Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 September 16

= September 16 =

Coed Naked Sports
What sport was the original "Coed Naked" T-shirt made for? 71.113.3.76 (talk) 07:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I dunno, but your question was made for the entertainment desk. ;) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I went to the wrong college.  Plasticup  T / C  01:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Squeaking Pedal
The damper pedal on my upright piano squeaks every time I press down or release on it. Is there any way to lubricate or make the squeaking sound stop? Thanks in advance, 220.244.72.108 (talk) 09:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If it is an expensive piano don't do anything until you are sure you have good advice, or call in an expert. Its very easy to squirt some oil around but removing it later could be a very difficult and expensive task if its wrong. -- Q Chris (talk) 11:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I had exactly the same problem, and I was reluctant to fix it myself for fear of doing some damage. I asked the tuner, and he said to just carefully put a few drops of cooking oil, baby oil, or whatever oil I happened to have on hand, or a shot or two of oil-based cooking spray, on the mechanism - nothing more special or elaborate than that.  I thought he'd do it himself since he was there anyway, but he said I didn't need him to do that and I was more than capable.  We'd never met each other before, so he apparently didn't think it was the big issue I thought it may have been.  I did what he said, and it was fine.  I moved house and never saw him again, so I don't know whether the fact that it wasn't a particularly expensive piano made any difference to his approach to what I would have thought were part of a piano tuner's role.  But thanks for the reminder; my piano's been squeaking again lately, so I'm off to the kitchen to fix it.   --  JackofOz (talk) 12:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * you keep your piano in the kitchen?? -- LarryMac  | Talk  12:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * maybe the cooking oil/spray is in the kitchen -- Julia Rossi (talk) 12:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So that's why he keeps the piano there! I get it now.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  13:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Petroleum-based oil or grease should last longer than vegetable oil. mackstann (talk) 10:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Far be it from me to contradict a piano tuner, but cooking oils can go rancid or turn gummy on year-or-so timescales. I'd favor a mineral oil or machine oil.  -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The trouble with mineral or machine oils is that there is likely to be a lot of nice wood nearby - and it's going to soak up oil and will get stained irrevocably. Vegetable oils and baby oil are more natural materials that won't do such terrible things to the wood.  I think the tuner guy knew his stuff.  Using the correct lubricant for the right situation is a complicated business. SteveBaker (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Baby Oil *is* mineral oil. From an manufacturer's page : "Ingredients: Mineral Oil and Fragrance" Unless you're talking about oil made from babies, rather than oil for babies. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 17:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I used to work for a pipe organ company and one of the main lubricants we used for mechanisms that aren't visible was graphite. It comes in a spray can, a stick (similar dimensions to oil pastels), a powder, and another kind of a stick called a pencil. That stuff is great for when you don't want to swell up the wood with an oil and cause a tight mechanism to become tighter. If it's visible I'd suggest mineral oil out of all of the oils listed, or if it's a pin that's squeeking you can even use some wax. Pull out the pin and cover it with some wax and get some wax in the hole and put it back. We actually used the toilet wax ring seal for these types of things, but mostly for screws. I'd suggest graphite or mineral oil before wax just because that's how we did things. - Lamba  jan  16:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree - dry graphite is a great lubricant for small, non-load-bearing mechanisms where you don't want to risk dust sticking to something goopy. I use graphite for door locks and such like.  The reason I didn't suggest it here is because it's black and it smudges over everything so it might make a mess of nearby wood.  We could also consider a silicone lubricant.  Wax is good - but not if the object in question gets cold...that's probably not a problem for a piano. SteveBaker (talk) 17:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * indeed. good lubes for such applications: graphite as in the powdered stuff for locks- but it makes black marks. talcum powder is ok for emergencies, but it absorbs humidity and loses effectiveness quickly. they sell powdered teflon these days for locks, that would seem to be the best idea. wax,soap,etc. work but you need to take the thing apart to get into the moving parts, which you'd probably like to avoid. Gzuckier (talk) 19:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Animal Costume
Ok, I've got a fancy dress party in 3 days and I need to dress up (or attempt to dress up) as an animal. Problem is that I've got a very limited selection of clothing and stuff at home (nothing vaguely resembles an animal) and I'll be too busy to get to a shop let alone make something until just before the party. I'm also not to keen to be spending a great deal on something that I'm only going to wear for a couple of hours.

Given these ridiculous restrictions, does anyone have any suggestions or know any sites that would be able to show me how to make a costume? It doesn't have to be anything spectacular, just half decent and enough to make people think I've made a slight attempt at it. 121.218.194.188 (talk) 11:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could go as a party animal. Or a lounge lizard.  :)  --  JackofOz (talk) 11:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * How about getting a red top and sticking big black-circles on it, wearing black leggings (ideally) or trousers and shoes and trying to claim you are a ladybird? Failing that try this page (http://familycrafts.about.com/od/costumeideas/tp/fastcostume.htm) 194.221.133.226 (talk) 12:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ears + makeup = animal. Ears can be made of stiffened fabric or painted cardboard, and attached to a hat or a headband.  Face paint is easily attainable.  So, for a cat, put cat ears on a headband, paint whiskers on your cheeks, and choose some fairly neutral clothes.  For a rabbit, do the ears, plus find something you can glue to your butt for a tail, like the pompom from a winter hat.  Humor can make up for costume deficits, too- anything you can think of to add that would be funny will score you party points. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There are party outfitters that will rent you costumes. If you're too busy to go to one of those in the the next three days, how come you can afford the time to go to a party? DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, surely it's not that uncommon for someone to be terribly busy for a number of days in a row? I mean, I've certainly been there. That said, I would imagine that going to a store would take a lot less time than making a decent animal costume yourself. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 18:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Pig-costume in 30 seconds:
 * 1) Cut one 3-inch diameter circle of pink cardboard
 * 2) Cut one 10-inch by 1.5-inch strip of pink cardboard
 * 3) Wrap the strip into a cylinder
 * 4) Glue the circle onto the end of the cylinder. Add nostrils with a black marker.
 * 5) Attach over your nose with a rubber band
 * Make ears if you want. A girl's hairband can hold them up.
 * If you friends like puns, wrap yourself in a blanket.  Plasticup  T / C  01:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dead or alive? Wear something red, wrap yourself in a roll of cling wrap and tuck a bunch of parsley behind your ear and you can be animal protein in a supermarket... tape a label with description, barcode and price made with texta. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You could make a catgirl/boy costume if you lack some materials and anime is your thing.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 06:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

