Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 4

= October 4 =

Secret room
I found a secret room in my mansion yesterday. I found two skeletons sitting opposed a table with a chess board with some pieces on it between. The game was in progress - not finished. I want to know whose move it was next: black or white. Is it possible to tell? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.251.204 (talk) 00:05, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Easy. This sort of thing happens constantly. What's the position of the pieces on the board? Darkspots (talk) 00:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Each king on kings bishop 4 . No other pices —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.251.204 (talk) 00:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't that an illegal position? Whoever moved last just put themselves in check. --Tango (talk) 00:14, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that position can't exist. The skeletons are messing with you. What are they wearing?  Do they seem like clowns? Darkspots (talk) 00:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course the game should have been declared a draw when the last man other than a king was captured. Though I'm not sure it was required to be called a draw — could be that one or the other player had to claim the draw, and if they're both optimistic enough to think they can somehow squeeze out a mate, then perhaps they'd be allowed to play on.
 * (But then the original poster said there were no other pieces, not no other men, so it's open whether there were pawns.) --Trovatore (talk) 00:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible to make an illegal move; the other player then calls them, or the first player themself realises what they've done, and they then take the piece back and make an alternative move. If they both died after the illegal move, but before it had had a chance to be corrected, that could explain it.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A draw is not automatic with only kings on the table, nor can either player claim one. If your opponent refuses to agree a draw, your only option is to play on until the fifty move rule allows you to claim a draw. Or until someone loses on time, which would be the only reason to refuse to agree a draw in this situation. Algebraist 08:40, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually when neither side can checkmate the other it is an automatic draw. Bubba73 (talk), 00:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

But if I may approach the original question seriously for a moment, the answer is that from an arbitrary game position on a chessboard it usually is not possible to know whose move it is. Only in some special cases, like if one player is in check, can you tell. For example, the opening (1) e4 e5 will produce the same position as (1) e3 e5, (2) e4. (Or for us old-fashioned types, that's (1) P-K4 P-K4 versus (1) P-K3 P-K4, (2) P-K4.) In a typical position the history of most of the men that have moved will be ambiguous in the same way, so you can't tell how many half-moves there have been. --Anonymous, 05:01 UTC, October 4, 2008.
 * Tour guides at Glamis Castle tell of such a room, but it is supposed to hold a Lord of the castle and the Devil playing a card game until doomsday, not a chess game. Edison (talk) 05:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this a joke, or a serious question? GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 01:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Car Speaker problem
I am hoping there is someone who knows a little about car audio. My problem is that one of my 6.5 inch Alpine speakers switches from emitting sound, to going silent throughout any song I play. I have replaced the speaker and the problem persists. I have two amps, one for my Kicker sub, and one for my two 6X9 speakers, and my two 6.5 inch Alpine speakers. This driver side speaker is the only speaker that is having problems. What could be causing the speaker to turn on and off, and if it has to do with the music being too loud, why would only this speaker shut off? Thanks for any help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.7.126.152 (talk) 07:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas, I will first inspect every wire to make sure they are all tightly connected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.7.126.152 (talk) 05:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In my experience, intermittant electrical problems in cars are nearly always caused by faulty connections or faulty earthing. The intermittant fault is noticed when any movement disturbs the connection, whether that movement is heat exansion, road vibration or loud music.  Examine the wiring carefully (at the dashboard end and to the amp and speaker), making sure every connection is very tight.  Get new connectors or wiring if necessary.  Astronaut (talk) 18:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you swap the speaker wires at the amp connector? (You might need some special tools to disengage the receiver clips from the plastic plug) If you can do it, swap both the L/R wires (switch both the active and ground wires, (L+/L- with R+/R-), so that the right channel of your stereo goes to the left speakers and vice versa. If the problem changes sides, it's in the stereo. If it stays the same, it's in the wiring or the speakers.
 * Next, you can use some extra leads - from the wires ending at the left speaker, pull them off that speaker and hook them up to the right speaker instead. (You will have extra wires running across the back of your car when you do this) If the problem is now in your right speaker, it's the wiring that's the problem. Same test to check the wiring on the other side, but opposite hands.
 * The essence here is to swap sides to figure out where the problem is: either the amp, the wiring (most likely), the speakers, or the connectors. If you're confident with wiring, cut, splice and repair the wires themselves to do these tests - that way you can eliminate the connectors themselves as the problem.
 * If all this sounds really complex, or you don't know how to use a soldering iron to fix up when you're done testing, or you don't know what electrical tape is: go to a car stereo shop and say "fix it!". Franamax (talk) 01:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Petrol prices falling in UK??
I don't think I was dreaming; nor was I drunk; but I feel sure I heard a newscaster on TV last night foretelling of an imminent sharp fall in petrol prices to 74 pence per litre (it's currently about £1.10). I think this story was in some way connected to the story of the $810 billion bailout Bill passed by the US Senate and House of Reps., but I can't see the connection. Was I dreaming or did this story get told? And if so, how can it be so? 92.23.56.200 (talk) 11:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Google News (news.google.com, or for the UK, news.google.co.uk) is a great place to check for recent news stories. I just searched on "petrol" and "prices", not even using the UK site since the word "petrol" would eliminate North American stories. Apparently the notion that the price might fall to 74p is linked to speculation of a drop over the next few months in the price of crude oil, so not an "imminent sharp fall", although there has just been a smaller sharp drop due to retail price decisions by Asda.  --Anonymous, 12:44 UTC, October 4, 2008.
 * There has been a significant drop in the price of oil already, it just takes time for that drop to filter through to the retail market (interestingly, it doesn't take any time at all for price rises to filter through, odd that...). --Tango (talk) 12:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Equally interesting is that French at-the-pump prices change constantly in line with oil prices. So we now pay 1.30 Euros a litre, whereas two weeks ago it was 1.42. Wonder why UK prices remain static for lengthy periods ?````DT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.216.121.30 (talk) 16:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ever heard of Rip-Off Britain? Petrol overpricing is just the tip of the ice-berg. Ever paid British alcohol prces? Ever paid British Cigarette prices. Ever eaten in a British restaurant? Ever bought a ticket for a British train journey? Ever bought a British car or house? Like I said - Rip-off Britain. And it costs a fortune to heat our homes and wash and dry our clothes. No wonder so many of us retire abroad when the time comes. I shall watch and report on the "dropping" petrol prices over the coming months. 92.23.56.200 (talk) 16:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If this forecast is coming via futures prices, I wouldn't hold my breath. Oil futures have been startlingly inaccurate in recent months.  Plasticup  T / C  18:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's put this in terms of another commodity - let's imagine a world where we all have to buy candles every 3-7 days. Furthermore, all the candle-sellers have big signs at the road showing their price for candles, denominated (at least in Canada $0.001/1.30) in tenths of a percent. Let's further imagine a situation where if the candle-dealer across the street changes their price by one-percent then everyone goes over there to buy their candles, except the few people too lazy to click the turn signal. What duty do I owe my customers? The duty of losing my business because I was wrong 1 part in 100? When candle-dude across the street starts raising prices, why wouldn't I match that pence for pence? And when wholesale candle prices start coming down, why would I change my retail price, as long as my sales are holding up? At the end of the day, I know I won't get rich selling candles, but I'm damn sure gonna feed my family!
 * Now let's confound the picture. The government seems to have it in for candle-burners, just as they do for tobacco-burners and alcohol-burners. They even have a term for it: "discretionary expenditure" and sometimes "luxury tax" and also "externalities" - fancy terms for stuff I could actually choose not to do, things that might hurt other people because I choose to undertake those activities. So there's a whacking big tax on my candle business right from the start. Furthermore, there are only three or four places I can reasonably get my candles, because everytime someone else says they'd like to establish a new candle-making facility (let's call it an "oil refinery"), a bunch of people start wailing and moaning about how no-goddam-way-you'll-make-candles-in-my-backyard.
 * Put that all together. I look at the overall profitability of my candle-selling business. I buy the candles and get them to where you can buy them. Why on earth would I care what you think of my individual pricing decisions? Do you care about me? Are you loyal to the candles I sell, and to my particular candle-shop? Didn't think so. Screw you.
 * (And refining and marketing margins among the gasoline majors are up a touch (3.5%-->4.5% or so) but not rapacious by any means). Franamax (talk) 02:38, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly

92.20.134.220 (talk) 23:34, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

health insurance portability and accountability act
Does HIPAA affect the patient's access to his or her medical records?If so, decribe the effect and the procedure for obtaining access. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dissh9 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Please don't post your homework questions across multiple web sites. Perhaps you could tell us your thoughts on this question, and the volunteers here might be able to offer assistance with specific areas of difficulty. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Virgin Forest
I have read about white pines being over 200 ft tall and oaks 8 ft in diameter. Most of them have been cut down, so is there anyway to grow them back? Guides say that a white pines maximum height today is only 80 ft tall, if that is true how did they get so big? Do trees keep getting a bigger diamter until they die? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 20:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What species of white pine? Eastern White Pine says that currently extant white pines are up to 180 feet tall.   Little Red Riding Hood  talk  01:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Once you cut a tree down, there is no practical way to grow it back to the original height. Yes, some trees will keep increasing in height and expanding in diameter. They eventually all reach a natural limit where they become unstable during storms and get blown over, or become old. Only a very small part of a mature tree trunk is alive, the rest consists of dead cells that contribute to the structure. The dead (and some of the live) parts are vulnerable to attack, mostly by insects, but also by birds and other animals. The final height of any tree is a function of the tree species, soil fertility, soil stability, water availability, wind intensity, root system depth, competing species, predation, fire prevalence, probably another dozen factors I've not mentioned. The best way to get tall trees is not to cut them down. You can see this best in untouched old-growth forest, like the Douglas-firs at Cathedral Grove. Very impressive they are too!
 * This process could be enhanced with careful management. There is a story from Sweden of a project to grow ideal trees for ship masts, and they indeed managed the forest perfectly to produce the ultimate tree - and successfully completed the project well into the steamship age! Franamax (talk) 03:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Our article on coppicing has information about what happens to trees when they are cut as part of woodland management and then allowed to regrow. I don't think coppicing has ever been practised much in the Americas though, unless there is a Native American tradition that is not widely known. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)