Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 July 21

= July 21 =

Phil Collins B-Sides and Tracks
I've moved this question to the Entertainment reference desk, where it is more appropriate. --Richardrj talkemail 07:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Where can I move to recieve $$$!?
My life stinks and I'm sick and tired of working. And I have asthma. Is there a country in the world where, if I so choose, will financially support me for life? I hear some European countries come pretty close, but ya gotta be a long term citizen there, I'll bet.--Dr. Carefree (talk) 01:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Come to Great Britain,have at least 2 kids,and stay on Unemployment for the rest of your life here like so many people have already done.The system will pay for everything! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.86.15.15 (talk) 14:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Citizens of Alaska get a payment every year. It's not enough to live on the whole year though. Why not just see a doctor about your asthma and get a job that you like? Dismas |(talk) 01:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, there are countries where, if you're a citizen, you can get all sorts of benefits, thanks to various social security systems. In many cases, if you have a disability that's severe enough, you can get a disability pension. They aren't likely to be too ample, but you can generally get by on that. The problem for you is, of course, that no one's going to be eager to give someone a pension just because he moves in -- the idea is that taxes pay for these services, and you haven't contributed to the taxes at all if you're not a citizen. (This is not to say that every new citizen is expected to pay taxes before getting these benefits, but if you're moving in for the sole purpose of getting them, someone is likely to look into the case pretty closely.) And asthma -- unless your case is a very severe one and really makes working very hard or impossible -- isn't like to qualify you for a pension like this anyway. I'm afraid that there's no one on this planet where you can just show up and choose to be paid for for the rest of your life, and if such a place did exist, it would just collapse under its own impossibility -- it's not like there's a shortage of people who would want to live like that. I don't think the state is likely to just pick up the bill for your living expenses anywhere -- well, y'know, unless you go to jail or end up committed in a mental instution or something, but chances are that it's going to stink a hell of a lot more than your life does right now. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 03:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You think your life stinks now? "Try coming to Great Britain, have at least 2 kids, and stay on Unemployment for the rest of your life...", then your life will really stink.  To all those who think living on benefits in Britain is well paid, think again.  It's a hard life at the bottom of the poverty ladder.  In my experience the benefits amount to considerably less than what the government thinks is a minimum wage.  And if you're not an EU citizen and you come here illegally, you're likely to be locked up in a "detention centre" (ie. prison) with no social security benefits at all, until they decide to shove you on a plane going back home.  Astronaut (talk) 17:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 *  Algebraist 16:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

After contemplating the matter, I started to feel like a real heel considering moving to another country to take advantage of thier system. Why do that when there are plenty of opportunities here? I've paid taxes my whole life, so is there a way I can take advantage of this system? Yes, I'm talking about the good ol' US of A! I saw a commercial a while back for a book that claims the government will pay for just about everything. It was hosted by a guy who looked a little like Emo Philips, so maybe you've seen it. Is this true? Will Uncle Sam give me unlimited cash and services? I've paid my taxes for many years, so I see no moral problem here. It's getting me excited thinking about it!Dr. Carefree (talk) 03:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As a matter of fact, I think there is always some 'free' money moving around. In the EU or USA, it is the state that gives you this money, in other countries NGOs can give you some help. The main point is to use this money for making something out of you life, not just leech off these institutions. Mr.K. (talk) 10:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Paying your taxes isn't a pot in which you can save up to live without working - it's your basic year-by-year contribution to the society you inhabit here and now, and depending on your income it may or may not cover your obligations, with perhaps a sum deducted towards the support of those less fortunate or competent than yourself if you're doing particularly well. (The latter may seem annoying, but it's the price you pay to prevent them robbing and murdering you in order to feed their children if they are left destitute and desperate. It's called "society".)  If you wanted to retire early, you should have got yourself a savings or pension plan with that goal in mind.  By all means live off the system if you can swing it, but it will probably be far more hassle in the long run, not to mention less dignified, than just finding a way to earn enough for your daily needs doing something you like and enjoy.  A life spent on hold is just that.  Ka renjc 22:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country, and all that ;) TastyCakes (talk) 22:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Asthma is a manageable condition, and attacks are preventable with proper attention to a regime best worked out with your GP. Taxes not only support other people on hard times, but they pay for roads, transport, hospitals, state (and in Oz, private school) education, policing, government departments, subsidise the elderly, defence forces, the judicial system, the pollies and any public utility. Time to put your head up and look around at the big picture. Ideally you'll as said above get on your feet and improve your life. Best, Julia Rossi (talk) 04:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Under the Heading "Cane"
My name is Llano Gorman,

The definition of the term "Cane" is a bit out dated .. very out dated .. try to find a bamboo cane now .. most are made from aluminum or wood. .. this is what it states in wikipedia at this time ..

