Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 7

= September 7 =

Secure Encryption systems
Are there any encryption systems, except for one-time pads, that are absolutely impossible to break? Acceptable 00:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There are no encryption systems at all, including one-time pads, that are absolutely impossible to break, if by "break" you mean simply "recover the plaintext". After all, you might just correctly guess the plaintext, and that would constitute breaking the system.
 * The unique thing about a one-time pad is that the ciphertext provably gives you no information at all about whether you've correctly guessed the plaintext. I'm fairly sure you can't get that property with any cryptosystem whose key length is shorter than the ciphertext (assuming they're in the same alphabet). A cryptosystem with that long a key might as well be a one-time pad, as that's simplest anyway. --Trovatore 00:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If the key is longer than the cyphertext, it's still possible to break it, if the key was not randomly generated. A crucial element of a one-time pad is that the pad is generated truely randomly. --67.185.172.158 06:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Quantum cryptography can be used to generate and transmit a completely random (in the quantum sense) one-time pad - the result is truly, utterly unbreakable. You can't even intercept the transmission of the pad without one of the users finding out that you did that. SteveBaker 20:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Hacking my Hotmail password
Suppos edly ing I ran a contest with a very large prize asking some of the world's best computer hackers to hack or gain access into my Hotmail e-mail account. Assuming that these hackers are anonymous and do not know me nor my personality and receive no other hints other than my e-mail address of course, how will they go about doing this? Acceptable 01:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There are two different sorts of answers here.
 * One is that it is actually pretty easy to design an "unbreakable" code -- in isolation. If I post a small scrap of ciphertext encrypted by my sooper seekrit new encryption algorithm, and challenge the world's top cryptanalysts to break it, they'll refuse, even if I offer a large cash prize.  The reason is simply that this isn't enough information to break the code.  But that doesn't mean it's truly unbreakable, of course -- once I or my cohorts actually start using the code to communicate, then there will be enough information for someone to crack it, if it's worth it to them.  (The point is that if you make a hacking problem narrow enough, not even the best hackers can hack it -- but this doesn't mean that they're no good, or that you're smarter than they are.)
 * But to return to your question: just because you're anonymous doesn't mean they can't track you down. (Remember, all's fair in a contest like this.  Your opponents are not going to say, "Oh.  Dang.  He's anonymous, so none of our attacks will work.  We give up, then."  They're allowed to attack you from some direction you never thought of.  They're allowed to cheat and break the rules.)  They could hack into Wikipedia (or ask a Wikipedia admin friend they happen to have) to find out your IP address.  Then they could hack your ISP (or just sniff your internet traffic) to notice which Hotmail account you use.  Then all they have to do is hack that hotmail account (which will be especially easy if they saw your password while they were sniffing your traffic). —Steve Summit (talk) 03:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There are a number of techniques I'd try.
 * I'd look for a cross-site scripting vulnerability in Hotmail that would let me get access to your current session or login details.
 * I'd send phishing emails to try to trick you into giving me the password to your account.
 * I'd send phishing emails to try to get login details for other accounts you have, and look for a pattern.
 * I'd look for security holes in the Hotmail system that would let me take control of the whole system (and, as a result, your account).
 * I'd try a brute-force search to guess your password.
 * I'd try bribing someone who works at Hotmail to give me access.
 * If all else fails, I'd apply rubber-hose cryptanalysis to the problem.
 * --67.185.172.158 06:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Any password can be brute-force searched, so unless the password strength toggle on your "change password" screen is green (strong), it probably wouldn't take long at all (if you password is "hello", it is a lot easier to crack than "th1s15as3CuR3407Ma!lPaSsWoRd"). Laïka  09:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

