Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 April 2

= April 2 =

Welding Wire length
i am a welder/Fabricator by trade I work in a very very large fab shop in S.E Wisconsin. I pesonally go through about 2-3 44lb spools of wire (.0035) along with other types, Hard face 1/16, flux core 1/16 which are in 25lb spools. Question is How many feet of wire on a spool? there is no real reason other than sheer curiousty. Thank you all for the help:_) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.8.38.141 (talk) 00:16, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's take the second one first. Since you say flux core I'm imagining brazing wire.  If it were 1/16" diameter and solid (which it is not), and if it were made of copper instead of brass, we could compute the length pretty easily.


 * According to our copper page, copper has a density of 8.96 grams per cubic centimeter. (Our page on brass doesn't give a density -- because there are so many kinds of brass -- which is why I'm going with copper.)


 * You have a 25 pound spool of wire. There are 453.6 grams in a pound.  So you have 25 × 453.6 = 11340 grams of wire.  Divided by 8.96, that's 1266 cubic centimeters worth of copper.


 * The diameter is 1/16 inch. So the radius is 1/32 inch, which is about 0.08 centimeters.  So the cross-sectional area of the wire is πr² = 3.14 × 0.08 × 0.08 = 0.02.


 * Now, finally, 1266 ÷ 0.02 is 63300 cm, or 633 meters, or 692 yards, or 2077 feet, or about four tenths of a mile.


 * Let's do the other one. You said .0035, but that's ridiculously fine; I'm guessing you meant 0.035, which is a little over 1/32 of an inch.  I'm going to assume that's mild steel wire, with a density (according to our carbon steel page) of 7,861.093 kg/m³ (which is a different unit than we were working with before, but we can handle that).


 * You said 44 pound spools. 44 pounds is about 20 kilograms, divided by 7,861.093 is about 0.0025 cubic meters of steel.  0.035" is about 0.9 mm or 0.0009 meters, divided by two is a radius of 0.0004 meters, doing the πr² thing again gives 3.14 × 0.0004 × 0.0004 = 0.00000062 square meters.  (Maybe I shouldn't have done this in meters!)  0.0025 ÷ 0.00000062 is 4090 meters, or about 4 km, or about 2.5 miles.  But you said 2-3 spools (per month?), so that's between 5 and 7½ miles.


 * Yup, you're using a lot of wire! —Steve Summit (talk) 03:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

history of prices
I would like to know where to look on the internet, to find prices of cars, houses, food, etc., in the 1960's, '70's and 80's in Canada for a slide show I am presenting? Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.93.204 (talk) 01:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, for US and UK it is relatively easy, I have no idea about Canada, though. MeasuringWorth.com, though, is a great site for such things, and tells you how to do it in theory, though you'd need to look up the relevant indicators for Canada. Depending on the indicator, the values can be quite different—the US comparative converter on the site makes that pretty clear. --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 01:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd try Statistics Canada, the government agency that maintains statistics. http://www.statcan.ca/menu-en.htm. -- Flyguy649 talk 03:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Poisonous Golden Chain Tree
In reading about the beautiful GOLDEN CHAIN TREE, I see where it is noted that ALL parts of the tree are poisonous. I wonder if anyone has had any experience with this problem especially as it relates to pets...cats or dogs. Thanks...hal621 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hal621 (talk • contribs) 01:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Try googling Laburnum. I found this info:

(Cytisus alpinus) All parts of this plant are poisonous, but the seeds are especially dangerous. Even chewing laburnum bark or twigs can affect animals. It is also poisonous to cats, and other animals, including humans! It causes nausea and vomiting. So not a good idea to have it in your garden if you have pets!Snorgle (talk) 16:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Moved from Humanities -- alleged water poisoning in Toronto
Toronto's media is reporting that yesterday night, over 40 Tetrabecquerel of radium was accidentally leaked into the environment, half of which entered the water supply. Any suggestions on what to do next? Please, I don't want to get cancer from drinking radioactive water!

I am now warning my Toronto friends: DO NOT DRINK TAP WATER UNTIL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE IT IS SAFE!!!!!! --Bowlhover 04:07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.26.154 (talk) 21:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's false, as a quick check on google news would suggest. You say "Toronto's media". Could you point us at even a single report? --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This would have gone well with Earth Hour. Who needs lights when the water glows in the dark? Clarityfiend (talk) 00:30, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Tetrabecquerel"? How many isograms of that can you drink safely? Adam Bishop (talk) 00:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I hear it goes down well with polonium-flavoured sushi. BrainyBabe (talk) 02:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well what do you think keeps neon tetras glowing?


