Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 February 26

= February 26 =

Crip gang members

 * How many Crips gang members are thier in the country?
 * Howy many Crips gang members are thier in New York Alone?
 * How many Crips gang members are thier in California?
 * How many female gang members are thier in the country?
 * How many girls are incarcerated due to gang affiliated crimes?
 * What is the most common crime gang affiliated girls, commit?
 * What is the largest ethnicity of women gang members?
 * What is the number of gang members that die in shootings?
 * If they survive, what is the percent that end up in jail?

email removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.213.182 (talk) 03:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I collapsed multiple questions posted by the same user into a single question and removed the user's email address. Sifaka  talk  03:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC).


 * If you have multiple questions please ask them in the same section rather than post a new section for each question. You can edit this section by clicking the edit button in the upper right. Sifaka   talk  03:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That is, if you have multiple closely related questions, as here. --Anon, 05:33 UTC, Feb. 25.


 * Crips has an answer to at least the first of your questions. --169.230.94.28 (talk) 21:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Crips is a significkantly more developed article than Bloods. Wikipedia shows its b ias once again. 199.67.16.60 (talk) 15:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Miscellaneous: Nasogastric tubes in the 1930s
I am writing a book. The time period is 1939 in Paris. One of the characters is injured and in a coma. In order to feed them a nasogastric tube is used. What I need to know is what sort of device, whatever, was used to put the food into the tube? Also, what did they use to feed them?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Bob - rob82042  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob82042 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would just like to commend you on an excellent question. :) 81.93.102.185 (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you read our articles Nasogastric intubation and Force feeding? They should answer your questions. A liquid (such as Ensure) is introduced into the tube using a syringe.--Eriastrum (talk) 22:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * However, those articles don't really answer Rob's question about practice in 1939. And, unfortunately, I can't really answer them either, but I know enough to understand Rob's dilemma.  The "feeding tube" was known in the nineteeth century, I believe, although my memory tells me that initially the tube was inserted through the mouth, and only at mealtimes (ie removed between meals).  I have tried to discover when the tubes were first inserted through the nose, but have failed so far to find any date.  Interestingly, the OED dates the word "nasogastric" to 1958 (the quote refers to a "nasogastric tube"), so I would hesitate to use the term in a 1939 context. It's worth reading about Bessie Blount's invention during the war, which makes use of a mouth tube (although it doesn't rule out nasogastric versions).  As to Ensure: I'm certain such patent feeds would not have existed.  Nursing textbooks/references from the middle of last century decribe how to make up feeds in the ward kitchen, for example. I think they were based around milk. Unless someone else here can access more information, my suggestion is that you investigate some local second-hand bookshops: old medical and nursing textbooks seem to proliferate at these places, and are generally cheap since they have little use for the average reader (or modern health professional!) These will have instructions for insertion of tubes (thus you will know what sort) and how to mix a feed. You may not find a 1939 textbook, but even a 60s one will eliminate the modern-day assumptions, and give you a better picture of development.  As to methodology: you don't need a syringe as such: a small funnel works, since the mixture passes in through gravity, not the action of the plunger.  The funnel or syringe outer is inserted into the mouth of the tube.  As long as the funnel is held higher than the stomach, the liquid will pass through.  The feed does not need to be sterile (our food isn't), but it should be warmed slightly, because cold food going directly into the stomach is not pleasant.  Actually, finding an early text book is a good idea; there are other aspects of caring for a coma patient that will have changed in the past 70 years.  Hope the story goes well. Gwinva (talk) 23:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The guy with the long paragraph above me I agree. But you know if you feel like it the patient could be used as an experiment for feeding tubes.Just so you can play with history. But then again that sounds really weird and I have no clue what you are writing your story on.71.142.242.233 (talk) 16:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven

atomic mushroom cap
When you order a Vodka Martini, the bartender asked if you like it with atomic mushroom cap, what does it means? 61.58.60.172 (talk) 14:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)Anna
 * No sensible Google hits I could find for martini+atomic+mushroom+cap, so I suspect it means there's a barman trying to impress you. Why not ask him? --Dweller (talk) 15:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I did a similar google search and came up with several descriptions of "wild mushroom martinis" which contained a variety of whole edible mushrooms in a martini. Perhaps it is a martini with slices of mushrooms in it? Sifaka   talk  15:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I had a request for examples, so I found a passing references to an establishment serving a mushroom martinis here and here. I think I was mistaken above in my description above because the result sounds much more like a soup than anything else. The Orlando sentinel apparently ran a recipe for one involving potatoes here. I found a slightly different recipe for a food rather than a drink involving tequila and mushrooms here. I have heard that wild mushrooms can be "preserved" in some sort of alcoholic mixture to impart the mushroom flavor to the mixture which can then be used to make a mixed drink. You can also stuff the olives of a martini with a bit of mushroom as well. (As a matter of personal taste, these sound like a waste of good wild mushrooms...) Sifaka   talk  16:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Off topic, but here's an interesting bit of science. The common ink cap (Coprinopsis atramentaria) is perfectly fine to eat by itself, but is toxic when consumed with alcohol. "Following ingestion, there is a delay of thirty minutes to two hours before the onset of symptoms, including an increased pulse rate, flushing over the upper half of the body, headache, and rapid breathing. After fifteen to thirty minutes of these symptoms, the victim feels weak and dizzy and typically experiences nausea and vomiting." Thus this mushroom was frequently used to dissuade alcohol consumption back in the day.  Sifaka   talk  16:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) A mushroom cloud is basically never referred to as a "mushroom cap", so I would assume s/he's talking about an actual mushroom cap (the "head" of the mushroom) as a garnish for the drink. The "atomic" probably means that it's got something spicy in it.  "Mushroom cap" is also a slang term for the head of a man's penis, so that fits in with the tradition of some drinks having racy names (e.g., a Sloe Comfortable Screw Up Against the Wall).  You should never be embarrassed to ask a bartender what something is; they're there to help you drink!  --Sean 16:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yuck. They sound disgusting. Each to his own, I suppose. Cheers, Sifaka. --Dweller (talk) 16:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This kind of stuff makes me glad I'm a teetotaler. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My first thought was that he was offering a 'special' sort of mushroom - magic, but I don't drink martinis, nor have I been offered mushrooms by a bartender, so it's complete supposition. Steewi (talk) 00:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry, I should make it clear in the beginning. The confusion come from the book: “This Book Will Save Your Life”, page 51:

“Vodka martini, “ he says. “How would you like itdry, dirty, twist, olives, onions, atomic mushroom cap?”

61.58.60.172 (talk) 02:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)Anna


 * Well, that looks like a joke to me. The other options are standard martini options, the last one looks like a joke. Think about it this way: "How would you like your eggs—scrambled, sunny-side up, poached, omelet, or thrown at your face?" --98.217.18.109 (talk) 03:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll have to agree its for comedic effect; the patron apparently wants a simple drink, and on the next page the bartender asks what kind of vodka he likes and explains:


 * "I've got Ketel One, Grey Goose, Absolut, Stoli, a potato vodka, a new electric vodka, which has energized particles," Dforest (talk) 03:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That sentence irrelevantly reminded me of this one from our Hungary article: "The water of the Hévíz Lake is equally rich in dissolved substances and gases, combining the favourable effects of naturally carbonated medicinal waters and those containing sulphur, calcium, magnesium, hydrogen-carbonate, as well as those with a slightly radioactive content." --Milkbreath (talk) 16:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

What to wear in Nice - Cote d'Azur in mid-March

 * The long range weather forecast says 15 degrees and maybe cloudy during the day which is fine by me, but Wiki says Nice is windy during early Spring. So what should guys and gals wear? Is it shorts and tee-shirts, or long pants and sweaters? And what about eating out in cafes, restaurants and bars etc? Being close to Monaco is it high fashion or maybe go-as-you-please like Barcelona? Just trying to avoid fashion faux-pas. Thanks. 81.145.242.20 (talk) 15:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I personally would wear jeans or some other type of long (but not heavy) pants, a t-shirt, and a windbreaker. I can tell you that where I am it will also be 15 degrees in the ides of March - in Fahrenheit. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 16:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that sound advice - and where I am in Scotland it is minus 5 Celsius - but we're expecting a cold spell !!. 81.145.242.20 (talk) 19:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

