Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 6

= October 6 =

Immigration to Canada
What is needed to immigrate to Canada? I may move there. What ID will I need? I'm asking for another person. Powerzilla (talk) 00:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Immigration is a long, complex and expensive process. It's not like you show up at the border with a driver's license and bang, you're in. See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp for more info. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That depends on the length of your stay. If you just want to visit for a few weeks you can travel on a tourist visa or even a visa waiver.  Plasticup  T / C  01:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I should point out that under normal parlance, someone who travels to a country for a few weeks as a tourist isn't by any stretch of the imagination immigrating to Canada. Also you will need a passport to enter Canada which you obviously don't have if you have no ID (although I appreciate this detail wasn't clear at the time) Nil Einne (talk) 18:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Just seen it. How does one get the necessary documentation and still be "legal" in Canada? I've heard about how US soldiers from the Viet Nam War got into Canada because they opposed that war.Powerzilla (talk) 01:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * My client claims that she has no ID due to have been in a cult that has heavy references to the NWO. There are cults like that all over the US. How can she get the required ID then? Powerzilla (talk) 02:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have heard of people like that writing to his/her Senator's office.  Plasticup  T / C  03:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Assuming your client is a U.S. citizen and resident, a practical way of moving forward with establishing ID is to get her birth certificate (good link). Then you need to put together all possible documents establishing her identity (even things like utility bills in her name, lease agreements, anything that's "official" with her name and address) and get either a passport or a non-driver's license in her state of residence (a passport is more to the point, but if it seems easier to get the non-driver's id, do that first, then the passport's a slam-dunk).  An interim step might be to get a social security card, see this link.  Darkspots (talk) 07:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Powerzilla. You refer to your 'client'. Are you charging money to advise someone on immigration to Canada, and then getting that information from Wikipedia? If so then I hope you are making that clear to your client, or you are committing fraud. Here] is the official website on Canadian immigration. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where you live, but in my country you are allowed to do research without being guilty of fraud.  Plasticup  T / C  02:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * In my country, which is Canada, there is a huge problem in which prospective immigrants are preyed upon by unscrupulous people who claim to be able to 'expedite' their immigration process. Sometimes they will claim that the immigrants need their services to be able to immigrate. They do have no special knowledge, and do nothing that cannot be done by the applicant, yet frequently charge huge fees. So basically it's illegal to represent yourself as an 'immigration agent' without appropriately making the client's right clear. And it's not the "doing research" that's the problem, it's the charging money for something the immigrant can do themselves without being honest that that is what they are doing. Powerzilla, if you are legitimately doing research please accept my apologies. If you are charging a prospective immigrant for services they don't need, be warned. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Force of habit. I was a paranormal investigator. No fraud here. Powerzilla (talk) 03:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I might go there myself, concerning some UFO and Bigfoot incidents that have been reported there. Some people, when they hear you are a investigator, they assume you go after deadbeats and women who commit adultery. Like people who hear you are a doctor assuming you are a physician, when your doctorate is something else, like astronomy or literature. Powerzilla (talk) 03:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not charge her anything at all. Told her that I was NOT that kind of investigator, just the kind that hunts UFOs, Bigfoot, not what she had in mind. Powerzilla (talk) 03:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When she mentioned that she was in a cult, I thought she was talking about a "flying saucer cult", not a religious cult like the Tony Alamo cult. Thanks for the assisstance. Some people, go figure. Powerzilla (talk) 03:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

kit homes
What is the largest kit home available by mail? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.155.27.93 (talk) 00:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Try asking these folks. -hydnjo talk 02:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

excuse me sir, but you're sitting in my seat.
Can anyone explain to me why is it that when people sit in the same seat two or more times in a church they expect to be able to have the exact same seat every time upon their return? I'm writing a paper on social norms, and this bizarre, yet commonly accepted 'norm' is one of my topics of interest. Where did this belief originate and why is it such a big deal in our churches today? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.15.211.76 (talk) 01:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The seat becomes saved and it's always been that way. -hydnjo talk 02:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