 * Atlant (talk) 15:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, to my astonishment the Becquerel is a real unit of measurement. Adam Bishop (talk) 09:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What did you think it was?
 * To Bowlhover: It should be "Tera-" by the way. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 10:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, he is right to wait for verification before drinking the tap water. Even if it is a myth, one cannot take any chances. Not drinking from the tap for a day isn't going to kill anyone if it is false. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 12:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's silly. You've got to have some standard of verifiability, or you'll just act like a frightened rabbit. Where did he hear this, anyway? He mentions the "media", but there don't appear to be any news stories on the topic, confirming or denying. The idea that a major water supply could be contaminated with radium and it not making the news anywhere is so unlikely you're better off assuming it's false, and going about your life. (Unless you suspect a conspiracy, in which case waiting a day wouldn't help anyway.)
 * "Better safe than sorry." is a rule of thumb that only works if the threat is credible. Otherwise, there's no chance of "sorry", and a real penalty for "safe". (In this case, the penalty is the cost of using pre-packaged, store-bought fluids for drinking, cooking, and sanitary uses.)
 * In other news, I heard on the media that there's a problem with the internet and surfing the web from the 206.252.*.* ip-range might electrocute you. 72.10.110.107 (talk) 13:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If that was true then everyone on my floor would be dead. Anywho, I said "wait for verification", he got that doubleplusfast. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 18:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're proud of the fact you provided useless advice to your friend? In other news, I just heard the Schaumburg water supply was or may be sometimes in the future contaminated with uranium. I suggest you wait for verification and don't drink or go near water until then. Unfortunately since as I said, it may happen at any time this verification could take a while. (N.B. This is a joke, please don't kill yourself because you're afraid of water for no reason) Nil Einne (talk) 20:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine, you've figured out my real agenda. I'm actually working for the bottled water companies. "Bottled Water - Now with an even more watery taste that goes down smooth and is less filling!". 206.252.74.48 (talk) 12:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Bluntly, the question looked like a troll to me. As the OP made a claim about Toronto media, I thought it reasonable to ask for any evidence of such a story. Even if it is a myth, one cannot take any chances, you say. Sounds like nonsense to me. Look at it rationally: if the water supply of a major city has been contaminated with radioactive substances, do you not think that that would be sufficiently big news to make it to the normal outlets which are polled by google news? Not drinking from the tap for a day is going to make a troll's day. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This was posted on April 1.You may wish to take anything the media tells you then with a grain of salt. Incidentally,reports* state that scientists have now been able to enlarge grains of salt to almost human proportions,enabling you to get all the salt you need from a simple lick of this monolithic structure.
 * Reports were conducted by Dr.A.Prilfolo at the Gottjer Institute Lemon martini (talk) 13:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You know how a frozen lake can be "all one crystal"? The same goes for the salt in salt mines, so human-sized isn't all that impressive and doesn't require curiously named scientists to produce. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I get the 1 April part, but it doesn't really explain why he or she continued with the silly claims after 1 April Nil Einne (talk) 20:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Kindly note that I didn't move it on April 2nd, someone else did that. 99.226.26.154 (talk) 02:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * See . Nothing to be taken with even a bit of seriousness.  --Bowlhover (talk) 02:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

After class X
What should I take after class X?


 * In science there are 3 options - PCMB(BIOLOGY), PCMC(COMPUTER SCIENCE) ,PCME(ELECTRONICS)? which is the best option according to you ?
 * can you tell me what is the benefit of taking these options and also what can we do after taking these options? 59.92.244.65 (talk) 03:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Could you provide a bit more context? Where are you studing, what subject, and what year? &mdash; QuantumEleven 14:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

