Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 August 6

= August 6 =

Teller's Erdős number
Teller recently authored an academic paper, so I'm sure he has a finite Erdős–Bacon number now. His Bacon number is clearly two, so what is his Erdős number? Any upper bounds? It's hard to search for someone with no first name. =P —Keenan Pepper 00:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't this be better asked at the Math desk? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it was originally going to be about both parts of the Erdős–Bacon number, but the Bacon part turned out to be easy. Also, it's not a math paper. —Keenan Pepper 02:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This probably should be moved to the Math desk, but anyway—the AMS tool hasn't heard of any of Teller's coauthors except for John Thompson. It knows two John Thompsons, with Erdős numbers of 3 and ∞, but I think they're both false positives. I suspect Teller's Erdős number is still infinite. -- BenRG (talk) 02:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you count refereed conference proceedings, Teller's E-number is just four(!). I resent this, because mine is something like nine.
 * Erdos P., Harary F., Klawe M. (1980) Ann. Discrete Math. 6:117-123.
 * Gauthier, J., Fisher, B.D., Klawe, M. (2003) Peer Presence and Real-Time Assessment: A Symbiotic Relationship. Proceedings of EdMedia 2003, Honolulu, HI.
 * Macknik, S.L., Fisher, B.D., & Bridgeman, B. (1991) Vision Research. 31(12):2057-2064.
 * Macknik, S.L., King, M., Randi, J., Robbins, A., Teller, Thompson, J., Martinez-Conde, S. (2008) Nat. Rev. Neurosci.
 * The weak link is the second one, being part of conference proceedings. If someone could find an alternate route between Maria Margaret Klawe and Brian D. Fisher, that would be dandy.  I would be very surprised if there weren't a way around, but it may take a few steps.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nine is really really high for a finite Erdős number. That might be more of a distinction than four, which is pretty common. (Mine is currently four, if you allow computer-science papers as edges.) But you may not have actually found the shortest path—I'm sure you didn't really search the whole graph up to nine steps; that would be a huge search. --Trovatore (talk) 03:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that's true&mdash;nine is just a likely path that I found. I'm about to publish a paper (hopefully...) that ought to shave it back to no more than seven.  I'm not in the computer science or mathematics fields, so it takes a bit of a meandering path to get into my area.  (And it's a pain in the neck working across indices&mdash;the AMS index doesn't include everything that's in PubMed, and vice versa.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I've never tried that tool. I just found thanks to it that the supervisor for my masters' thesis has an Erdős number of six.  As I published my master's thesis with him being co-credited, I think this means mine is seven!  Yay me :p Neıl    ☄   12:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