"A cane is a long, straight wooden stick, generally of bamboo, Malacca (rattan) or some similar plant, mainly used as a support, such as a walking stick, or as an instrument of punishment. Depending on the use, it is left in its natural state or improved (e.g., smoothened, varnished)."

I am proposing a total re-do. Can I do this with out getting into trouble?

It now should Read :

A cane is long and generally straight mainly used as a support. There are five general uses of canes: 1)Medical Cane / Daily use cane 2)Blind Cane 3)Recreational Cane 4)Collectible Cane 5)Travel Canes.

1)Medical Cane: Is used for weight bearing, or balance issues. This cane must be measured for the individual. 2)Blind Cane: The white cane is the international symbol for vision loss generally, including low vision. "This helps the community know that these individuals have trouble seeing and in turn the "White Cane" helps those with vision impairment interpret their surroundings. 3)Recreational Cane: Fun Cane, or going out cane. Something that is not necessarily for weight bearing, decorative, the main difference .. does not need to be measured for the individual using it. 4)Collectible canes are canes from all varieties such as: Antique Canes, Sword Canes "Which now since 911, are not legal in most states and provinces through out North America, however they can be collected." Daily use and even recreational canes are collectible. Main difference, there is none because collectible means just that, it is the eye of the beholder that makes the type of cane collectible. 5)Travel Canes: Canes that can be folded. Fold-able canes are generally used for the airplane traveler. "Must not be used as a Daily use Cane or Medical Cane for long periods of time"

A cane has 3 components: Handle, Shaft and Ferrule or (bottom)
 * 1) Handles: Canes have many different types of handles. Such as Derby, Fritz, T-handle, ball, Anatomically Correct, Hook/Crook, shovel and Palm Grip handles. These handles again, are made from many different materials such as, Silver, Gold, Brass, Wood, Ivory, Bone, horn and many different types of Polymer.
 * 2) A straight shaft, which is made from many verities of wood, aluminum, fiberglass, and other materials.
 * 3) The Ferrule or (bottom of the cane)which can be made of different materials, depending on the use of the cane. Medical canes generally use rubber tips. However the collectible, or recreational cane tips are made from, rubber, silver, brass, horn, bone, wood, steel and even gold.

I really do not want to hurt anyone .. Its just really out of date .. Many people did not know there are so many different types .. what are your thoughts? I also have many other pages of information about canes ..

2008 CanesCanada.com has given permission. I am the author .. Please google my name .. LLANO GORMAN I am the owner of Canes Canada as well I am handicapped and know this topic extremely well. I use a cane 24/7 for over 15 years. I am on the Calgary Chamber of Commerce Health Board. My Wikipedia Account name is LLANOGORMAN "NEWBEE" ...

Regards,

Llano Gorman "TheCaneMan (r)" Canes Canada Inc PH Direct 403 217 8091 Toll Free 1 866 217 8091 Visit: www.canescanada.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by LlanoGorman (talk • contribs) 01:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone (as it says in our unofficial mottoes of "The encyclopedia that anyone can edit" and "Be bold!". Two caveats to that, though - firstly, such a large alteration to the article is probably best handled by asking this same question at Talk:Cane rather than here before you make any edit to the article itself - that way it will alert anyone who regularly edits or views that page. Secondly, be very careful (given that you work in the cane industry) not to include anything self-promotional. Also, if you're including information directly from a company's website, make sure you state on Talk:Cane that you have permission to do so, otherwise there is the risk that the edits will be removed as they would look like copyright violations. Grutness...wha?  02:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Having "permission" is not really good enough -- it needs to be licensed under GFDL or a compatible license (or, even better, released into the public domain), or else the copyright holder must (irrevocably?) allow the text to be used by anyone for any purpose. --Trovatore (talk) 01:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree with Grutness, you need to discuss this in the talk page of the article. A quick read through suggests you have completely missed the use of a cane as an instrument of punishment in your proposed wording, something still quite common in parts of the world. It also sounds to me like you are confusing Walking stick and cane. While these words are sometimes used interchangable, it makes more sense to leave the distincion currently present in the article, perhaps with additional sourced wording clarifying the words are used interchagable in some cases Nil Einne (talk) 17:23, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The term walking stick is quite rare in the States. Maybe in Canada too; not sure (I lived there for a year but I don't recall that topic ever coming up). --Trovatore (talk) 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The walking stick and cane articles are both in poor condition including overlapping and repeating material. A number of things that LG mentions are briefly including in the walking stick article but would more properly be in the cane one. Rmhermen (talk) 18:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Media companies - foreign companies own?
Hi