In all likelyhood the bad guy could figure out the IP address of your PC and (assuming it's a Windows machine) it'll have a bazillion ways in for a determined hacker. Once in, he can install a keystroke monitor and figure out everything you type. From that point on, it's just a matter of time until you next log in to your Hotmail account. Of course if you don't enter your password every time and let the browser remember it instead - then it'll be even easier to hack because the password will be sitting there in a file someplace. SteveBaker 19:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * lol scary... Acceptable 16:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * ...and just one of the many reasons I use Linux. I also run my own mail server so my email password stays within my machine. SteveBaker 15:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Entice you to start an account for something else, and see if you use the same password (lots of people do).Polypipe Wrangler 11:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Most Calories in one container?
I noticed that my wedge of cheese had 1100 Calories, and my container of ice cream had 2880 Calories. It seems like a lot, but is there any regular, non-industrial-sized, food product that contains even more Cal than these? H YENASTE 01:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The most Calories (per gram) are fats (9 kcal per g). So technically, a container of oil would be chock-full o' calories (1 litre oil = a bit less than 1 kilogram so almost 9000 kcal per container). Mind you, I don't know that you'd count cooking oil as a food product per se. -- Flyguy649 talk contribs 01:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A pound of butter has around 3200 Calories. anonymous6494 01:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Olive oil has 1,909 calories per cup. You can get 3-liter bottles of olive oil. Three liters is 12.68 cups. So that's 24,206 calories! -- Mwalcoff 03:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a five-pound container of butter in my refrigerator. It's got 16,500 calories in it.  In my pantry is a 20-pound sack of flour, with 30,000 calories. --67.185.172.158 06:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know about op, but I'd only count food that I can eat without getting sick, so I wouldn't qualify tubs of butter and oil myself. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 02:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

My Unanswered Question about the Golden State Warriors
My Question Was How Did The Nba Team "The Golden State Warriors" Got Their Name? I Looked It Up, But I Didn't Find What Could Answer My Question. I Hope You Can Answer My Question. Thanks For Your Help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.211.141.227 (talk) 04:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, what exactly are you trying to find out? Do you want to know why it's "Golden State Warriors", or are you wondering about the "Warriors" bit? The first is just some geographical indication; they were originally named "Philadelphia Warriors", see Golden State Warriors. This site claims they were named "Warriors" after an earlier ABL team also named "Philadelphia Warriors". However, also see (warning: that site is a wiki and even runs the MediaWiki software, but they say their contents were copyrighted). See also . All this leaves me somewhat confused about Eddie Gottlieb's teams. But anyway, they probably chose "Warriors" because they wanted something "heroic" or pathetic. Imagine calling a team "the wimps". :-) But why "warriors" and not "fighters", "winners" or some other term that indicates competitiveness and that has positive connotations in the sports world, I don't know. (I continue to be astonished about team names such as "Ducks", "Young Boys", "Young Fellows", or "Grasshoppers"...) Lupo 08:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "The Golden State" has long been a popular designation for California and was made the official State Nickname in 1968. It is particularly appropriate since California's modern development can be traced back to the discovery of gold in 1848 and fields of golden poppies can be seen each spring throughout the state. --M @ r ē ino 13:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe the real question being asked is, why aren't they the Oakland Warriors? I would guess that's a marketing thing -- a lot of the country probably has only a vague idea where Oakland is, or their associations with Oakland are too negative (violence or no there there).
 * Anaheim gets a similar lack of respect (doesn't have quite the same negatives, but not too many positives) which is presumably why the Angels used to be the California Angels and are now the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.
 * I have to say the "The City" jerseys the Warriors played in a few times last season made me wonder. Is there a move planned across the Bay? That would explain the bridge on the jersey, too. --Trovatore 17:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not that Oakland has negative connotations. It's just that they want to be considered the team of the entire Bay Area, not just Oakland. It's the same reason we have the Minnesota Twins instead of the Minneapolis Twins, the Florida Panthers instead of the Ft. Lauderdale Panthers and the New York Giants instead of the East Rutherford, NJ, Giants. -- Mwalcoff 23:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I wonder how many of us are old enough to remember the Boston Patriots. &mdash;Tamfang 00:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Those jerseys with the bridge that said "The City" were throwback uniforms from the days when the team was the San Francisco Warriors. They wore those uniforms from 1962 to 1971. — Michael J  02:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Then there's the story of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. The team was founded as the Los Angeles Angels in 1961. A few years later, they became the California Angels in preparation for a move to distant Anaheim. As part of a stadium-financing deal with the city of Anaheim in the mid-90s, they agree to become the Anaheim Angels. But that didn't have much ring to it from a marketing perspective, so they changed their name to the "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" a couple of years ago. The "of Anaheim" part, a court agreed, meets the team's obligation to include "Anaheim" in their name, even though most people leave out the "of Anaheim" part. -- Mwalcoff 00:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