In the Midi, just along from Nice, we have a mini heatwave. Blossoms are out, blazing sun, blue skies. You may get some rain in mid-March, so a plastic mac, or fold-up brolly is needed. No heavy clothes though. Jeans and a sweatshirt will be fine. And a light coat for evenings. There are, of course, many easily accessed shops where sweats, etc. can be bought at reasonable prices, so don't overload yourself. You will have a great choice of restaurants. Everything from fast food to high cuisine. The old market in the old town is wonderful. Get in there and you may stay for days. And the restaurants are fabulous. Three course dinner from 15 Euros. Wine from 4 Euros a carafe or 12 Euros a bottle. Have a great time.90.0.7.146 (talk) 14:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)DT

Led Zeppelin DVD
I was wondering here, when does one usually think that this DVD will be made into Blu-Ray, since HD DVD is now out of the question?Jwking (talk) 16:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't hold my breath. It was filmed in the sixties and seventies, so it wasn't filmed in hi-def.  I would say there's little point in putting it out on Blu-Ray.  Dismas |(talk) 22:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The OP is probably referring to the DVD of the reunion concert from last December. If that's the case, I would guess that a BR version will come out around the same time as the regular DVD, which is still officially "pending" as far as I'm aware. The Song Remains the Same, which Dismas is probably thinking of, has already been released on both Blu-Ray and HD DVD, at least according to our article. I don't know what being made in 1976 has to do with releasing a BR disc; since it was filmed on analog celluloid, a higher definition transfer would certainly be possible. Matt Deres (talk) 04:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't thinking of The Song Remains the Same. According to their filmography here, they have two films, TSRTS and Led Zeppelin (DVD).  Since the OP didn't specify which LZ DVD, I thought they meant the one actually titled Led Zeppelin as the title of this section implies.  Dismas |(talk) 05:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No, I was thinking of the DVD called "Led Zeppelin DVD". type that exactthing in the search box if u don't know wut im talking about. i was wondering if that will ever come out on blu-ray?Jwking (talk) 20:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Fibromyalgia
This is not medical advice just a medical question. Is it possible to have fibromyalgia in just one general area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HarmonyRoyer (talk • contribs) 18:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll never find out. Someone will delete this.  Sorry. --Nricardo (talk) 19:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Based on the information in the Diagnosis section of the Fibromyalgia article, the answer would appear to be no. -- LarryMac  | Talk  19:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * While we don't give medical advice, we certainly have all kinds of information on medical topics. Have you read Fibromyalgia?  Specifically, in Fibromyalgia we see "Although fibromyalgia is classified based on the presence of chronic widespread pain, pain may also be localized in areas such as the shoulders, neck, low back, hips, or other areas."  Hope this helps.  Friday (talk) 19:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Part of the problem is that fibromyalgia's definition is not stable. In Fibromyalgia, the American College of Rheumatology's 1990 definition calls for (as one criterion) "A history of widespread pain lasting more than three months—affecting all four quadrants of the body, i.e., both sides, and above and below the waist."  Under that definition, pain affecting only a part of the body would not qualify.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Castiglione
Please can you tell me which Castiglione painted the painting shown   . Kittybrewster  &#9742;  18:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with that painting, but the only two Castigliones in our list that are painters are Giuseppe Castiglione (Jesuit) and Giovanni Benedetto Castiglione. I would put my money on Giovanni, since the painting in question doesn't seem to match Guiseppe's distinctive style. jeﬀjon (talk) 20:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think this is a painting by either one of the Castigliones in wikipedia. One (the 17th century Giuseppe) was a Jesuit chinese court painter and did nothing like the one you show, and the other (Giovanni Benedetto, 17th century) had a similar but somewhat different style. The painting you link to has a signature that looks a great deal like the signature (printed in Benezit--not available on line) of a 19th century Giuseppe Castiglione (born in Naples 1829, died in Paris where he worked in 1908). I could find only one on-line image of this obscure 19th century artist here . Although the dress in your painting is 17th century in style, the composition and treatment seems typical of the 19th century academic style: romantic and idealized. It seems to show a father introducing his daughter to prospective suitors, with the emphasis on her emotions--this kind of sentimental storytelling is typically 19th century. The Academic style of the 19th century centered on Paris and the judged Salon exhibitions held there. Historic themes for paintings was one of the approved subjects. I could of course be wrong, in which case Jeffjon is probably correct.--Eriastrum (talk) 21:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Ecosse bumper stickers
Just why do car bumper stickers with the Scottish flag on in the UK so often come with the word Ecosse? Is there some sort of Franco-Celt pact and anti-English element to it, or some other reason for their popularity? Theediscerning (talk) 21:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have often wondered that myself. I think it is likely a combinded subsequence of many Scots traditional holiday plans, driving down to Dover or Southampton and getting the ferry across to France, and their strong national identity which largely boils down to being "not-English". À la Del Boy, I can imagine many Scots thought they were being culturally cosmopolitan in identifying their county of origin in French and they would want to ensure they are not misidentified, by their Auld Alliance hosts, as English. (Je suis not anglais, pal) Now, I think there is a bit of a kitschy element to it. There could also be some link to Ecurie Ecosse, I suppose, but I can find not documented evidence of this.  Rockpock  e  t  22:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Jacobite rebellion, maybe? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 00:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Did they have bumper stickers in the 18th century? "Mine other cart doth be a post chaise" perhaps. FiggyBee (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As a resident (of English origin) now living (for several decades past and hopefully many more to come) in Scotland, it has to be accepted that some Scots would love to be anywhere except attached to the North of England - hence their love of any football team other than England, and any Government other than that of the UK, despite the fact that historically, Scots MPs have predominated UK Cabinet membership. They look back with love at the Auld Alliance with France, and forget that if Mary Queen of Scots' husband the Dauphin had survived and they had had sons together, then Mary, as Queen of Scots and France, would have ensured her offspring ruled over both countries, and Scotland would not now simply be eating Gigot of lamb for Sunday Lunch, it would be yet another Departement of the Mother Country, La Belle France. They would also be Catholics to a man - or woman, and that would utterly confuse them, as John Knox had taught their ancestors to hate the Papists. So I suspect that their use of Francophile expressions such as gigot (for leg) and Ecosse (for Scotland) are mere and meek signals that "the enemy (the French) of my enemy (the English) is my friend (the French)." But can you imagine going into a Glesca' Chippie on a Saturday Night and asking for "a deep-fried frog and a bottle o' Vin Bru' - china" ??????  81.145.240.35 (talk) 20:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

