Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 May 6

= May 6 =

leading people on
"leading people on" what are the generally accepted rules about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.12.216 (talk • contribs) 01:19, 6 May 2007


 * Can you please provide some context for your question? --  JackofOz 02:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That, a sig, title. 205.240.146.147 02:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

"Leading people on" often means deceiving them into believing there is a possibility of a romantic relationship to get something from them. It could also mean deceiving them in some other way, such as the promise of a job. Can you be more specific about how you mean it ? StuRat 06:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The general rule I am familiar with in that kind of scenario is that you will be treated similarly to a clove smoker. V-Man - T/C 00:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

In the News:
Did you guys know that 1/2 of Kansas has been destroyed, and that the tornado weather is still going on ? A small city has been destroyed by a tornado. This has been on FOX News, other news outlets for several hours now. 205.240.146.147 05:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That's terrible. A.Z. 05:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Half of Kansas is an exaggeration, it looks like there are 9 dead: StuRat 06:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Does Wikipedia have an article on that? A.Z. 06:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The inclusionists can rejoice... sort of... May 2007 Tornado Outbreak Dismas |(talk) 06:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh no Toto how are we ever going to get home to Aunt Em? Lemon martini 09:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Half of my state has been destroyed? News to me. -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 09:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * "95% of the town of Greensburg, Kansas" is pretty impressive. An article about this sort of tornado outbreak is perfectly justified, and the inclusionist comment is not necessary. Carcharoth 15:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The comment saying that inclusionists defend the existence of articles that are not perfectly justified is not necessary :-) A.Z. 19:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Melodrama
i have been looking on the net for some help with me drama work, but i'am having trouble telling what is junk and what is not!!! i need to describe for the Hero, Villin and Heroine, their main personalitys, their appearance, costume, the type of movements and voice (eg hero- courageous, noble and strong. eye-catching, bright, vibrant and flashy. walks with confidence, and speaks loudly). i need to give 5 locations that might be found in a melodrama(eg villian's hideout, hero's base, and heroine's home). i need to describe 3 types of special effects(eg spotlight). i need to give 3 examples of stage machinery. and last of all i need 3 ways that melodrama reflected/mirrored victorian society. you help will be greatly appreciated. thanks for you time. POKEMON RULES 07:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you read our article on melodrama? There are good example of some classic film melodrama there, including The Perils of Pauline with the damsel in distress being famously left, tied to a railroad, with a train approaching! (see the video here.) There are also examples of Victorian stage melodramas that you can research. Rockpock  e  t  07:38, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I remember seeing a production of Love Rides The Rails 35 years ago and it is very funny. The Perils of Penelope Pitstop is a fine example of the genre. --TrogWoolley 09:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
While reading his page it struck me as odd theres not one reference to the Kurdish genocides he performed or at the very least pointed to the "alleged" ones what happened to them on wikipedia? Joneleth 10:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't find many references to genocide at all in any of the Kurdish articles, which to me indicates a heavy bias. As one might know, in Turkey this is an extremely sensitive topic, and Wikipedians should deal with this kind of (that I assume is) censorship. All that the History of the Kurdish people article mentions, briefly near its very end, is
 * "Some of the Kurdist groups sought self-determination and the championing in the Treaty of Sèvres of Kurdish autonomy in the aftermath of World War I, but the Turkish resurgence under Kemal Atatürk prevented such a result. Kurds backed by the United Kingdom declared independence in 1927 and established so-called Republic of Ararat. Turkey suppressed Kurdist revolts in 1925, 1930, and 1937 - 1938, while Iran did the same in the 1920s." 81.93.102.185 11:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Daily life for ordinary folk in Iran
What is life like for ordinary folk in Iran? I am thinking about employment and educational opportunities; going to the cinema/theatre; watching world events on TV; using the internet; health care and retirement; and expressing one's views on government and religious policies. Thanks in anticipation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.217 (talk) 14:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * We have articles which cover almost all of your questions: see economy of Iran, labour and tax laws in Iran (especially the section on Social Security), education in Iran, cinema of Iran, censorship in Iran (specifically Internet censorship), health care in Iran, and human rights in Iran. Unfortunately, I can't find anything about Iranian theatre or about foreign TV channels, although we do have a short list of List of Persian language television channels. I'll leave other contributors to fill in more details. Laïka  15:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Laika, but with respect, I was actually looking for something more factual and less heavily "Iranianised". But thanks anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.164 (talk) 00:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC).