A folklore question
I'm looking for an article about a group of people in islamic or jewish folklore(it might be somewhere else). The world supposed to end if one of them dies(I think). There are seven of them or possibly three. I don't know anything more so I can't find the article. If you could help I'd appreciate it 134.250.60.235 04:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This might be a (slightly garbled) version of the Tzadikim. Have you been reading Sam Bourne? Algebraist 12:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The Wikilink for that is Tzadikim Nistarim. SteveBaker 14:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's funny, Tzadikkim worked, and that's misspelt... (I've made a new redirect) Algebraist 19:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

3-prong plugs vs. 2-prong plugs
Is there any rule that governs when the grounding pin is included in an electrical device? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shindo9Hikaru (talk • contribs) 06:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Appliance classes? --antilivedT 07:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Also depends a lot which country you are in. Also, at least in the UK, the earth pin is often not electrically connected to anything; it is just there to open the socket shutters.--Shantavira|feed me 10:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense!! The earth pin is connected to the safety ground line. Without it the socket would be very dangerous in certain circumstances. Some appliances do not need external grounding, but the same three pin plug is used for convenience.90.14.21.146 14:31, 7 September 2007 (UTC)DT


 * I think Shantavira means that the earth pin sometimes isn't connected to anything inside the appliance - obviously it's connected to something in the house wiring.


 * Anyway - the main guideline for requiring an earth is when the appliance has exposed metal parts. There may be other specific rules in some countries - but this is the main reason.  The idea being that should one of the live wires come loose inside the appliance, it could touch the exposed metal part and potentially electrocute someone.  So these parts are grounded ('earthed' if you are British) and should a live wire short against the outside, a fuse will blow or a circuit breaker will trip before any harm can be done.  In the case of low power devices with all plastic exteriors, this is not a risk and the ground wire is often not connected to anything.  I have seen some devices with metal exterior parts an no ground wire - but these always seem to have the electrical parts of the device shielded inside a totally enclosing plastic box inside - or they drop the voltage down from mains voltage to 12 volts or less (which is pretty harmless).  In the US (at least) it is obvious when a device has not ground wire because you have a two pin plug instead of one with three pins.  In the UK (where we have 240 volt mains electricity and electrocution is a much more serious risk), the electrical outlets have little plastic 'shutters' that close over the holes of the two live wires in the socket - those shutters are moved out of the way by the mechanical act of plugging in the grounding/earthing pin of the plug (which is longer than the other two pins for this reason).  Hence all UK appliances have to have this gigantic plug with a third pin (which is sometimes made of plastic on devices that are not grounded). SteveBaker 14:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Funny, in Australia we use 240v and have gated sockets, but double insulated devices do not have an earth pin - you just have to shove them in hard! IRT the original poster, only "double insulated" or class II devices may be unearthed. Double insulated generally means that all electrical components must be insulated from the inside of the casing, and that the casing itself must be made of a non-conductive material and must not allow a standard test finger to touch components inside. FiggyBee 01:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

It may seem obvious that the third pin is always connected, but, as above, it is only connected when there is need. Otherwise it simply acts to open the protective shutter. Incidentally there are still plenty of older 3-pin sockets in place in the UK that do not have the shutter. Naturally the protected shutter is required on all new installations. To hopefully complete this topic some UK sockets are individually switched, others are simply outlets.86.209.156.111 14:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)DT