In a Synagogue, one should sit in the same seat every time (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, chapter 90 paragraph 19). This is learned from the actions of the patriarch Abraham (Talmud, Berachot 6b)Simonschaim (talk) 05:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When my parents and I would go to church when I was growing up we often sat in the same seat. Although, if someone were already there, we didn't raise a fuss and nothing was said about it.  Basically, I never encountered what the OP is theorizing.  Dismas |(talk) 05:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Pretty much as Dismas discribes it in our (Catholic) church. -hydnjo talk 06:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Is such a phenomenon restricted to church? As I recall, people tended to sit in the same seats at school, at uni lectures, even on the bus... I've even met people who try and sit in the same cinema seat each time they go. Is it just that we're all creatures of habit? Gwinva (talk) 06:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * But to refer specifically to churches, it was once a tradition for families to purchase pews, and to always sit in them. Some old churches still have the brass name plates.  Gwinva (talk) 06:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * here's one church's pew plan showing who was renting them. another.  C.S. Lewis always sat in the same pew as well.  Gwinva (talk) 06:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree with that as well. Including how we arranged ourselves in a car and in the restaurant booth. Hadn't thought about those before but the "arrangement" was indeed pervasive, even in casual environments (remember the The Simpsons couch gag) -hydnjo talk 06:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * On training courses that go for more than a day, where people are free to choose their own seats, the default assumption of most people seems to be that they'll stay in the same seat as they had on Day 1, unless it's taken when they walk in in the morning. But there's a minority who have the opposite assumption: they'll take a different seat every day, unless there's no choice, or they particularly want to sit next to a friend or someone they're hoping will become a friend.  It's probably no surprise to most people here that I'm in the latter group.  Because I also like to turn up only a minute or two before scheduled starting time (a hearing problem makes it very difficult for me to converse in a room where everyone is talking; nothing to do with being a misanthrope), there's usually little or no choice as to where to sit on Day 2 (or even Day 1, for that matter), and it usually means I'm sitting where I was on Day 1.  However, whenever I have managed to snaffle a different seat, nobody's ever asked me to kindly move.  They walk in, look terribly surprised for a moment or two when they see "their" seat is occupied, and then make alternative arrangements.  --  JackofOz (talk) 07:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * At one training course I attended, friends were deliberately split up on the first morning because the trainer wanted people to mix with others. So I and a few others moved back together, but we were told to move apart again.  How I loathed that course... --Richardrj talkemail 07:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that's interesting, Richard. I've always had a secret fantasy that if ever I become a trainer (which is increasingly likely since I've recently acquired a training qualification), I'd walk in when my victims have all got their seating sorted out and their notepads and laptops and coffee mugs and name tags and writing implements all nicely arranged on their desks, and after introductions, my first requirement would be for them to pack up their stuff and move to different seats, and not sitting next to either of the people they're currently sitting next to.  If anyone objected, they'd be ejected on the grounds of disrupting the class.  They'd soon find out who's boss. This would be repeated after lunch.  I wouldn't do it from Day 2 onwards (assuming any of them actually came back) because by then I would have achieved the level of respect I demand.  :) :)  But in all seriousness, I would encourage people to not always sit in the same seat, as a metaphor for keeping an open mind and being prepared to approach whatever I'm teaching them from a variety of different perspectives.  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you ever teach such a course please let us know ahead of time so that we can all completely fail to attend. APL (talk) 02:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's OK, APL. I'm only interested in training people who actually want to be there anyway, and who wouldn't be so emotionally limp-wristed as to find my unorthodox methods off-putting.  That may mean I'll have to find a viable group of very special people, but I'm sure the long and arduous search will be worth it.  :)  --  JackofOz (talk) 03:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of us would find that a very anxious experience, and would prefer you to provide several seating plans or some rule to follow, on this hypothetical training course, so that we don't feel we are imposing our presence on the mean "cool kids" who somehow never seem to go away, no matter how high up you travel. 130.88.64.189 (talk) 12:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Making people anxious per se is not what I have in mind, but I do encourage people to get out of their comfort zones, because that's where the real learning takes place. If anyone really needed me to tell them where to sit, I don't think I'd be all that keen on training them anyway.  My interest is in adult learners, and I assume that's who I'm dealing with unless they produce evidence to the contrary.  My encouragement would be just that, nothing mandatory about it.  I'm sure some would sit in a different seat, but others wouldn't.  I'd be worried if absolutely everyone responded to my encouragement (which would suggest a class of robots), or if absolutely nobody did (which would either suggest a class of rebels, or that I was mumbling and didn't realise it).  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Try earning the respect of your classes by being a good teacher. Being a megalomaniac is not going to earn you any respect. --Tango (talk) 00:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * To 68.15.211.76: I hope that we've added some dimension to your paper. -hydnjo talk 07:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Group influence is very strong. When I joined a two-year diploma course we were split into two classes. Each, supposedly, of 15. But somehow we had 16 and the other group had 14. The Tutor arrived one hour into the first day... explained... asked for a volunteer to shift groups. The class growled. Nobody would go. After just an hour and not knowing anybody before, we had formed. So for two years tutors had to cope with a 16 and a 14 class.86.211.111.218 (talk) 15:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)DT
 * I'm a teacher, and I see the same phenomenon among students. I suspect it's a territorial instinct thing. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Jack's fantasy reminds me of when I was a high school student. In each class we were expected to take the same seats every time, to help the teacher keep track of us. Some teachers let us sit where we liked the first time and then just had us repeat that arrangement, but others asked us to sit in alphabetical order by name to make it easier for themselves. One year on the first day the first teacher asked us to sit alphabetically and called the roll as we reseated ourselves. Then the second teacher did the same. When we got to the third teacher's room and his first words to us were something like "Hello. I'm going to seat you alphabetically", everyone got up and moved to the correct seat. The teacher commented to the effect that he was glad to see we knew our alphabet.