I wanted to know if foreign companies can own any distribution rights/content in China media companies. Previously it was not allowed. Want to know if its allowed now. tried searching it but not able to find it. Kindly assist. Thanks 155.140.255.209 (talk) 08:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's an article that I think answers your question. Fribbler (talk) 16:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. this article is dated 2004 when it was not allowed. i wanted to know the recent rule/regulation. Many thanks for this nonetheless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.140.255.209 (talk) 05:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

shoah
In the film and book shoah concerning the holocaust, what was the name of the boy who rowed a boat down the river every day, and was spared due to his lovely singing voice. he was made to sing for the nazi ss guards. Also, what was the name of the man, who was interviewed, or the men that accompanied him after his liberation from a camp, they went around finding ex camp guards and taking turns at strangleing them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 11:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The singer was simon srebnik the other dude ill have to check the book again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. this article is dated 2004 when it was not allowed. i wanted to know the recent rule/regulation. Many thanks for this nonetheless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.140.255.209 (talk) 03:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What? Julia Rossi (talk) 04:09, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Prostitution as mutual agreement
If a client use a prostitute (sexually) and a prostitute use a client (taking his money), does it makes it fair? One thing would balance the other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.243.23 (talk) 12:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Of course it is fair. If a price is agreed and a service rendered then the contract is complete. Only if one side cheats would it be "unfair'.86.209.155.92 (talk) 12:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC)DT


 * From a legal-standing I understand there's difficulty regarding escorts - people who are paid to be 'company' but where sex is dependent on mutual agreement (not cash paid), and prostitution which is more simply the exchange of cash for sex. As noted above of course that represents a fair-transaction - both parties enter the agreement freely (assuming the prostitute isn't a forced prostitute etc.). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 12:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Some argue that it cannot be fair as the prostitute is forced (economically or otherwise) into the agreement. Please see Prostitution_(criminology) for more information on this view. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That may be an argument why it's not fair that the person has, or feels they have, no choice but to become a prostitute in the first place. But from the perspective of the transaction between the prostitute and the client, who knows nothing of why the person is making their services available, it's fair as long as they honour their part of the contract, i.e. don't abuse the prostitute, and pay them.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Jack in a box
Why is he called Jack? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.138.231 (talk) 14:37, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Longstanding tradition: Jack (playing card), Jack and the Beanstalk, Jack and Jill (song), Jack Be Nimble, Jack sprat, Jack O'Lantern, Jack of all trades, You Don't Know Jack Rmhermen (talk) 14:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Or, as discussed in jack-in-the-box, 13th century English prelate Sir John Schorne. &mdash; Lomn 14:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

new job
One of the above questions prompted me to ask, I am planning on starting a new job part time as a straight male escort. so 1, is it illegal, and if so why, 2, what should i watch out for, 3, any other advice that i should take to heart, and 4 why are there so many questions about prostitution on this page, I see one every two weeks or so. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. What country do you live in?
 * 2. Police, STDs, rapists, pimps, murders, serial killers, the usual. Prostitutes aren't known for their lifespans.
 * 3. Don't be a prostitute.
 * 4. Because these questions are awkward to ask in real life and the internet provides some soothing anonymity.  Plasticup  T / C  15:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Im in the UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 16:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Barring the above comments, there are some things to consider. First, you should look at our article on Prostitution in the United Kingdom that outlines some of the legalities of the sex trade in your country. If it's anything like Canada or the US (the laws and situations I'm familiar with), working as a private escort (out of your home or a specific location) is generally frowned upon by the powers that be, but I don't hear of sting operations all that much taking down escorts (most of the time the police are working on reducing street prostitution as that's more visible and affects neighbourhoods far more openly than the escort side of things.