 * If you could explain what you mean by 'factual and less heavily "Iranianised"', perhaps we would be able to help you. Skittle 18:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Skittle - I trust you jest - you sound like many other Wiki purists who need to have the basics of waking up in the morning explained to you. Iranianised means exactly that - i.e. the articles I was referred to were clearly so heavily slanted and sanitised (probably by their Supreme Leader)(though I remain extremely grateful to Laika for her efforts) as to be akin to the old-fashioned Agricultural Output Reports as published by the USSR Politburo. But never mind, I shall instead seek out the truth at my local library. Enjoy your reality snooze though. Sorry to have disturbed you.


 * Actually I don't jest. You could have meant "too much about Iran" by "Iranianised", you could have meant "too much discussion-based", as a balance to "factual"; it not being a standard word, you could have meant anything. That is why I asked for clarification. And having read the bits in the articles on censorship and such-like, I find it hard to believe that anyone would thinkg the articles were 'sanitised' by Iran! If, however, you mean that the articles do not tell you what you already believe you know, I don't think we can help. Skittle 12:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Longest discovery times for aircraft wreckage?
I've been reading about two recent aircraft crashes that took place over uninhabited terrain, and which took a long time to be discovered. The main debris field for Adam Air Flight 574 was apparently not discovered for a month, while they are still searching in dense jungle for the wreckage of Kenya Airways Flight 507. I find it rather scary that it can take that long to discover wreckage. I suppose the world is not as small as modern telecommunications makes it seem. So my question is what is the longest time it has taken to discover aircraft wreckage? I know some of the early aviation pioneers disappeared with little trace, such as Amelia Earhart, and examples of that would be welcome as well, but I am really asking about modern airline crashes of large aircraft involving many people, as opposed to small aircraft and only a few people. Any other famous cases of missing aircraft where the wreckage was only found much later, or never at all? Carcharoth 14:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * WWII plane wreck sites are being found until today, see, , , etc. These have discovery times of over 50 years. Hope this helps. Cheers, Dr_Dima.


 * Those are interesting. Thanks! I had forgotten the WWII crashes (though the second one you point to was 1947). And as your second and third examples show, 'high in the mountains' is another area for lost plane crashes. I'm still wondering whether any modern airlines disappeared completely. I'm sure I remember a case of airliners sending out distress calls over the Pacific or Atlantic, and only small traces of wreckage being found, if at all. In the case of terrorist bombings, maybe not even a distress call would have time to be transmitted. Carcharoth 16:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know if the Star Tiger and Star Ariel fit your requirements for "modern" (lost in 1948 and 1949, respectively) or "involving many people" (29 and 20 passengers, respectively), but there's another two examples of a wreck that was never found... Carom 16:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It does, thanks. "It is not implausible that the aircraft was simply flown inadvertently into the sea in total darkness." - pfft. Gone. Without a trace. Carcharoth 17:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Northwest Airlines Flight 2501 disapeared without trace, Star Dust was missing for years, a Canadian Pacific Airlines plane has been missing since '51 (all aboard considered legally dead, no article as yet exists) and Flying Tigers Line Flight 739 has been missing with 107 people since 1962. That's the best I can do for now ;-). Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Wonderful! Thanks for those. We should definitely have an article on that missing flight from 1951. Carcharoth 17:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There's a bit of information about the CPA '51 crash at planecrashinfo.com. (This is a very good site for this sort of information; they've got the the '62 Flying Tiger Line crash, too.) --Steve Summit (talk) 23:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The UK reconnaisance pilot Adrian Warburton flew his plane into a ploughed field in Bavaria in 1944, and despite witnesses to the crash, the wreckage including his remains went in so deep that it was not discovered until 2002. JackofOz 21:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

What about the very first plane, where the person that made it died before he got to show it to anyone, and they found it in his workshop a long time later.