question
This question was more a science question, so I moved it over to the Science desk. Check it out there! -- Captain Disdain (talk) 13:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

stock and bond shop
what is a stock and bond shop? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.149.26.59 (talk) 17:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * One meaning for the phrase describes a business that sells (and likely also buys) old certificates for stocks and bonds that no longer have any value aside from that of an interesting, often elaborate, piece of paper. These certificates represent companies -or governments, possibly- now defunct. I have a lot of such certificates from a Mexican Railway scheme of the early 1900s, for example. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

eggplant turning blue: rotten?
The outside of eggplant in leftovers from a meal (= cooked!) has turned blue--almost the color of fish scales. Does that mean the eggplant is rotten, or can that happen from some harmless chemical process depending on the ingredients? The dish has been sitting in our fridge for some days, but I've never seen eggplant turn that color before, and it doesn't stink or anything. :) Any ideas? --Ibn Battuta (talk) 17:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, considering that a whole eggplant costs about US$2.00, its probably not worth the potential explosive diarrhea to find out. I'd just ditch it and get some fresh eggplant.  Or you could invest in about 50 cents worth of seeds, and you'll grow enough eggplants to make your friends start to hate to see you (hey!  Want some free eggplant!)  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  18:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Um, first of all it's not about the raw eggplant, but about a prepared dish (and I'm sort of busy at the moment)... and moreover, I'm just curious. At least I don't think that those guys asking questions about black holes, obscure poets, or building nuclear bombs need them for their survival... :) --Ibn Battuta (talk) 18:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * True, but no matter how tasty it was, I generally avoid eating food that has changed to colors not normally expected. Of course, you could always sacrifice your body for science, do the experiment, and let us know how it turned out... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  19:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If you survive, that is. --  JackofOz (talk) 20:10, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * And, if you don´t, than a brief report from the state of life after death would be of some interest to us regulars in answering relevant queries on this aubergine (ie. turning blue) posthumuous condition. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That could also be called a "novomundane" report. --  JackofOz (talk) 22:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That would also satisfy another pending RefDesk request.  Plasticup  T / C  23:00, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Six sigma black belt
hi. if anyone working with the six sigma project can help me explain the yield calculation and presentation through minitab.i have been struggling with the cohesive implementation of both.Vikram79 (talk) 19:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

day of the week
what day of the week was november 17 2001 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.223.162 (talk) 22:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Our article November 17 says it was a Saturday. Darkspots (talk) 22:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, there's even an article with each day - I was going to suggest www.timeanddate.com - which confirms it and is a great calendar site.Somebody or his brother (talk) 22:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure we would have the articles anyway—people love the this-date-in-history thing—but way back a few weeks ago when date-linking was considered cool, we needed to have those articles to make dates be blue. Darkspots (talk) 12:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, should I get a t-shirt saying I wasn't date-linking before date-linking was uncool? —Tamfang (talk) 06:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I was going to suggest 2001. Useight (talk) 22:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I was going to suggest asking Kim Peek, but that would involve knowing his phone number. --  JackofOz (talk) 02:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's OK - he probably remembers your phone number. SteveBaker (talk) 11:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know how Mac works, but if you're using Windows, you can double click on the time in the lower right hand corner of your screen, and change the month and year to anything within the last x years (I don't know how far back that goes) and you can see the calendar for that month and year.  Little Red Riding Hood  talk  01:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * On (most) Unix based systems (including Macs), the program cal should be installed by default. Open up the command line and type cal 11 2001 to see a calendar of November 2001. Cal goes from the year 1 to 9999. - Akamad (talk) 02:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "cal" is a venerable and much-loved UNIX tool. It's party-trick is: "cal 9 1752". SteveBaker (talk) 11:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * NurseryRhyme: It goes from 1980-2099 on my Windows XP.  bibliomaniac 1  5  03:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Although the UNIX "cal" command goes from 1 to 9999, there are some caveats. First, it assumes that the first day when the Gregorian calendar was used was September 14, 1752, which is only correct for the British Empire.  Second, it assumes that leap years in the Julian calendar were always every 4 years, although it actually took the Romans a bit of time before they got it right, so for example 4 AD was not really a leap year.  Third, it assumes that the year has always begun on January 1, which is wrong even for the British Empire; I'm not sure if there's any place for which it's been continuously true since 1 AD.  And fourth, of course, it's always possible that in the next 8000 years there will be further improvements to the pattern of leap years. --Anonymous, 05:45 UTC, October 7, 2008 AD.


 * GNU cal uses 1752 and some other week number system if the locale is english; 1582 and ISO week number otherwise (by default, can also be specified on the command line). BSD (ncal) has a list of when all countries switched, picked based on the country code in LC_TIME - default to US if it's not found in the list, if the locale is C/POSIX/ASCII/US-ASCII, or if there is no country code. I can't find what it does for week numbers. --Random832 (contribs) 14:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Note on Vista it goes from 1900 to 2099. Also, you can click at the top to 'zoom out' as it were until you get to a range of dates (1990-1999, 2000-2009 etc) to find the date you want easier Nil Einne (talk) 18:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)