 * As above, there's a lot to consider when it comes to what to look out for. I recommend searching around the 'net for information posted by working escorts, male and female - it's out there, and they provide advice that those of us who are only passing familiar with the industry can't provide. I'd also suggest not to get your hopes up too much with aiming to serve women clients as a guy - from everything I've seen, that's a very niche market.


 * Basically, though, do your research to see the experiences of others in the same position, and be very careful if you do decide to try the industry. Tony Fox (arf!) 16:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Male prostitutes can unlikely afford to cater strictly to straight clientele. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Everyone here seems to assume you want to be a male prostitute, but you only said you wanted to be an escort. Can you clarify your intent, please ? StuRat (talk) 17:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know the situation in the UK, but I have a friend who is a male escort in the US. He advertised his services discretely online, without mentioning sex specifically.  One day, he made an appointment with someone responding to his ad.  When that person showed up, he was a policeman.  My friend managed to get charges dropped in court, but he had to spend all the money that he had saved from 2–3 years of work on an expensive lawyer.  So, legal troubles could threaten your income from this kind of work, quite apart from all of the other risks.  192.251.134.5 (talk) 19:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But there's the rub - in the UK there is no crime of "prostitution" - the crime is one of "soliciting", ie, advertising your sexual services as an inducement to prospective clients. Don't forget, even in these liberal times, offering a sex act for sale or reward to an "innocent passer-by" was and still is (by the law at any rate) regarded as an outrageous act against public decency. But there is no UK crime of offering a perfectly innocent professional service such as being a male escort, straight or otherwise. And if the client asks for "extra services" then no solicitation has taken place by the escort. 92.1.240.220 (talk) 09:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Principally don't pay any fees to any internet site promising a job as male escort. That is a known scam. Mr.K. (talk) 11:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

bread mould
what would be the effect of ingesting bread mould? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.80.173 (talk) 17:29, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The would depend on the mold (or other type of bread decomposer). Some are very dangerous, like ergot, while others could actually be beneficial, like the one which produces penicillin.  On average, I'd expect most to cause an upset stomache, vomitting, and diarrhea.  Don't try this experiment at home ! StuRat (talk) 17:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I asked my mycologist sister-in-law this very question, and she said don't eat it. It's not even adequate to throw out the moldy parts, since the mold sends out microscopic boarding parties to other parts of the bread.  --Sean 18:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Did she say why though? Exxolon (talk) 19:16, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Our article seems a little unclear, but it appears that up to 10% of the people exposed to penicillin have an allergic reaction to it. I would assume that the penicillin in a loaf of bread is pretty weak and diffuse, but why take the chance? Ultimately, the best reason not to eat it is that you really don't know what the heck it is and molds have the ability to create all kinds of amusingly powerful mycotoxins, such as aflatoxin. Even more benign molds could create opportunistic infection in immunocompromised people. Matt Deres (talk) 20:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As Matt says, you just don't know what it is. Antibiotics have been shockingly powerful for 100 years; there's no reason to think the mold can't use those power for eevil.  I am in fact immunocompromised, so maybe a healthy person would have gotten a different answer, but I'm sure a cost/benefit analysis would come out to pitching the bread.  --Sean 00:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Who would have thought that C. Claiborne Ray uses the Ref Desk to prepare his columns?! -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Queen Victoria
Could anyone please tell me what height Queen Victoria was??

Regards Valerie1955 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valerie1955 (talk • contribs) 18:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * 'Barely five feet', apparently, so probably somewhere between 4'11" and 5'. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 19:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure which country you're from, but it seems a remarkable coincidence that this was posted at about the same time (within minutes, I think) as the UK BBC's The One Show reported that she was 4' 3". Angus Lepper(T, C, D) 19:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That was, 4'3" at age 18. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Being female, she is unlikely to have grown taller after that. 79.66.13.38 (talk) 21:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd interpret "barely five feet" as no lower than 5 feet, but very little if any taller. Four feet 11 wouldn't be called "barely five feet", would it?--  JackofOz (talk) 22:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The rules are different if you're the queen. --Masamage ♫ 22:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But interestingly, a pair of her knickers were to be auctioned last week (provenance included) and they measured 60" around the waist, so maybe the barely 5 feet angle referred to her not-inconsiderable belly size ??? 92.1.240.220 (talk) 09:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I wonder what sort of person would be interested in Queen Victoria's knickers!! Great name for a book, though.  I can see it now - "A saga of royal romance that will resonate through the ages: Queen Victoria's Knickers". --  JackofOz (talk) 11:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Who owns the Royal Unmentionables? The UK government?  I mean, who exactly was doing the selling?  TresÁrboles (talk) 19:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * According to our article, her height is 205 ft from keel to funnel. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