 * Just saw the above. I have several small appliances (mostly PSUs) in which the earth pin is made of plastic, ergo it is not electrically connected to anything. It is only there to open the shutters, as I said.--Shantavira|feed me 12:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Counting bullets
Approximately how many rounds of .22 Long Rifle ammunition are there in the United States? --67.185.172.158 06:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I would think that is such a common calibre and there are so many manufacturers that the question is impossible to answer. I mean nobody keeps count of that sort of thing, but we're talking billions.--Shantavira|feed me 09:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been able to find two sources that reference the number of rimfire rounds produced in the U.S., but that includes rounds other than the .22 Long Rifle. One estimate of annual U.S. rimfire round production is 2.5 billion, and a more official looking document  says there are 2 billion.  That's a lot of shooting.  152.16.188.107 04:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Fascinating, I knew we had a lot of guns, but this puts it in perspective. If you look at the number of rounds used to inflict harm on innocent people, vs. the above number, the percent of used to kill people is miniscule(1000's at the worst against billions), although the harm caused is incalculable. If one were to create an index based on # rounds used to kill people(non-military)/#rounds manufactured(available or sold), would that be an index we could use to compare the level of incivility? by city, by township. Just musing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.142.209.247 (talk) 13:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Civil War: 1,000 rounds fired per person hit
 * WWII: 17,000 rounds fired per person hit
 * Vietnam: 55,000 rounds fired per person hit
 * QED. SteveBaker 15:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * SteveBaker makes a good point, but must balance against #rd fired/soldier deployed, which went up by about 75:1, & fact dispersal (number of m² covered/man) between U.S. Civil War & Vietnam went up 160:1 (Dupuy, Numbers, Predictions, & War, Pp26 & 29). Trekphiler 03:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Tangerines and Magazines
There was a song in the mid 90's i think and the lyrics were about a boy that dies his hair and instead of using hair dye he uses tangerines, there is a girl that blows her nose and uses magazines. Can you tell me who sang this and what it was called. Furthermore, does anyone know where I can buy cd's online, useing a maesto card rather than a credit(master/visa/diners) by Mandoza, I am looking for the song 50/50 and Afterlifesatisfaction by The Springbok Nude Girls. Thanks people.:-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.144.161.223 (talk) 12:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * She don't use jelly by the Flaming Lips is the song you want. Algebraist 12:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See also the Ben Folds Five cover of this song -- we have no way of knowing which version you heard, so I thought I'd offer the "most popular" cover. Jfarber 12:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, this song is the best song in the world. Capuchin 12:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ^ citation needed -- LarryMac | Talk  13:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course I would not advocate doing anything of dubious legality, but I hear some people use bittorrents for this purpose, and avoid using any cards at all. SaundersW 16:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Guidelines for hailing a chief
Are there official guidelines for which public ceremonies the President of the USA does not get accompanied by that ridiculous blast of bombastic music? I can imagine it being uncomfortable at state funerals, for example. He must be fed up with it - it's only a 50 year old tradition, why doesn't he just ditch it? Is anyone aware of any surveys of how American voters feel about it? --Dweller 13:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Given the current "Chief", perhaps the theme from the Bozo the Clown show would be a more-appropriate substitution? Heck, even Bozo can probably tell APEC from OPEC, unlike our present Fearless Leader.


 * Atlant 14:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And hopefully Bozo can tell the difference between Shiites and Sunnis, which the person who is alleged to have stolen the 2000 Presidential election is alleged to not be able to do. Corvus cornix 16:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not at all hopeful. Yesterday, in Sydney at the APEC Conference, he referred to it as OPEC, and to his Australian hosts as "Austrians". .  --  JackofOz 01:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Apparently, "Hail to the Chief" may be performed at funerals, if the funeral is for a president, as this source indicates. I doubt that there are official guidelines specifying when the tune should not be played.  Probably the president's staff decide when they want an atmosphere of pomp (which you may perceive as ridiculous bombast), and when they don't.  I think that the social effect of the tune is to evoke reverence and to confer respect on the appearance of the president.  If most Americans felt that the music was bombastic and ridiculous, presidents' staff would quickly cease to have it played.  That they don't suggests that most Americans don't find it bombastic and ridiculous.  (Note that I have said nothing about my personal perceptions, which are in line with the posts above.) Marco polo 16:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh. In addition to Hail to the Chief, there's also Ruffles and Flourishes to contend with.  Corvus cornix 16:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've always found US presidents' use of the Monty Python theme tune both amusing and strangely apt. DuncanHill 21:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