DNA Testing
Is there any type of testing out there that would tell me what breeds are in my dog? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 22:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Certain organizations claim to offer this service based on this research. I would offer caution, though, as they will not be able to tell you that your dog is X% one breed and Y% another. Instead they will charge you $100 tell you which "genetic cluster" your dogs genes derive from. The chances are, someone familiar with dog breeds would be able to tell you something not dissimilar by simply looking at your pet. In time, as they build up a larger profile database, they will be able to offer more specific analyses.  Rockpock  e  t  22:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) There are some companies that provide this service, primarily for breeders. For example, Canine Heritage or DDC Animal DNA Services. As for the scientific rigor of such a thing, they probably suffer from the same issues as human racial DNA tests—that is, they are very statistical in nature (that is, they only are going to tell you, at best, that your dog shares some percentage of genes with some percentage of dogs in certain "identified" breed populations; that's not quite the same thing as saying "Your dog had a grand-parent of X and a father of Y", which is generally what people want from such things) and depend on the frequency of certain genes in certain populations, and give at best a small glimpse at a small branch of a much larger family tree (Troy Duster's article "Deep Roots and Tangled Branches" is a thought-provoking article critical of the methodology of these sorts of tests). --98.217.18.109 (talk) 22:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Is that all there is?
When Wikipedia is finally complete, will our descendants look at it and say : ''Oh! Is that all there is to everything? If so, whats the point in living?'' ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.241.79 (talk) 22:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * We'll let you know when that happens. DJ Clayworth (talk) 23:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that will ever happen. New articles are made everyday on news, movies, and other media, and I don't think those will ever stop being produced.--Dlo2012 (talk) 23:40, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Is That All There Is?  --169.230.94.28 (talk) 00:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I imagine the AI that destroys us will fill in all of Wikipedia after we are gone, so we needn't worry about that. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 14:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Given enough time, the notability of all articles will fall to zero, or near enough to zero to make their deletion inevitable. So when "complete", Wikipedia will contain nothing. --88.109.195.105 (talk) 19:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How exactly did you figure this out, now? --Ouro (blah blah) 07:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Already, next to nothing is actually "notable" enough to be accepted, and the passage of time can only diminish notability further. Not that Wikipedia is in any way important, or likely to last long enough in any case. --88.110.19.101 (talk) 08:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't follow, apart from the next to nothing phrase - true, only a small part of that which is, had been created, or exists, is notable, but the passage of time rather does make things more notable than not, usually. Earth will remain notable for a good few hundred years minimum, for example. --Ouro (blah blah) 10:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The answer is no. Before that happens, Philip J. Fry will ride in on a Scooty Puff Sr. to destroy the accumulation of knowledge and save the day. So why are we even bothering? Deor (talk) 17:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Interior Decoration with Books
I need to know if there are companies (or independent contractors) who specialize in selecting books for a client's home? (For decoration and also for use) This, I think, would be a personal service for very wealthy clients, who own a mansion and don't have time to search for and buy books. That is, they can afford to hire someone to buy books for their home library and all of the rooms in their house, or houses...maybe worldwide. They would want to go out to one of their houses and find that each room, each coffee table, each nook and cranny already has the best books in many subject areas and is always updated with great new titles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Gier (talk • contribs) 22:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There possibly are such companies, but books are such sacred objects that anyone who has them purely for show and never reads them is ... but break, my heart; for I must hold my tongue . -- JackofOz (talk) 09:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Books do furnish a room. SaundersW (talk) 14:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a relatively new book out on this subject: Decorating with Books by Marie Proeller Hueston, published in 2006. I have looked at a copy in a book store, and it seems to have some pretty good ideas. I don't know if it mentions firms that will do this for you, though--it might.--Eriastrum (talk) 18:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Wheat flour
Two questions about wheat flour:

