Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 June 13

= June 13 =

Track and Field championships
Does anyone know where I can watch the NCAA Track and Field championships online? Or is it on TV?76.194.67.13 (talk) 01:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's on College Sports Television apparently. They don't have a live internet feed, though I'm afraid. Fribbler (talk) 16:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Talking/chatting with other university students around the world.
I realise that this might be a broad question, but could anyone of you guys recommend me a way to talk or chat with other university students around the world? I'd like to meet people from other parts of the globe enrolled at any kind of universities, so I can improve my language skills, share resources, analyse opinions and information with them, etc. It could be a website, a forum, a group, an association... I'm certainly open to all possibilities. Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.19.185.185 (talk) 04:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, the major social-networking websites are well populated with university students. e.g. Myspace and Facebook. Fribbler (talk) 10:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * At least for the language skills part, online games with chat might work. I've learned some interesting terminology by playing chess and chatting with my friend in New Zealand on www.pogo.com.  That is, when he's not "eating tea", "washing his hands in the toilet", or "calling his Mum out at housey" (taking his Mom out for her weekly bingo night).  StuRat (talk) 12:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Teatro Colon
At the top of the article, I'm told this theater opens in 2010. By the time I've finished reading, the article has decided I don't get to go to the theater until 2012. TripAdvisor said the theater opens May 2008. When does it open? 69.143.227.107 (talk) 05:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember, TripAdvisor is a reliable source, while Wikipedia can be edited by anyone (including you), and whatever you read should be taken with a grain of salt. When I Googled "Teatro colon closed" the first three sites all agreed that it reopens in May 2008. Since the other dates are unsourced and not backed up, I'd go with May 2008. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 09:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually it appears wikipedia is correct in this instance. When I Googled teatro colon reopen, I found this and other sources (e.g. ) indicating it will reopen in 2010. Evidentally it was planned to reopen in 2008 (the centenary) ) but they missed the date (see the IHT article). I've updated the article accordingly. Nil Einne (talk) 12:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Valley Of Flowers-Hemkund trek
For a 70 year old man, having undergone a spine decompression surgery in may 2007, is it advisable to visit the Valley of Flowers alongwith a tour company, sometime in August 2008?Main concern would be the trek to the the Valley of Flowers and also the trek to the Sikh shrine at Hemkund Sahib, which apparently is quite difficult for an aged individual.The person in question has no other medical history except what's mentioned above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.80.139 (talk) 06:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I had been there once, and I can tell you that it is not a simple trek. Read 'Some things to Remember' section of Hemkund article. - manya (talk) 08:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If a medical history is relevent, then you are likely asking for medical advice. Please do not ask for medical advice here; ask your medical practitioner. Wikipedians who have done the trek may know jow hard it was for them or others, but are constrained from commenting on how a specific medical condition could affect, or be affected by, the trials of the trek. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The Indian National Anthem
I have read a lot about India's flag rules and about the national anthem, "Jana Gana Mana", but I have found nothing about it that i wanted. I read somewhere that it must be 52 seconds long. Can you confirm to me if it is unlawful to sing it for longer or shorter than 52 seconds? thank you, Balaji.s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.60.134 (talk) 11:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * According to our article, Jana Gana Mana, it only lasts 52 seconds. It isn't unlawful to sing it for longer or shorter than 52 seconds, but the song only lasts 52 at the correct speed, though I suppose you could slow it down.--Serviam (talk)  12:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * When we sing it at school, (yes, I'm an Indian, so this is perhaps more authentic) it's usually about 40 seconds, because we are generally in a hurry to get it over with. ^_^ Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 12:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Really, you mean they don't have music for you to sing it to? Nil Einne (talk) 14:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. All of us sing it together, standing under the bright sun in the school-field. I've studied in three different schools so far, and it's the same thing everywhere. Just the song, no accompanying music.What do you do at yours??Aanusha Ghosh (talk) 17:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In many countries school students do not regularly sing national anthems together. In my school in the UK many years ago we used to. We used to sing at school assembly in the school hall and a teacher would play an accompaniment on the piano. It was usually raining outdoors. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In Canada, and maybe the US (not sure), most schools dictate that students stand SILENTLY when the anthem is played. I think there is even a book called Nothing but the Thuth by Avi that pokes fun at this, where a student was admonished for humming to the anthem and the incident snowballed into a national scandal.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.203.201 (talk) 16:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Re Aanusha: Hmm okay. In Malaysia we always had music, well unless the PA system was broken, at least in all the schools I know of. Admitedly this was in a urban location and we were in the assembly area which was usually paved and partially intended for the purpose. Obviously this prevented us singer faster then we should (we sometimes it happened but we would always be regulated somewhat by the music and were liable to get in trouble if we were way too fast). A rural location I suspect would be different. Re: Itsmejudith, yes I believe this is currently the case in Australia and also in NZ ) (well in both places some schools sing, but there is no requirement for government schools as such). Personally I've never understood the opposition to it that I see when people propose it. (I'm not denying too much patriotism is a bad thing or suggesting that it's not a sure-fire way to ensure love.) Nil Einne (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Odd question