There was a controversy about 15 years ago when the first President Bush visited a junior high school. The president's handlers first said the school band could not play "Hail to the Chief," since a group of 11-13-year-olds were not considered good enough musicians to honor the president. That decision was overturned after some negative publicity. -- Mwalcoff 23:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Our articles on "Hail" and the 2 presidents concerned make no mention of this, but the song was banned outright by Jimmy Carter (see and ), and its use was limited by George W Bush. . --  JackofOz 05:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for responses - particularly interested in the Carter and Bush (snr) information, which implies Bush jnr (or his team) like it. --Dweller 08:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Saipan MP
What does the MP in Saipan MP stand for ? Tom Motherway —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.110.14 (talk) 13:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't (yet) find any references to Saipan MP. What's the context? --Dweller 14:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Google --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks --Dweller 14:35, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * According to Northern Mariana Islands, the Internet suffix for Northern Mariana Islands is .mp. I'm assuming that in some way, MP is an abbreviation for Northern Mariana Islands. --14:35, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Marianas Province, apparently. --Sean 15:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The US Postal Service uses 'MP' as the State/US-Abbreviation for the islands. These abbreviations are always two letters - I guess all of the other relevent M's were taken (eg MI) - hence Marianas Province (MP). SteveBaker 15:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * MA, MI, MN, and MS were respectively already taken by Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, and Mississippi, but MR is still available. Presumably MP just copied the traditional abbreviation M.P.; at least, Wikipedia says here that that was the traditional abbreviation, but it doesn't say why.  Sean has already cited a web page that says P is for Province, but I don't find anything stating that the Marianas were called a province. I  did find a web site claiming that the P was for Pacific, and certainly the Northern Marianas were part of the Trust Territory of the Pacific, so maybe that is correct.  --Anonymous, 23:20 UTC, September 7, 2007.

Early games and sports in Kongo
In your entry for the Kingdom of Kongo, there is a section about early games and sports in the Kongo.One game that is mention is called "inclaca" but it doesn't list the source for the game..I wanted to know if u can locate the source for that game..The link is Kingdom_of_Kongo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.205.78.126 (talk) 17:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This seems unlikely to be true - there is just one Google hit for 'nclaca' - and that's to our article. 'inclaca' (with an 'i') gets lots of foreign language hits - but none in English.


 * That edit was made to the article by an anonymous editor who has never edited any other article before or since. The only changes to what he wrote were the addition of the W. Holman Bentley book reference and the addition of a 'Who?' tag.  Google books cannot find any words like 'nclaca' that I could find - so I'm pretty sure the Bentley book (which claims to actually discuss games played in Kongo) doesn't mention it.  On that basis, I have deleted that part of the article. SteveBaker 18:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I located the sources for the game "nclaca"..it is "Leisure and Society in Colonial Brazzaville by Phyllis Martin..The game is on page 100...Other games on pages 102 (hockey game) and pg 103 (football game)

Sources for W.Holman Bentley's games are "Pioneering on the Congo, vol II..The pages for the games are pgs 289-93 wrestling,pg 293 spinning the teetotum, and pg 396 mbadi (hockey), mbele,and antelope game.

Difficult yoga poses
What yoga pose(s) is/are considered to be the most difficult? A link to a picture would be a plus.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 17:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A Google search gives this as the first result for "advanced yoga poses" Dismas |(talk) 17:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There are lots of different yoga traditions, but the full lotus position is impossible for most adults unless they are pretty flexible. The link marked "crossing the legs" has an illustration. (This article could do with a decent image.)--Shantavira|feed me 17:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm only an infrequent and mediocre yoga practitioner, but I can do a majority of the so-called "advanced" yoga poses at the above about.com link. There are definitely others that are too difficult for me, but here's a article with a different counterintuitive answer.  jef fj on  17:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

USAF Air Battle Manager Vision standards?
What are the vision standards for an Air Battle Manager in the USAF? Also what exactly does an ABM do? --Sade22 17:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * An ABM has to be physically qualified for aircrew duty. That means an uncorrected visual acuity of 20/200, correctable to 20/20, and perfect colour vision. As far as what they do, we have an article on Air Battle Manager. FiggyBee 02:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Content Question
I have a question that is not necessarily related to Wikipedia, but that I need assistance on if you would be willing to help. On wikipedia and a few other sites, I have seen images that I am uncertain of whether or not they are pornographic or age-restricted. One is the first image on the wet t-shirt contest at wikipedia. How do you know if a an image is considered age-restricted or pornographic in the US.