First, what happens to a person if he or she eats wheat flour that has not been baked or otherwise cooked?

Second, lots of supermarkets often sell "tempura batter mix" which is often more expensive than regular wheat flour. The tempura batter mix looks just like wheat flour. Is there actually any difference when it is fried to make tempura? Or is it just marketing and a false difference, and one should just save money by buying and using wheat flour instead of tempura batter mix for frying?

&mdash;Lowellian (reply) 23:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Try this site it might help you with your question. http://www.nutrition.org.uk/home.asp?siteId=43&sectionId=422&parentSection=322&which=


 * and also a quick scan around suggests Tempura Batter mix includes ingredients like corn-starch, sodium bicarbonate, burnt alum, egg yolk powder etc. so would be different to wheat-flour as of itself. ny156uk (talk) 23:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That website talks about the nutritional content of wheat flour, but people usually eat wheat flour baked or otherwise cooked, and the website doesn't say anything about what happens if wheat flour is eaten uncooked. &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 23:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

1. Regarding uncooked wheat flour, one of the concerns would be the potential of insect infestation, such as the larvae of the wheat weevil. One precaution would be to freeze the wheat flour before using. Dforest (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

2. Commercial tempura batter mixes tend to have wheat flour, egg powder (white or yolk), baking powder and starch. Adding starch will tend to make the product more crispy, the baking powder & egg make it less dense. But a batter of plain flour & water can also be used. The most important thing is to use very cold water for a crispy, light texture. Some people like to use soda water. Also, it is preferable to use a pastry flour, as it is high in starch, rather than a bread flour, which is high in gluten, which would make for a tougher, chewier product. Dforest (talk) 03:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Petz 5
I bought the game Petz 5 under the assumption that it came with both dog and cat breeds- does it only come with dogs? If it comes with both, then how come I only have access to the dog breeds? thanks in advance —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.211.8.100 (talk) 23:14, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The article you linked to suggests that Petz 5 should have catz breeds. I don't have the game so I can't help more but I suggest you either contact the support division of Ubisoft or use a forum where you are more likely to find people with the game, like a Petz forum Nil Einne (talk) 08:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Reading between the lines, particularly in this section, I suspect that you bought the dogz edition of Petz 5. I'm not sure whether you can download catz or if you'd have to buy the catz edition (which I believe would allow you to use catz and dogz in the same game). Sorry. Skittle (talk) 12:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Down!
Just saw on the news that Florida had a massive power failure. The whole state. Testing to see if you're back to normal, what passes for normalcy there. Are all systems online, or still out ? 65.173.105.114 (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I called the emergency only Wikiphone and the butler told me that Jimbo has run to the bank as fast as his chubby little legs will carry him, withdrawn his life savings in quarters and is now feeding them into the electricity meter at a phenomenal rate, all just to keep us online. We are still online for the moment, but his stash is running low and things could cut out at any mom


