make a binder of all the bits of information I find, because something tells me I'm going to end up browsing some libraries. Good place to find odd books with odd information.74.75.135.23 16:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Kangaroo Leather - Interstate Commerce
Was wondering if the FTC or other entity regulating interstate commerce would trump California law for importation of kangaroo leather. Maybe that's a legal question but it seems general enough - federal law trumps state law.


 * Are there specific laws on the subject or is this a theoretical excercise? 68.39.174.238 22:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * California prohibits import of kangaroo leather goods for sale, but they are available for sale in other states.
 * That is what's puzzling.
 * When did that law go into effect? When Charlie O. Finley owned the Oakland Athletics, they wore kangaroo leather shoes.  Corvus cornix 21:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 653o. (a) It is unlawful to import into this state for commercial purposes, to possess with intent to sell, or to sell within the state, the dead body, or any part or product thereof, of... kangaroo, ...
 * (c) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be subject to a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) and not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed six months, or both such fine and imprisonment, for each violation.
 * (d) The prohibitions against importation for commercial purposes, possession with intent to sell, and sale of the species listed in this section are severable. A finding of the invalidity of any one or more prohibitions shall not affect the validity of any remaining prohibitions.

shia population
what is the near to exact(reliable) total of shia population in world by 2007, country wise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)


 * Try Adherents.com Algebraist 22:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't know - but rapidly diminishing?

green tea?
i have heard having 3-4 cups of green tea in summer (temprature around 45' centigrade) can make u seriouly ill bcoz green tea makes ur body very warm from inside/

is that true —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk • contribs)


 * 45 degrees Celsius? You would be sick quick if you DIDN'T drink any liquid. For the green tea matter, that is absolute rubbish, as it won't change your core temperature by much (you will be more likely to die from water intoxication from drinking too much tea than drinking so much tea that your body can't cope with the elevated temperature). --antilivedT 21:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Humans vs Dogs again
Sorry for putting this thing up again, I have read most of the discussion about the subject in theese pages but noone have mentioned the fact that dogs can be tricked to run away if you throw something at them. Even if you pretend that you go down, grab something and throw it at them they are likely to stop or even run away. I have been knowing this since childhood, I have used it to defend myself few times. There is also an old movie (one about a guy in Alaska who pet a wolf durring the gold times) which mentions somewhere that dogs admire human's ability to grab and throw things (which is something they can't do) so when you do it (or pretend to do it) you remind them of who is superior and thus they panic. So the first questiong is do you agree with that? is there somewhere a reference? And the seccond question: what is the name of the movie, it's good movie I want to watch it again! racergr 19:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is pretty baseless to speculate as to whether dogs "admire" humans for any particular reason. And they certainly don't necessarily panic when you throw things — most of the time they just want to play fetch, and probably enjoy chasing things (chase instinct is pretty common in predator-like animals). My dog can be fooled once, but usually not twice in a row. And my dog can also throw things if she wants do by grabbing it in her mouth and tossing it (obviously the shape of the thing in question can help). --24.147.86.187 22:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I think I made clear that I'm speaking about throwing something against them in an attempt to hit them, which is something that a dog cannot do. Has anyone else heard about that or is it just an urban legend? --racergr 01:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dogs do not have that level of intelligence. I would venture that the dog runs away because it doesn't want to get hit by a thrown object. - Woo ty   [ Woot? ]  [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam! ] 00:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A handy tool for dog training is the "throw-chain"; the name suggests a spare chain collar, but often it's a beverage can with a few pebbles inside; I used to use my keychain. Should have some heft, and make noise. Anyway, in the initial stages of training a dog, when you call him/her to come and he/she runs away instead, you heave this thing at their hind end. The major trick is not to let them see you throw it. If you do it correctly, they come to believe that you can reach out and smack their rear from 20-30 feet away. So, no, they do not have an intuitive understanding of throwing something; but they do learn quickly ways in which you have superior capabilities, even if they are actually wrong. Gzuckier 17:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Will cleveland become to city to be?
cleveland seems to be at the center of attention is this true? whats the crime like? --Mistrel4life 20:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Horrible. In the 1920s and/or 1930s they had a psycho who murdered and cut up people. 205.240.146.58 21:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The sicko even took human flesh to a butcher shop. 205.240.146.58 22:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Center of attention? Where? Anyway, that was MANY years ago, but if you want to read about it anyway... Cleveland Torso Murderer. 68.39.174.238 22:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that was obvious since 205 made it clear it was in the 1920s/1930s Nil Einne 13:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Prevention of Hoaxes (Reference Desk queries) Act 2007
Me again, with another questionable location tagged as a hoax. Anyone from New York (Center) that really knows the place? Someone thinks that Ansonia, Manhattan is a fraud and an opinion from knowledgeable people would help. Thanx, 68.39.174.238 21:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Whether it is a fraud or not, the fact that it includes the sentence "the name is not popular and its use would be likely to be met with confusion and strange looks" probably means that it is not notable enough for an enyclopedia article. --24.147.86.187 22:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "Ansonia New York" -hotel returns 28 hits on Google, "Ansonia Manhattan" returns 22. Either a hoax or a completely non-notable alternative name for this place. I'd AFD it. I come across hoaxes related to pop music relatively frequently (completely made-up albums and singles) - sometimes I wish that WP would crack down harder on the people that create this stuff. --Kurt Shaped Box 22:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanx to whoever fixed it and the infoes. 68.39.174.238 18:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)