How Many Venevision Internationals There Are In Florida
How many Venevisión Internationals are there going to be in Florida? Ericthebrainiac (talk) 00:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * One. Eric, you've been doing better about avoiding nonsensical questions at the Ref Desk; please don't start backsliding. &mdash; Lomn 01:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * and Eric, you're even on the wrong desk! Julia Rossi (talk) 10:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Question moved to the entertainment desk by request from the OP. =) Julia Rossi (talk) 23:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Mandatory auto liability insurance in England
I will be renting a car in England (and driving it into and back out of Scotland). The rental fee includes the mandatory liability insurance required in England. How much liability coverage does the mandatory insurance provide? Does insurance purchased in England also cover liability in Scotland? Is there typically a deductible (with the minimal plan), and if so, what might that be? Thank you! Marco polo (talk) 01:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You would almost certainly be best off asking the rental agency&mdash;they ought to be intimately familiar with the details of their insurance policies (including limits and deductibles). If you're permitted to drive the rental vehicle to Scotland (again, ask about your contract conditions) then the rental company will also be familiar with the insurance requirements there. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the premium will be more if you take the car internationally, as you plan on doing. AndreaTrue77 (talk) 02:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Scotland wouldn't generally be counted as "international" with respect to England. I expect any rental and insurance policy valid in one will be valid in the other, although asking with the rental agency is the only way to be sure. If by "mandatory liability insurance" you mean that level of insurance you are required to have by law, then that will pay any 3rd party damages. If you mean the level of insurance that the rental company requires you to take out, then that's probably covers everything, although there may be an excess - again, you'll have to ask them to be sure. --Tango (talk) 03:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree you should ask the car-hirer - BUT, England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are all one country (United Kingdom) with no international borders for motor insurance purposes. Secondly, you will not be able to hire a car with only Third-Party, Fire and Theft cover; you will need to be Comprehensively covered, and some hirers will allow you to use your own insurance policy if it meets their standards of cover AND if your insurance certificating company will allow it so you should bring that certificate with you, if only as evidence that you are an insurable driver, but normally, they will insist on selling you their own. Thirdly, remember to bring your European or International Driving Licence (a learner's provisional licence will not suffice). Fourth, remember we drive on the left hand side of the road whilst sitting on the right hand side of the car. Fifth, remember that car hirers do not normally lease cars with automatic gearchange; manual floor-mounted stick-shift is standard in the UK. Sixth, we go around roundabouts clockwise giving priority to traffic from the Right Hand Side (unless there are traffic lights giving you priority over them). And it is worth knowing that UNDERTAKING (passing on the left side of a car driving more slowly in the central or outer lane) is always illegal except if the car is stationary whilst waiting at traffic lights or waiting to filter to the Right - even though you will experience being undertaken by some of our more inconsiderate road users. Hope that helps, but try to read a copy of The Highway Code before you come. And enjoy yourself. Oh, don't get ripped off by the larger car-hire firms. I have friends who come to Scotland from the USA, France, Germany and Spain and they all rent insurance-included manual saloons for under £20 a day from a UK wide and local main-dealer such as Arnold Clark (www.arnoldclarkrental.com). Oh, and very importantly, NEVER go through a Red Light, even if there is no apparent danger from doing so - and NEVER cross a pedestrian crossing if someone is apparently clear of your intended path whilst crossing it - both procedures are HIGHLY ILLEGAL.92.22.94.210 (talk) 09:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In case you haven't already seen it, driving in the United Kingdom may be useful (WHAAOE). You may also need to know about the regulations on use of seat belts and infant car seats and that it is illegal to use a hand-held mobile phone while driving in the UK. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks to all of you for the information. From Tango I understand that the mandatory minimum liability insurance in England covers any and all 3rd-party damages, without an upper limit.  (Please correct me if I have misunderstood.)  That is good to know.  In the United States, the mandatory minimum liability insurance in most states covers 3rd-party damages only up to a relatively low number, such as $40,000.  If a driver should cause serious injury—given health-care costs and the lack of health insurance in the US—this level of 3rd-party coverage would be completely insufficient, and an accident could wipe out a person's savings.  So, to protect one's assets in the US, it is advisable to purchase liability insurance well over the mandatory minimum.  But, unless I have misunderstood, it sounds as though the mandatory minimum liability insurance in the UK is such that I don't need to worry about being wiped out financially by an accident.  (Of course, there are more serious risks...)  I asked whether insurance purchased in England would provide coverage in Scotland because I know that the two countries have different legal systems and law codes.  Of course I am aware that they are part of the same nation-state.  The car hire company asked me if I planned to travel outside the UK, not whether I planned to travel outside England, so I guess that the insurance applies throughout the UK.  Thanks also for the pointers on driving in the UK.  I have actually driven in the UK before.  It was a pleasure compared to the driving environment here in the Northeastern US.  By comparison, UK drivers are so much more efficient, responsible, and courteous.  The driving rules are similar to those in the US (apart from using the left side of the road), but with a few added boosts to safety, which I already observe in the US (such as staying off the cell phone while driving).  Marco polo (talk) 14:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that England and Scotland are different countries. They speak English in England and Scottish in Scotland. I saw Braveheart as well. . . seems pretty clear to me. AndreaTrue77 (talk) 18:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Braveheart? - oh dearie me - why did I waste half an hour writing an informed and informative response to this OP only to be underscored by your inaccurate and romanticised and opinionated AND WRONG comment above??? JEEEEZZZ. I think in future I will leave Wiki to the knowitalls who know notatall (like you) and spend my time talking to the animals who don't argue back. By the way, in Braveheart they rode horses - motor cars were not available in the 13th century. Maybe they were in the USA - but certainly not in Scotland.92.18.20.195 (talk) 21:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Pay no attention to AndreaTrue77, it is a now-blocked troll. DuncanHill (talk) 12:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Question in Miami
Is it all right for me to tell my girlfriend to go out to bars and flirt with and pick up other guys (for sex) once in a while? We have very excellent, satisfying sex. Do you think that she might leave me if she fucks other guys when she's out? AndreaTrue77 (talk) 02:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is unlikely to give you this answer. Neither girlfriend nor sex discusses this situation. Bye the way, how do you know she is not already doing so? Or she is actually somebody else's girlfriend and also having sex with you? 203.129.237.147 (talk) 04:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Your best option is to discuss it with her - the two of your are the only people that can really say what the effect on your relationship will be. Obvious advice: If you have multiple sexual partners (as your girlfriend would in this situation), it is vitally important to use protection. The risks increase dramatically once you have more than one partner. --Tango (talk) 05:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.85.21.254 (talk) 09:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please try and assume good faith, and don't type in block capitals. Thank you. --Tango (talk) 10:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the anon is probably correct.  Corvus cornix  talk  18:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it all right? Sure it is; you're (presumably) consenting adults. Is that going to make her leave you? Who knows? It's certainly not a guarantee that she's going to leave you, and on the other hand, if she doesn't get to do that, she might also leave you. Hell, she might leave you because you snore. Some people have open relationships and thrive in them; others have cuckolding fetishes and enjoy them. In general, non-monogamous relationships aren't exactly unheard of; this isn't exactly super freaky activity you're describing here. If it seems like a good idea, you're both secure in your sexuality and have a good basis of trust and communication, and you know how safe sex works, hey, what the hell. But will it ruin or improve your relationship? Who knows? We don't know anything about you two or your circumstances, and really, the Ref Desk deals best with facts anyway. You may want to consider asking someone like Dan Savage. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Assume Good Faith?!? This Question Is Obvious Nonsence And The Person Who Asked It Just Look At Their Edits And You'll See Why There Here. Zain Ebrahim111 Already Told The Checkusers About This User So Just Revert It Please. Quite Frankly It's A Disgusting Question Anyway And Doesn't Enforce Family Values And Relationship Bonds. 212.85.21.254 (talk) 11:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Edit history, you say? Uh-huh. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 12:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * @ 212.85.21.254 - Wikipedia is not censored and we don't accuse people of trolling just becuase we don't like them. Rilak (talk) 13:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thought: it's okay to ask her, to discuss what you'd like, etc. But telling her sounds a bit unpleasantly controlling and, unless that's part of your relationship, might be enough to make her leave you. 79.66.32.107 (talk) 14:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Nah, the problem is is there a good chance that she will find a guy that pleasures her sexually better than me? Or will she care?  AndreaTrue77 (talk) 18:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say don't chance it, she might very well leave you for some hot local guy. If you value your relationship with her, which you obviously do as you are concerned for her leaving you, then don't advise her to sleep with other guys. I guess it does depend on who's gunning for this; you or her? If she really is pressurizing you for permission to sleep with other guys, then saying no might drive her away - then again saying yes is the slippery slide to swingers clubs, drugs, unprotected sex and death. As said about, it's your decision and no online community can decide, condone, or choose for you. Robb29 (talk) 18:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Y'all have been trolled by User:Wiki brah. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 21:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And the editor who shouted was using legit caps in my view -- cos y'all weren't listening. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:04, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Can I say "I told you so?"  Corvus cornix  talk  17:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Windowboxes
moved to Science desk here where botany types hang out. Julia Rossi (talk) 10:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Face changes
What is it called when someones face changes so much and the befre and the after afe not recognisable anymore? Wot I'm chatting bout is Avery Brooks the guy who was Benjamin Sisko. now look at these pics and tell me before:  and after:. now of course he got fatter, grew a beard and shaved his head but to look at these pics you or i migt not think it was same guy. What is this phenomenon called? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.139.248 (talk) 14:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Aging? I mean, they look like the same guy to me, but one's older than the other, and has changed his weight (only a little bit) and his hair. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You pretty much nailed it yourself; "he got fatter, grew a beard and shaved his head". As 98.217.8.46 said above, the technical term for this phenomenon is called "aging". 20I.170.20 (talk) 13:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Sheet Music Online
Why is it so difficult to find free sheet music online - especially for contemporary music ? Is it part of the copyright issue, that artists are losing out on their royalties due to the internet making their wares available for free ? I fail to see how my playing their music on my piano at home is infringing copyright (yes, I know I might rush out and play it at a concert for reward ... fat chance have you heard me lately ? :-) Chances are if I like the music enough to want to play it myself, i probably own the Cd already, and no if I have to pay for it by buying a book of sheet music, I probably just won't bother. --196.207.47.60 (talk) 16:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that it is a copyright issue. The music labels own the rights to the songs, including the sheet music version.  It's pretty stupid for them to enforce it, in my opinion, but they don't strike me as a very thoughtful industry that way.  They also tried to remove all of the videos on youtube demonstrating how to play songs on the guitar.  TastyCakes (talk) 17:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sheet music sales are a significant part of the minuscule income of a composer/songwriter. The music labels don't generally own the sheet music; look at the copyright info on any song and you'll get the idea. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 21:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sheet music doesn't just come into existence by itself. Creating sheet music takes quite a bit of time and work. If it was given away for free there would not be much incentive to make it. Pfly (talk) 22:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For popular music, there are a number of sites around that have guitar tablatures (of varying quality) and chord structures for a large number of bands. Sheet music itself is much harder to find, as you've worked out already. For piano, the guitar tabs are difficult, but the chord structures can be quite useful. Steewi (talk) 02:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Does Homeowner's Insurance Cover In-ground Oil Tanks?
I have an in-ground oil tank and I am trying to sell my house. I have recently had a non-invasive test done on my tank and it showed negative, that is there is no leak detected now. I have heard that an invasive test can put the tank under such pressure that it causes the tank to break. If a potential buyer demands an invasive test be done and the test causes the break, and the worst possible scenario is their insurance doesn't want to pay, and if they win in court, does my homeowners policy cover it or do I have to pay for it to be opened, cleaned out, all contaminated dirt removed to a safe place, the hole refilled with clean dirt, and a new tank installed in my basement? How could I prove that it was the test which caused the breakage? I understand that if it were a slow leak my policy wouldn't cover it. I have read the policy, even the fine print, and I have asked three people who work for the insurance company and they didn't say "yes" or "no". Does anyone actually know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.78.228 (talk) 18:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We cannot give legal advice. If you are worried about this scenario you should ask your lawyer. --Random832 (contribs) 15:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Comparing the quality of Wikipedia to another site
Recently, I came across a site that pays its user to post stuff. I am not revealing the name, since I am not willing to make advertisement for it. The strange thing about it is that although the payment was low even for poor countries, people posted any sort of shit only to receive these - literally- 2 cents for each post. On the other hand, Wikipedia, that treats us like slaves and doesn't pay us anything, has a much better quality. In a material word, wouldn't it be much logical to expect that Wikipedia had a lessen quality?Mr.K. (talk) 18:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to disagree. Wikipedians contribute because they want to. Someone on this mystery site could add lots of poor quality work and expect the same or even a bigger paycheck as someone who does good work. Therefore, the incentive to do good work isn't there. Paragon12321 (talk) 18:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would conclude that Madonna was mistaken, at least as far as Wikipedia is concerned. -- Coneslayer (talk) 18:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait.. We don't get paid for this? I have to rethink my priorities... TastyCakes (talk) 18:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, your PayPal payment is on its way. -- Coneslayer (talk) 19:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with the site, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people have written automated scripts to post articles. If you post one page of random gibberish every five seconds, that's $14.40 per hour (assuming you're talking about US cents). -- BenRG (talk) 20:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This may also be true in the real world, where volunteer work attracts more committed workers than paying minimum wage, at least if the cause is considered worthy. (If you ask for volunteers to clean septic tanks, you might not have much luck.)  Clearly money isn't the only motivation for people to work.  Feeling good about one's self is also important, and volunteering does that much better than being paid a wage that could be considered an insult. StuRat (talk) 15:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Paying people improves quantity, it doesn't necessarily improve quality. A good example is blood doning - places that pay blood donors get worse quality blood because people like homeless drug addicts with infections from sharing needles turn up for a quick buck, whereas they wouldn't bother if they didn't get paid. In order to get quality through paying people you have to pay enough that people that are already being paid to do a similar job choose to work for you instead. Most people contributing to Wikipedia are not professional writers, but still do a brilliant job, so there is no need to offer the kind of money that would attract professionals. --Tango (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Driving an automatic transmission car in the UK?