 * That is the funniest thing I've read here in a long time! The fact that it isn't signed makes it all the better!  Thank you to whoever left that.  Dismas |(talk) 02:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I swear, if BJAODN was still here...  bibliomaniac 1  5  02:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * How exactly does an entire state lose power? This is the 21st century, damn it! 206.252.74.48 (talk) 14:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You've pretty much answered your own question. Electricity networks have been getting larger and more interconnected over time, so that now, it's possible for a single failure to affect a large area. --Carnildo (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah yes. The 21st Century. The Century in which the sole purpose of electricity suppliers is to make money. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Better than the 23rd century,where it was the big time travel suppliers making money out of gullible customers by persuading them time travel was actually a real phenomenon... Lemon martini (talk) 13:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I just find it odd that with all this impressive technology we can't prevent power loss to an entire state. I'm also bitter because a few months ago the power went out for half of Chicagoland for 3 days, and my good friend had her basement flooded and destroyed because of it! Why in God's name do we have our power come via lines on poles?! Why, in this country, so vain and proud of its apparently vast technological advancements, do we use a power transfer system invented in the late 1800s? I am quite proud to be an American, but I admit that we do the dumbest things all the time. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There are lots of scenarios which result in massive power failures. Sometimes the utility has protective relaying equipment which "overreaches" or "trips in sympathy" or fails to block a trip signal. Protective relaying equipment can fail, can be set improperly, or can trip during routine testing when a test switch is inadvertently left closed which should have been open for the test. The design principle usually is that no one component failing should cause such a blackout, nor should certain plausible simultaneous failures of combinations of components. We use poles because overhead lines are way cheaper than buried cables, and have lower life costs. If the power is overhead, it is subject to failure from wind, tree contact, ice, car crashes, animal contact and lightning. Underground cables also fail from lightning, as well as from dig-ins, insulation failure, corrosion, overheating, or splice failures. Restoration time and locating of the failed portion takes far longer when the conductor is underground cable. An overhead line has a far longer useful lifetime than a buried cable line. Edison (talk) 06:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Where is Pechüle?
I'm trying to kill a redlink in an article that references a German location called Pechüle. All my source says is that it's near Luckenwalde. When I search Google Books, I get results related to a German astronomer and a bunch of German-language sources presumably about the location. Can anyone help me figure out where this place is so I can stub it? Thanks! — Dulcem (talk) 23:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Google finds it - search for Pechüle at http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl - it is indeed near Luckenwalde, about 25km east, now part of Bardenitz (?). --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * (ec) Google maps returns exactly one German town with that name, and it's 22 km from Luckenwalde. But it is not exactly a metropolis, so notability may be in doubt. --mglg(talk) 00:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! As uncomfortable as I am using Google Maps as the sole reference, I've gone ahead and stubbed it. I think policy is that towns, villages, and the like are inherently notable. — Dulcem (talk) 01:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How does Treuenbrietzen compare? At the German Wikipedia, Pechüle redirects to Treuenbrietzen. Achtung, Minen :) --Ouro (blah blah) 12:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've expanded and properly referenced this stub. However, apart from the church, it may well be so insignificant that it would better be included in the article on Treuenbrietzen. If not, a similar article on Bardenitz could also be written. (Some info here, also has a 13th-century church, of which we even have an image). Lupo 13:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Treuenbrietzen and the location given in the google search, which resolves to Bardenitz, are about 15 km apart. I suggest a question here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Treuenbrietzen might be in order. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A question about what? Lupo 09:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, the Google maps link given in the article resolves to Pechüle. See both Pechüle and Bardenitz here (left: Bardenitz, right: Pechüle). Often referred to as "Bardenitz-Pechüle". Lupo 10:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)