what is the penalty for....
ok, so I know everyone is going to yell at me for asking for legal advice, but this is asking for a fact about the law, similar to asking what the legal consequences of murder are. What kinds of fines are assessed and about how much are they for if a person runs onto the field during a professional baseball game? There are signs posted saying you will get escorted from the stadium, but thats almost no penalty at all. I just want to know if there are any other charges? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.53.187 (talk) 05:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The maximum penalty through the legal process depends entirely on the local laws or by-laws wherever you happen to be, but for a misdemeanour such as that the authorities probably don't think it's worth the expense of taking you to court. If you do it repeatedly they can just bar you from the premises.--Shantavira|feed me 08:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If it's the same as for football in the UK you would probably be banned from the stadium and maybe all the team's matches. -- Q Chris (talk) 10:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually in Australia you will usually be slapped with a fine (I think the precise amount varies but it's usually over $1000), at least if you are a streaker . This usually happens in NZ as well I believe (well at least it happened in the Lisa Lewis bikini case) although the fine is currently a lot less. The fine will usually be imposed by a court. Nil Einne (talk) 20:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * In Canada, he might be charged with mischief in the Criminal Code. That's what one man was charged with when he got drunk, stripped to his socks, and climbed over the glass at a Calgary Flames game in 2002 only to knock himself out when he slipped and his head hit the ice. (The specific charge was "interfering with public property", but the specific name of the offence may have changed since then.) He pled guilty to public drunkenness and was fined $1,650.00 (to be donated to charity) and given community service. He was also featured as Idiot of the Day on various TV sports programs, as you can well imagine. --NellieBly (talk) 04:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If someone wanted to pursue this legally, I imagine some kind of trespassing charge may apply in many parts of the world. Friday (talk) 15:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Tresspassing in semi-public areas (e.g. sports stadiums, taco bells) is usually only a criminal charge when it is done AFTER the person having been served with a legal "tresspass warning" that puts the defendant on notice that he is not to return. JeanLatore (talk) 20:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

If you are talking about civil trespass, there are several defences to this which limit the amount of damages you have to pay (actual v. nominal damages). JeanLatore (talk) 20:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * But presuming the sport stadium required a ticket for entry, you could probably still be charged with trespassing if you forced your way in somehow without a ticket right? (If you entered a taco bell after it was closed I'm sure you could be) And if you have a ticket, what about if your ticket specified that certain areas such as the playing field were off limit and/or there were signs clearly specifying that the playing field was off limit are you sure you couldn't be charged with trespassing? Ignoring the playing field, it would seem to me if you found a way into the locker room or the broadcasting area and had no authority to be there you could probably still be charged with tresspasing because even though the stadium may be a public place it wouldn't mean everywhere in the stadium is a public place right? This is starting to fall into the no legal advice area so don't answer, I'm just saying I would suspect it's a lot more complicated then you can't be charged with trespassing without a trespass notice because it's a semi-public place (which is one of the reasons for no legal advice). N.B. I'm talking about criminal trespassing and theoretical possibility, not whether it is likely Nil Einne (talk) 20:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you go into a ballpark or a theater or such without paying, you can be charged with theft of services, just as if you walk out of a restaurant without paying.  Corvus cornix  talk  02:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Nosebleed
This could fit in multiple categories, so i defaulted to misc. Anyway, on the show Metalocalypse, Toki Wartooth forces all the blood to his head and gives himself a nosebleed. I just wanna know if this is actually possible, and if it is, how is it done? the juggreserection IstKrieg! 13:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Force all the blood to your head? Impossible.  Increase blood flow to your head?  Entirely possible; fighter pilots do this routinely to prevent g-LOC, with more specifics discussed at G-suit.  The nosebleed thing is trickier -- you'd need enough blood pressure to spontaneously start a bleed, which means you'd have to be on the verge of a nosebleed to start with.  While this can happen, it's more likely to be accidental than intentional. &mdash; Lomn 15:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That sound wierd, disgusting and seriously unhealthy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah i see. O and to respond to the Anon. post, it probably is unhealthy but would look badass. P.S. I after E except after C the juggreserection  IstKrieg! 18:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't it "I before E except after C, except when pronounced 'A' as in 'weigh'"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.252.74.48 (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * and neighbor 161.222.160.8 (talk) 21:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * and sleigh and eight and freight ..  JackofOz (talk) 22:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Take it to I before E except after C. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

While we're on the subject of spelling...
Is your username really meant to be "The Juggre's Erection", or is it "The Jugg Resurection"? This has bugged me for some time. :P FiggyBee (talk) 06:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It stands for The Juggalo Resurection. the juggreserection IstKrieg! 13:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Dog's Actions after a bath
every dog i've ever owned goes crazy after i give them a bath, running around, rubbing against my furnature, rolling on their backs. i've always wondered, what the heck are they doing, and why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.7.240 (talk) 17:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we can ever understand them. Their sense of smell is so good that the world "looks" very, very different to them than it does to us. The smell of the doggy shampoo must be for them like having a 300-watt strobe light shot down a kaleidoscope for us. I think they're trying to do something about the smell. --Milkbreath (talk) 17:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hate to be a [don't know the term, actually], but you can't "own" a dog or any living creature. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 18:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Pedant?--droptone (talk) 18:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess that would work, although I don't really appreciate it. I was looking for a word that means I respect nature and such things. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 19:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking "animal-rights extremist". Ownership is a legal concept, and I don't think it constitutes legal advice to say that I've never heard of a country where people are not allowed to own living creatures.  Now, the question was about dogs' behavior, not how we describe their relationship to their owners.  --Anon, 20:00 UTC, April 2, 2008.