 * Just a thought related to an earlier question - if I obtain my driving licence in the UK by passing a driving test in an automatic transmission car, I am limited to driving ONLY an automatic transmission car. Thus, if I want or need to drive or hire a manual stick shift car I am not licensed to do so and will be refused by the car-hire agency, quite rightly (though the reverse of that is true in that a person who passed their test in a manual car is allowed and licensed to drive a car with an automatic gearbox). So how does say an American coming here for his/her holiday who has never driven a manual car in his/her life manage to hire a manual car for a part or duration of their holiday, and get away with it? My wife and I often follow USA/Canadian drivers around Scottish roundabouts festooned with traffic lights whilst their drivers struggle with totally unfamiliar 5 forward shift stick gears with their LEFT hands, on the opposite side of the car and the road than they are used to,  whilst looking in their rear-view mirrrors above their LEFT shoulders when they are expecting it to be above their RIGHT shoulder? Hilarious, but how so? 92.18.20.195 (talk) 18:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because under the Geneva convention on road traffic, the UK recognizes foreign driving licenses accompanied by an International Driving Permit, even when these licenses are subject to less rigorous testing than the UK license. Algebraist 18:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And, spelling it out to be clear, USA licenses don't specify automatic or standard. They're good for both, regardless of the type of car the driver learned and tested on. APL (talk) 18:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Those struggling drivers are probably having trouble with stick shift on the left, not with stick shift as such. If they didn't know how to drive stick at all then they never would have made it to the roundabout. I think what makes it difficult is that the gear order is not mirrored. Americans pull inward to shift to first, Brits push outward, and that's harder to relearn than the change of side. -- BenRG (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