Thanks, Roger —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.76.128.71 (talk) 18:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Pornography in the United States and the links therein, especially, the Miller test, might help. Rockpock  e  t  19:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As might Legal status of Internet pornography.  Rockpock  e  t  19:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Tobacco Adversiment in Formula One
which are the last grand prix where tobacco adversiment are still allowed? --201.9.47.152 21:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know but Wikipedia has a section about tobacco advertising in Formula One. A.Z. 22:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * China. France, too, I think. Trekphiler 02:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

DRAGONBALL GT REMASTERED
Will FUNimation release a Dragon Ball GT Remastered set like they did/are producing for Dragon Ball Z? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.57.235 (talk) 21:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Spoof Articles
I have noticed a number of dubious articles whilst searching Wikipedia, but can anyone estimate the probable number of spoof articles existing here at present?--88.110.43.175 21:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Likely fairly low. Even real articles often get deleted quickly if they can't be easily verified. --24.147.86.187 23:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How low is low? 100, 1000, 10000?--212.139.83.93 23:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is very difficult to give an estimate, and you would have do fine what a spoof actually is. However, here is an attempt to record previously hoax articles, and Category:Suspected hoax articles point you towards the known suspects at any one time. Based on this its likely that there are not many, probably less than 100, elaborate spoof articles (such as Bishonen's European toilet paper holder) but probably hundreds if not thousands of valid articles but that contain some hoax/spoof information. Rockpock  e  t  00:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I estimate many thousands of total spoofs, but not obvious, funny or elaborate ones, are in Wikipedia at any given time. As an example, consider all the totally unreferenced articles about tiny villages in Europe, Africa or Asia which per their articles no longer exist. In an AFD people will object to deletion on the ground that "all inhabited places are notable" and ignore WP:V which requires 'some' verifiable and reliable source that it once existed, besides the assertion of the person who wrote the article. There have been total hoax articles about individuals, but they lack the claim of inherent notability of villages and get deleted more quickly. I have seen (deleted) hoax articles about U.S. villages and roads, which are more likely to be proved to be hoaxes because of good maps and census records. The ones which got deleted were because the article creator did not add any pretense of reliable sources. Foreign villages (or anything else) with claimed references to actual (rare) books or newspapers (which don't really reference the village, person, etc) are very hard to get deleted, especially if they are in some language which few editors read fluently. Edison 01:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I took spoof to mean a purposeful parody, in that the purpose is to mock or poke fun, rather than simply create non notable articles for vanity or vandalism purposes. Some obscure village isn't much of a spoof, since no-one will ever read it. If we are taking a wider interpretation, then I agree with the newly be-tooled Edison (congrats, by the way) that we would be looking at thousands. Rockpock  e  t  01:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Staring at the new buttons: what happens if I press this one?? D'oh!  A good article related to this question is Fictitious entry.      Edison 01:17, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice article, though it sounds a bit like a description of the contents of teenage boys' discussions. Rockpock  e  t  01:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

SteveBaker Suggests 'Random article' by WikipediA
[Random article]; my question is, how is it random? I mean, does each IP address get a different Random? or are all the Randoms in a select order, from the 1 to 2 millionth? Cheers' y'alls. --i am the kwisatz haderach 23:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is a good question Help:Special page and Random do not appear to give any information on the mechanism. You could ask a developer, I'm sure they would know. Rockpock  e  t  23:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If I recall, there was a question about this fairly recently. I can't remember the answer though. It does take some sort of shortcut in order to avoid trying to run a query against the whole database, which is quite slow, but I can't remember what the shortcut is. --24.147.86.187 00:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This thread reveals all. You can see it yourself over here.  --Sean 00:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I also just found this: Technical FAQ Rockpock  e  t  00:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Visual acuity?
Is there a way to compare a TV screen's resolution to maximum human visual acuity? I'm thinking of the proposed video systems for airliners; how much resolution would the screens have to display to show a pic as good as, or better than, human vision? Thanks. Trekphiler 02:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)