 * The reference desk is not for debating these issues. The guidelines are a good read, and I recommend it to anyone not already familiar with it. 81.93.102.185 (talk) 20:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The dog is most likely trying to get the smell of the shampoo off of themselves. Their natural instinct is to try to smell like something non-offensive to their prey, so lighting up like a lightbulb only in scent is counter to everything that they are wired for.  Dismas |(talk) 22:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it’s more likely that the dog is trying to warm up. They seem to still go crazy even if they’re just wet; no shampoo involved. Consider how much water is retained in their coat. The evaporative cooling must be considerable. --S.dedalus (talk) 05:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I would go with the "getting rid of smell" rather than "warming up". Our dogs like nothing better than to roll in the mud and get dirty again after a bath, even if they have had plenty of time to warm up inside first. I also notice that if I have been out jogging, when I come in the dogs will sniff me enthusiastically and wag their tails. After I have had a shower they are much more restrained. I think that dogs prefer "natural" smells to the artificial scents in shampoo and shower gel. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I attribute that sort of behavior to the fact that after a shower you pretty much smell only of soap, but after a jog you smell like your own sweat, a girl-dog you ran past, a spider-web you ran through, a dead caterpillar you stepped on, some baby birds you ran under, and all sorts of other neighborhood goings-on that your dog is dying to stay abreast of.  I have four of them, and they pretty much attack me with their noses when I get back from running!  --Sean 13:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

viktor e frankl article
hi, in presently reading viktors book "mans search for meaning " I was VERY disturbed at the wiki article on him.

This does not correlate in any way to the horror he faced on a day to day basis as described in his book, and seems to have been "santised" in way I find disturbing. sorry in advance about my ignorance (I enjoy wikipedia)

but.... who do i complain to about this?(at wikipedia) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.85.162 (talk) 21:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You can discuss it on Talk:Viktor Frankl, but you may get little response. Or you can fix the article yourself by clicking the edit button at the top of the article. The article does not read as though sanitised to me, but then I've not read the book you cite. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. Perhaps that and the relative shortness of the article is the cause. Perhaps not. I'd be interested to hear more from you, on this page, about what exactly you think is wrong with it / missing from it. But really, the very best way for it to get fixed is for you to fix it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Haven't read Man's Search for Meaning, Tagishsimon? I thoroughly recommend it.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What, then, do you make of the article? (and thanks for the recommendation) --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I second that Man's Search for Meaning is recommended reading. And you'll finish it in two or three days. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Third that. It's a powerful book, and I think it took me two days to get through it.  Humans can endure just about anything, so long as they perceive their suffering has some meaning.  This book has more of value than any twenty pounds of clutter in the self-help section of a bookstore.  Antandrus  (talk) 02:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't read it for over 15 years, but it made a powerful impression on me. I'd need to re-read it before being able to edit the article.  It's now on my "To Re-Read List".  --  JackofOz (talk) 03:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The key is that he developed this idea in situ, so even having such a project kept him sane in the circumstances. Julia Rossi (talk) 08:09, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Rail Vs Water
i have to compare the shipping distances from pittsburg, pennsivania by rail and by water to major east coast cities (circa: 1840) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.235.84.25 (talk) 21:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we won't do your homework for you (I have my own to do), but if you have a specific question, maybe we can answer it for you. Useight (talk) 23:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Didn't you already ask this once? Dismas |(talk) 00:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

im just looking for a recource —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.235.84.25 (talk) 01:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You will find a wealth of information linked to our article Pennsylvania Railroad, for example the (some of them indirectly) linked articles Main Line of Public Works and United New Jersey Railroad and Canal Company. This map gives a good picture of the extent of long-distance canals during your period.  By reading our articles on various historic railroads and canals, you can get a good idea of their extent.  Some of these articles have maps that, if you compare them to present-day maps and map scales, will allow you to calculate roughly the distance from Pittsburgh to the major east coast cities. Incidentally, it seems to me that in 1840, it was impossible to travel from Pittsburgh to the east coast solely by rail.  Part of the journey would have had to be made by water.  On the other hand, the only way from Pittsburgh to the east coast by water alone would have been down the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers to the Gulf of Mexico, and thence around the Florida Peninsula and up the Atlantic coast by sea.   Marco polo (talk) 02:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)