If you get a driver's license for only automatic transmissions you cannot drive in Europe, only in England. Furthermore, what kind of vehicle are you driving? Like a big truck or something? AndreaTrue77 (talk) 18:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * As the American who asked the earlier question about insurance in (rather than driving in) the UK, let me assure you that, while I may have the legal right to rent a manual-transmission car in the UK without ever having driven one before, I would not dare to do so. I have reserved an automatic car with the rental agency.  I don't want to endanger myself or anyone else.  (I'd sure like to learn to drive a manual, but it is hard to find anyone who will teach that in the States.)  Marco polo (talk) 19:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

You can teach yourself how to drive a standard transmission. Just get a hold of a car with one, or buy one, and start doing it. It's not hard. AndreaTrue77 (talk) 19:38, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Marco, thanks for your brutally honest response. I too like driving abroad, on the wrong side of the car, the wrong side of the road etc., etc. So what do I do??? I go to a driving school for a couple of hours wherever I happen to vist - I pay about $100 - and walk away a bit better informed than when I arrived. 92.18.20.195 (talk) 22:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Andrea, what do you mean? As I understand it, a visitor is any country can drive an vehicle they're allowed to drive at home. If you have a UK Automatic only license, you can drive an automatic anywhere (some places may also let you drive a manual because they don't care about it, I don't know). --Tango (talk) 17:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

This isn't really relevant to the question but I thought I'd share my story. I got a learners license in Australia and took just a few lessons in an automatic. Then I went to England and sent the learners license away to the DVLA expecting to receive a UK automatic provisional license in return. But they sent me a full UK drivers license, they must not have realized I hadn't passed a test. Then when I returned to Australia I changed it for a full Australian drivers license. Been driving for 15 years on a full license and never had to pass a driving test. 144.137.206.217 (talk) 09:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Canadian driving licence holders who move to the UK can exchange their licences for a UK licence - but only for an automatic licence unless they also provide evidence that they passed their test in a manual car. -- Arwel (talk) 23:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Why?
My four year old daughter has gotten to the stage where she asks "why?" to everything. Which got me onto thinking, is there a witty response you can give to which "Why?" cannot be the reply? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robb29 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

When my daughter was four she also asked a lot of questions, especially "Why". It was only later that I realized that she was driving me crazy on purpose. I always tried my best to answer politely so I raised a spoiled brat who always demands her own way about everything. Tell your daughter to stop it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.78.228 (talk) 06:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "No. Because I said so." Edison (talk) 18:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? DuncanHill (talk) 18:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Answer with another question? TastyCakes (talk) 18:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Poopypantssayswhy... -- Coneslayer (talk) 18:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Does your daughter enjoy having poems read to her? This might help (it is from "The Elephant's Child", one of the Just So Stories by Rudyard Kipling).

I keep six honest serving-men (They taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When And How and Where and Who. I send them over land and sea, I send them east and west; But after they have worked for me, I give them all a rest.

I let them rest from nine till five, For I am busy then, As well as breakfast, lunch, and tea, For they are hungry men. But different folk have different views; I know a person small- She keeps ten million serving-men, Who get no rest at all!

She sends'em abroad on her own affairs, From the second she opens her eyes- One million Hows, two million Wheres, And seven million Whys!