 * Sounds like an urban legend, and even if it is true, he obviously would've been able to 'show it to someone' before he died, unless he fastened a bolt with his dying breath. Otherwise, he obviously didn't have it working, thus it doesn't count -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 22:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The engine broke as investors were coming to see him. He was going to fix it when he got back.


 * Sounds like an urban legend to me. -- Charlene 00:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually it isn't a legend
 * LAWL V-Man - T/C 23:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

What's that radio telescope?
The cover of the new Editors single, "Smokers Outside The Hospital Doors", shows a multiple exposured image of a radio telescope or satellite dish. However, the image is rather distorted by the multiple exposures. Any ideas which dish it may be? Laïka 15:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It could be one of the dishes in the Very Large Array--Diletante 15:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Or possibly Jodrell Bank? --Richardrj talkemail 15:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks more like VLA, but really, it is just meant to be a generic radio telescope. Unless you can find a source that says specifically what it is, I dont think much can be added here. Carcharoth 16:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I though Jodrell Bank at first, but Jodrell is an altazimuthal scope, meaning that the supports are attached to the sides, not the back. I think the VLA seems like a good fit: both images have the large staircase and the star-shaped supports. Laïka  16:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Underground bridges
At one point in the new Spider-Man film, New York subway trains are seen crossing rickety wooden bridges in a vast underground cavern, with multiple lines criss-crossing at different levels. Do such systems of underground bridges exist in real life, either in New York or anywhere else? Laïka 15:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope, complete fiction, much like the above ground 2nd Avenue subway line that appears in the second film-- VectorPotential Talk 16:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's meant to be a nod towards the old Elevated railway or EL as it was known, which no longer exists.hotclaws 23:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

There are real-life underground bridges in at least two places on the Paris Métro. They certainly aren't rickety wooden structures, but one of them does involve a criss-crossing of three lines. This is under the Place de l'Opéra, the square south of the Opéra Garnier, where the three lines serving Opéra station cross at a single point. Line 3 (shallowest below ground at this point) follows Rue Auber and Rue du Quatre Septembre, Line 7 (middle depth) follows Avenue de l'Opéra and Rue Halévy, and Line 8 (deepest) follows the Boulevard des Capucines. Line 3 was built first, but the other two lines were already planned, so a shaft down to the level of Line 8 was dug, with two levels of underground bridges for Lines 3 and 7 to cross it. Line 3 opened in 1904 and the others a few years later.

The second place is invisible to passengers, because the underground bridge structure is fully enclosed, but it actually includes at least one station. This section is on Line 7 bis. The area was mined for gypsum until the mid-19th century, creating large caverns with pillars of gypsum left in place to support the ground above, then filled with rubble when they were abandoned. The line traverses the former Carrière (Quarry) des Buttes-Chaumont near the station of the same name, and the former Carrière de l'Amérique at Danube station. It takes the form of an underground covered bridge standing on concrete pillars. Danube station is on one of these bridges (so it's an underground elevated station); I'm not clear whether Buttes-Chaumont also is, or if it's just near one. This section opened in 1911, originally as a branch of Line 7.

(Sources: Jean Tricoire, Un Siècle de Métro en 14 Lignes: De Bienvenüe à Météor, 2nd edition 2000 (Éditions La Vie du Rail), ISBN 2-902808-87-9; Jean Robert, Notre Métro, 1st edition 1967 (La Musée des Transports Urbains (AMTUIR)).)

--Anonymous, May 7, 2007, 00:06 (UTC).

Surgeon's headgear in cartoons
When you see surgeons in cartoons, they often have a kind of silver disc strapped to their forehead. What is this supposed to be, and did surgeons ever wear them for real? --Richardrj talkemail 15:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. They are reflectors, similar to those worn by dentists. They are, I think, designed to reflect light towards the area being examined, leaving the surgeon's hands free to slice, cut, repair and sew. Carcharoth 16:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is one on e-Bay. Carcharoth 16:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And they are still in use today. You can buy one here if you want! Carcharoth 16:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And here is another one. Carcharoth 16:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you supposed to peep through the hole, or does a lighbulb go there? -- Diletante 16:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I think the hole was used to attach it to the strap with something like a button. The idea was to reflect bright operating room lights onto the area of concern.  Modern doctors sometimes also use bright lights on their heads to light the area.  This is especially needed for microsurgeons, since magnification reduces the light level. StuRat 16:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Just FYI: The modern surgical headlights tend to be fiber optic systems with a remotely-mounted lamp so they can convey lots of light without toasting the surgeon's brains.