This is a very random question, but does anyone know if bare butt is considered pornography or age-restricted in the U.S., or is it just run of the mill "art" now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.76.224.67 (talk) 14:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well you can be sure that buttocks not "private parts in terms of indecent exposure in North Carolina. A bit of a specific example perhaps. But I'd guess that it's not considered pornography. You can wear a thong on the beach and not be arrested or be subject to "age-restricted viewing" (as far as I know). Fribbler (talk) 15:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It depends on the context in which the bare butt is seen. A painting, photograph or statue in an art gallery is art.  A brief appearence in a movie rarely merits more than a PG-13 certificate.  Mooning passers-by from your car is offensive to many.  A butt covered in syrup in the pages of Hustler is pornography.  And the water filled barrel in your yard is a completely innocent use of the word butt.  Astronaut (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, let me be more specific. The picture was a small picture. It was almost entirely taken up by the female's butt. I have no idea what the rest of her looked like. The picture was at a site that is definitely not a pornographic site. The site discusses sports, etc. They do have pictures of other attracive women, but they are clothed. In the picture you see the girl's bum and her panties are down almost all the way (you can't see her anus or vagina). Is this considered pornography or just a racy image? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.76.64.67 (talk) 18:15, 13 June 2008
 * Whether it is pornography or not depends on your community standards. From my liberal, european POV, I think it just sounds a little racy; but I can also see the feminist argument that the particular image might only serve to degrade women or to titillate, especially as it shows only the butt in a provocative way and is in the context of a sports oriented website.  However, even if I think it's just a little racy, I certainly wouldn't show it to a preacher, my mother or anyone under 18.  Astronaut (talk) 20:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

giraffe
Do giraffes make a sound? If so what does it sound like. Royal Orleans 15:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not the noisiest of animals by any stretch. Here's some info. Fribbler (talk) 16:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed that giraffes don't make much noise, but when I saw some in Tanzania (Africa), I heard one of them sort of grunt, maybe because he/she was uncomfortable with how close my vehicle had come. Marco polo (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks ref desk peeps. Royal Orleans 16:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure a giraffe would make a noise if you stretched it-a sort of sluppp noise :) Lemon martini (talk) 18:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Life expectancy of running shoes and flip-flops
What do you think is the average life expectancy of running shoes and flip-flops before they are thrown out by most people? I know it depends on the use, but what do you think it would be on average? From what most people say, I think it would be 1 year for flipflops and 2-3 for running shoes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 17:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Dunno about the actual numbers, but I would have put flipflops and running shoes the other way round to you. Flipflops can last for ages, being worn only for a short time in the summer and not for anything particularly strenuous at that. Running shoes would be used regularly (if someone has gone as far as buying dedicated running shoes, presumably they do it fairly often) and are put under considerable load while they're in use. Worn running shoes can be bad for joints etc, so they'd need to be replaced. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 17:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I suspect it depends a lot on how they are manufactured. I believe that--like most products--shoes are designed these days to wear out very quickly (see planned obsolescence), though I don't have any real authoritative sources to base that on.  Heh.  My dad had a homemade pair of sandals he built from car tires that he wore very often and that literally lasted him decades.  --Prestidigitator (talk) 18:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It also depends on where in the world you are wearing them. The answer from 81.187 presupposes a climate with seasonal differences strong enough that a change in footwear is required. In Puerto Rico, for example, I wore through a pair of flip flops in about 4 months, and I didn't wear them to work. Running shoes (the high-end ones), in a northern climate, do last me a year, but I drive more than I walk. If they get wet in winter because I failed to change to boots, and the wet is full of salt, then the runners may last only months. My "sea shoes" that I used for walking in the water in Australia (old-fashioned, white canvas with rubber soles) came apart in less than 6 weeks. There are too many variables to come up with an average that is anything more than purely arithmetic. ៛ Bielle (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * One place where I worked used to spread sand in the parking lot for traction in winter, and I noticed my shoes wore out far quicker then. StuRat (talk) 23:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This question may be complicated by the fact that many people probably retire shoes before they cease to be functional. The old shoes may go "out of fashion", the person may buy better shoes, or the old ones may just get ugly (salt stains, for example). StuRat (talk) 23:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This is personal experience from a decade ago, but when I started playing tennis in high school, I was wearing Payless tennis shoes, and after going through 2 pairs in 2 months (the treads disappeared from a large portion of the soles), I went ahead and paid like $70 for a pair of Nike's, which lasted me a year with the same amount of activity. So which shoes also have a huge impact, imo. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 01:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Most-inclusive foreign-language Wikipedia
I know that the German wikipedia is a lot less inclusive than the English version. Are there any foreign language Wikipedias that are more inclusive than the English version? Zagalejo^^^ 17:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand your meaning of "inclusiveness", but the English Wikipedia has the most articles, by quite a margin. Here's the complete list, with the number of articles and other stats. Matt Deres (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * By "inclusiveness", I'm referring to the general attitude of the site members towards borderline-notable topics. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I know the English version has the most articles, but I'm wondering if there's another version out there which would be more willing to keep articles on, say, fictional characters, grade schools, minor league athletes, etc. Zagalejo^^^ 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I had a feeling I was missing the point. I don't think there's a reliable way to give a general answer to that, if only because everyone's idea of borderline-notable will be different. Do we really need an article on every postmaster general? We're very close to having one for every PG for the US, UK, and Canada; how important is, say, Allen Bristol Aylesworth compared to Spider-man or Steve Dalkowski? There are people who would say he was the least notable of the three, but I'm sure there are other folks who'd rank either of the other two as last. To satisfy your own curiosity, I suppose you could pick a topic that was at least cross-cultural (like cryptids or species of louse) and see which Wikis have the most articles of that subject.
 * The reason I gave you the first link is that, in a way, the gross number of articles is the only way to get an actual measure of inclusiveness. However you want to define notability, you'd have to agree that the more articles you have, the greater the number will be that are borderline. Matt Deres (talk) 13:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I have noticed that in some cases where English articles have been deleted, they continue to exist in foreign language Wikipedias. I suppose this is due to the fewer numbers of users and administrators. Less law and order, if you will. Also when a featured English article on which a featured foreign language article is based loses its featured status, the foreign language one will remain unchecked. Maybe if you compiled some ratios of users/administrators/articles/pages/edits, you might find what you are looking for. That would be a complicated task though. --Russoc4 (talk) 00:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It could mean less law and order; or it could mean less zealotry. --  JackofOz (talk) 22:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Book/Reading statistics
I was wondering if anyone knew of a webpage which provided a great number of statistics about books and/or reading (and may have included statistics on many other topics). Many of them were not of the normal sort, an example being percentage of people who thought their life warrented a biography. It had quite a large number of statistics and a few Google searches have not returned any promising leads.--droptone (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html ? --Russoc4 (talk) 00:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope. I found that one with the basic Google searches and it isn't what I was looking for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Droptone (talk • contribs) 16:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Try reading The Cartoon Guide to Statistics! It's the best book ever, because it's so funny! It's my third "The Cartoon Guide..." book! My first one was about Chemistry; my second one was about Environment. Soon, I could read The Cartoon Guide to the Universe. 76.228.104.189 (talk) 03:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

autumn blaze maple tree and sugar maple tree problems
Have one 3" of each tree typed above. Autumn blaze is showing light red leaves already in early June and Sugar maple also showing some stress.  Both planted late last fall in back yard. Should I wait to see if they decline further and is it possible to prune now? thanks24.1.236.248 (talk) 19:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)Ŵ
 * Possible to prune? Yes. Would you want to? Not sure. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 22:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * 3" as in 3 inches? What is there to prune? If you mean 3 feet then I would still be hesitant about pruning. You think they are stressed, maybe trying to correct the cause of the stress would be helpful. Richard Avery (talk) 06:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Avery (talk • contribs) 06:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What would you hope to gain by pruning? If the trees are showing signs of stress, surely the last thing they need is more stress - pruning now would reduce the tree's ability to make food and so further reduce its ability to overcome its problems. Matt Deres (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What are the signs of stress you're talking about? Julia Rossi (talk) 08:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)