DuncanHill (talk) 18:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, thanks. I'll try that. Might break the endless loop, then again even if I say nothing after a few seconds it's "why?" again... Robb29 (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you read it really well, you'll probably get "again Daddy!" instead of "why". DuncanHill (talk) 19:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I have boldly removed an unpleasant suggestion which had nothing to do with answering the question asked. DuncanHill (talk) 20:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is reference desk. I made a suggestion. The user had the option of taking it or leaving it. --Endless Dan 20:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * For those who are curious about Endless' edit or are upset about its removal here it is: "Easier solution: The belt. --Endless Dan 19:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)" Take it or leave it and brought to you by hydnjo talk 21:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I like responding with "Well, what do you think?" --Masamage ♫ 22:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why? -hydnjo talk 22:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 *  ;-) Fribbler (talk) 22:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Mommy mommy... hydnjo talk 22:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why do you think? :) --Masamage ♫ 22:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Duncan's daughter would probably come out with something like "I think because I am", and then he'd be really worried. One genius in the family is more than enough, thank you very much.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No daughter, but I do have a niece, who is delightful and seems to keep about 20 million serving men :) DuncanHill (talk) 22:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Depending on the context, a "Why not?" may work. (... and is to be recommended. There is some body of work that children do better learning in the context of self discovery. Instead of being spoon-fed knowledge, they generate hypothesies on their own, with only gentle nudges in the right direction from an adult. - I'm not a child-development expert, though, so caveat emptor.) -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 22:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To keep the rabbits out. Why? Because the Emperor Nasi Goreng said so. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

You may like this I wonder whypoem by Richard Feynman. manya (talk) 04:11, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I remember watching Jack Dee in standup and he was talking about his daughter going through the same thing. To show her how annoying it was, he decided to try it out on her. "What are you doing" he asked, "I'm painting" she answered, "Why?" he asked (with a little relish... She turned to him, held up the paintbrush and replied "Because this is not a pencil". Take from the tale what you will! --WORM | MЯOW 10:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd encourage you to answer the "why" questions rather than discourage them, as they are how children learn about the world, and perhaps even more importantly, become interested in learning itself. Any why chain is likely to eventually lead to a question you can't answer, and "I don't know why" usually ends that chain.  Or, if that's followed by "Why don't you know ?", perhaps you could then explain that nobody knows everything.  Many questions may need a very simplified answer for small children.  "Why do kids look like their parents ?" might be answered with "Because kids are made from parts of each parent" instead of a discussion of genetics, for example.  If they really are driving you nuts, it's OK to say "That's enough questions for now, let's keep the rest for later."  You might even schedule "why time" just for such questions.  And, remember that even if it's annoying now, you may some day look back fondly at these times. StuRat (talk) 15:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I like StuRat's answer better, but one I often encountered when I was younger was "Why? to make little boys ask questions." -LambaJan (talk) 18:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * currently perry-manksterina is going thru a phase of asking 'how' when she means 'why', i correct her and then am asked why...Perry-mankster (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol. In that case you can say 'very good.' and then change the subject. -LambaJan (talk) 14:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Question about the Tides
I'm planning to head over to a nearby island on a kayak this weekend, and wanted to test my interpretation of the tide tables.

You may want to open this map to see what I'm talking about: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.42977,-123.259907&spn=0.048409,0.154495&t=h&z=13

I'm heading from the area called "Oak Bay" to the "Chatham" and "Discovery" islands.

If a local tide table says that low tide occurs early in the morning (5 AM), and high tide occurs in the evening (9 PM), would I be right to assume that during the day (in between), the tide would be carrying objects South-to-North, as more water washes into the straight from the much larger Pacific Ocean (you'll have to zoom out to see that)?

Thanks! NByz (talk) 21:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's the correct general understanding, though specific local currents may vary (you're not kayaking in the main channel, for instance). It'd be worth asking a local as to what sort of currents you're going to encounter.  Also, a 16-hour low-to-high tide cycle looks suspicious, as 6 hours is the approximate norm.  You might want to double check that. &mdash; Lomn 21:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh thanks. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this (http://www.dairiki.org/tides/monthly.php/vic) tide table for August 9th... Would those be "absolute extrema" for the days? NByz (talk) 21:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The tides in that area look quite complex, leading to the 16 hour low to high reported by NByz, according to and . --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a bit of a weird place: Big inlets to the north and south.  I guess that suggests that the tides will be pretty weak that day anyway? NByz (talk) 21:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, that chart you posted is quite helpful. Thanks Tagishimon. NByz (talk) 21:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)