 * Atlant 14:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Can we hve a wiki rticle on it?--Kirby♥time 05:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm, Reflector (medical) is not linked from the Reflector disambig page. WP:RDAC time! V-Man - T/C 01:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Which DSLR
Canon EOS 400D or Nikon d40x? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Colinjr (talk • contribs) 16:13, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * I persoanally prefer Cannon equipment generally, but I've been using it for years due to a massive investment in lenses the origins of which predate those cameras, so I might not be the best source. Anyone? Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This should help you a bit, but it's also a bit Nikon centric. --antilivedT 04:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I heard sports photographers are Canon crazy but most other areas of photography like Nikons better.

Roms for SNES emulator
Where can i get some roms. (if ur worried about legal stuff w/ wikipedia, its not illegal cuz im only gonna download roms of games that i own.) Please help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.175.122.134 (talk) 18:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Copyright law is not that simple. I doubt you have a licence for multiple copies of the software and it defiantly wouldn't cover you acquiring pirate copies. No one here is going to provide you with pirate software. --Phydaux 19:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This is entirely incorrect. You CANNOT download ROMs just because you own the game. Copyright only covers your ability to CREATE a backup, not have one, which is unlicensed, on top of the fact that the backup rule may not apply to video games. Please do not ask wikipedia to assist you in piracy, it's not that hard to do it yourself -- Phoeba WrightOBJECTION! 21:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * edit conflict There are some retail stores that support the trade-in of used games to be sold to other people. I suspect some day there will be legislation against such stores because it is too easy for people to break the rules, such as not delete from their computer the game they supposedly are trading in. User:AlMac|(talk) 21:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ignoring the legal question for the moment, did you even try googling before you came here? FiggyBee 06:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

old US army jeeps
does any1 know where to find an old us army jeep from? (the khaki, moss green ones with the star roundel on the side doors) kinda like the ones in the catch 22 movie or something like that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.42.36.29 (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Ebay is the first thing that comes to mind.. Also you might want to check the article on Jeep to look for a specific model numbers of Jeeps at during that time (WW2 ~1940-1950). That will help you narrow down your search. —  Mitaphane  ? 20:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The Jeep you are looking for is a Willys Jeep. There is one on ebay right now - cheap - but in need of restoration: here SteveBaker 22:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Apparently Mahindra & Mahindra Limited still builds the CJ-3B, based on the WWII jeep. There's also a lot of CJ-5s and 6s still around, based on the vietnam-era jeep.  Or were you necessarily looking for an ex-military vehicle? FiggyBee 06:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Blond Mafia
I am totally sorry to be troubling you guys with my J.T. Cornell questions, but I really, really promise that this is the last time that you all will hear from me.

Who does Blond Mafia consist of? Eric Hartley--12.18.90.2 23:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What appears to be their website is at [www.myspace.com/blondmafia]. Unfortunately, if this information is there, then it's hidden somewhere I can't access without myspace membership. The pictures seem to imply there are two of them. Algebraist 19:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

% Cocaine and Heroin production in Mexico
What, if any, is the percentage of Cocaine & Heroin produced in Mexico, or is it all transported through Mexico from South America? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.86.60.192 (talk) 23:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Per our articles Cocaine and Heroin, virtually all cocaine is produced in South America. However, Mexico is a significant producer of heroin.  Marco polo 23:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Per this U.S. government source, Mexico and Colombia together accounted for less than 4% of global heroin production, but most of the production for the U.S. market. It also states that Mexico produces 30-40% of the heroin consumed in the United States. Marco polo 23:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Just by-the-by, most of the world's illegial opium/heroin is grown in Afghanistan and Myanmar. Legal opium for the pharmaceutical industry is grown in Tasmania, India and Turkey. FiggyBee 06:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)