People to People Program re: Eisenhower
My sister died recenty and had told me many times about typing something for Pres. Eisnehower to sign regarding charter of People to People. She worked for USIA in this time span, no one has been able to verify this. The following note was found in her papers after she died Quote" As secretary to two Congressional Liaison Officers, I relieved my superiors of difficult and responsible office details in the execution of their daily responsibilities. I took and transcribed highly confidential dictation. I often worked overtime in the Budget Office, compiling and typing the budget for direct presentation to Congress. Extreme accuracy was required as corrections and adjustments had to be made on short notice for Congress. Also typed letters for signature of the President of the United States of America on the "People-to-People" program." This is something she typed in a resumé on November 23, 1983 I contacted Nation PersonaRecords/Civilian Personnel, they referred me to Stae Dept. they referred me to Eisenhower Library/Archives which is where I started originally, no record there. Nat'l Records & Archives Adm. sent record of her employment with Gov. from 1950 to mid 1976 inclcuding work in France and a Commendation for her work but no one can tell me that she did what I mentioned in quote above. Am at my wits end, 84 years old and I wanted proof of this for my grandchildren before I die. USIA tells me she could have been on loan to White House or temp. duty and they would have no record, you would think there would be a record if she was gone from them temporarily. Was told all records over 25 years oldong but I don't know how to shorten without leaving out important details. I sent death certificate,DOB, Social Security # etc but still no luck —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.75.38.31 (talk) 18:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have a suggestion for you. See if you can find the original transcripts from that show, and look for initials at the bottom (I believe it is customary for both the author's initials and the typist's initials to be included).  While it's technically possible that some other secretary might have shared your sister's initials, I'd call this rather strong circumstantial evidence in your favor. StuRat (talk) 20:16, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Another suggestion, submit your question to the History Detectives TV show on PBS. This is just the type of thing they like to investigate.  And, as a bonus, you and your grandkids might get to appear on TV.  Submit the story here: . StuRat (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * (I added a link to your title to help explain the program to other readers.) StuRat (talk) 20:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

countline?
what is the definition of a countline bar? 99.245.92.47 (talk) 20:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * countline or contline? Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 21:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * countline. "contline" can be easily found on google -- countline is vague, something to do with a type of chocolate, but the definition is very unclear. 99.245.92.47 (talk) 04:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Originally a Countline was a piece of confectionery not sold by weight. There were a set number of pieces in every retailer's pack. Hence the pieces were counted. Individuals bought so many for a price. i.e. 5 pieces for sixpence. Today the term has widened to include small chocolate (and etc.) bars even though they are sold individually.90.9.80.154 (talk) 09:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)DT
 * There are other speculations on this. I haven't found any definative sources.  Some speculate it is counter line bar as in a bar usually found on or near a counter.  Other specilate it is because it is candy that originally was counted.  Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 19:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Weather for the past month
Hi, I've tried for a while but to no avail. Perhaps someone with better googling skills than me would be kind enough to help. I'm looking for the daily temperatures (high/low) of Durban from June 1 2008 to today if possible. All I've managed to find thus far are useless stats and lots of forecasts. Thanks and please don't ask why, it's complicated... Sandman30s (talk) 20:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I use Weather.com for this (when I can stand all their pop-up ads). Here's June: .  And here's July: .  They list the high and low for each day.  They also list precipitation amounts, but they are all zero.  So, unless this is typical for the dry season in South Africa, I'd guess they aren't recording that info.  (Temps are listed in °F, but you can switch to °C by picking "Metric" at the top, left side of each page.)  BTW, weather questions probably belong on the Science Desk.  StuRat (talk) 20:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that today's temps aren't yet recorded, because today isn't over yet. Go back to the July page after midnight in Durban and they will hopefully have added it. StuRat (talk) 21:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Today is never over, yet. Which leads us to a few miscellaneous deductions on the historical veracity of the yesterdays.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I use wunderground.com Here is June in Durban. Pretty much the same as weather.com given by Sturat, but his comment wasn't there when I opened this box :P Plus, you never know; one of the sites might go down when you need info. 79.66.13.38 (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks VERY much! Sandman30s (talk) 21:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)