When I was very young,for an ugly bug ball,my mother painted me blue and attached half a bottle to my head.You can guess what creature I was supposed to be :) Lemon martini (talk) 10:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Aircraft flying sideways?
On a recent transatlantic flight, I looked out of the plane window and was fairly surprised to see another aircraft in the sky below me. I have no idea what altitude we were flying at, I'm afraid, but it was some time after take-off, so it must have been fairly high. I know there are rules governing how much space is allowed between two aircraft in flight, but if I could clearly see the plane below me, would that constitute a near miss?

What was even more surprising was that the plane below me appeared to be flying sideways. That is to say, it was moving in the direction of the starboard wing, rather than (as I had expected) in the direction of the nose. Could this have been an optical illusion, or is it possible that it really was flying in that direction? --Richardrj talkemail 12:31, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * See Flight level and Reduced Vertical Separation Minima for information on vertical separation. Other planes can seem quite close while still obeying the vertical separation rules&mdash;I've been taken by surprise at times, too.  I would guess that the plane appearing to fly sideways was mostly an optical illusion, probably due to the motion of your own plane (you "feel like" you're at rest, and attribute all of the relative motion to the other plane).  -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Flying Sideways? Probably there was a big difference in wind speed and direction at the two altitudes. This is not at all uncommon.  Since aircraft fly relative to the air mass they are in - it's perfectly possible that they seem to be moving somewhat sideways compared to the ground - but compared to the air they are flying within - they are going forwards.  It's also possibly for an aircraft to sideslip by banking the wings in one direction and using the rudder to turn the aircraft in the opposite direction...although it's unlikely that a commercial airliner would be doing that in mid-atlantic - so I'm sticking with the "cross-wind" theory.


 * Near Collision? The rules covering the altitudes that aircraft fly at to avoid collisions are complicated: Flight level covers it moderately well. Basically, aircraft should be separated (vertically) by either 1,000 or 2,000 feet. But transatlantic-capable aircraft are HUGE and when something that's around 200 feet across is only 1,000 feet away, it's going to seem awfully close.  If it really was a "near miss" then the pilots involved would have reported it to the Aviation Safety Reporting System.  You can check here to see if your flight reported a near-miss situation. SteveBaker (talk) 13:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The pilot was probably using his rudder to perform a forward slip. It makes it look like they are flying sideways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlo2012 (talk • contribs) 17:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

oops sorry someone had already mentioned that--Dlo2012 (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's possible - but why do that in the middle of the Atlantic ocean? Sideslip manouvers are pretty much only used (by big airliners) when approaching a runway for a landing with a cross-wind.   Mid-atlantic, the plane is on autopilot. SteveBaker (talk) 17:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's probably much simpler than that. If the other plane was flying at a very slightly different angle to you, relative motion would make it seem to be flying sideways. E.g. you are flying at 600mph and the other plane is at the same speed but on a three degree different course from you (a barely noticeable difference in direction) it would seem to have a motion relative to you of 30mph directly sideways - i.e. pretty fast. That's without any sideslip or use of rudder. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Google Earth and Wikipedia
How does Google Earth collect data for its Wikipedia layer? And how often it is updated? Thank you. Eklipse (talk) 13:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Some Wikipedia pages have a 'template' at the top that records the location of the place or event that's being described - you can see it pop up at the top-right of the page. Look (for example) at the shopping complex The Domain (Austin, Texas) - at the top-right of the page you'll see "Coordinates:" then some kind of a blue splodge icon then a pair of numbers.  Those are the latitude and longitude of the place being talked about (in degrees).  If you edit that page and scroll down to the bottom - you'll see:




 * Which is what makes that text appear up there. Google's search engine looks through pretty much every page on the Internet via a process called "spidering" and indexes what it finds. I guess that one of their people thought it would be a pretty neat hack to find those templates and incorporate them into Google maps.  The frequency at which Google spider a page depends on a lot of complex math - relating to how often they've seen the page change in the past, how important the page is and how often the search terms people enter cause it to pop up in searches.  So the frequency could vary between many times per day for news sources to once a month or less for rarely visited and rarely updated parts of the net.


 * There are several other templates that bring up coordinates like this - the one that is used for all towns and cities (for example) contains that same feature.  It's very cool that Google do this - and I think Wikipedians should make an effort to add these tags whenever they sensibly can.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 13:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Google's FAQ on the issue is here, and supports Steve's analysis. There are other geo templates than coord, but coord is preferred and there are actions ongoing to deprecate other methods, so as to reduce the confusion that abounds in the area of geo-tagging. The FAQ says that google updates from Wikipedia in respect of coords every 1 to 3 months. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes I've thought about the coord template, however Google displays just a little fraction of these articles. Eklipse (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It appears to be more or less the same section of the article header that you get when you hover over a link if you have Tools/Navigation_popups turned on in your Wikipedia user preferences. It's the first paragraph - unless it's very short or something. SteveBaker (talk) 21:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When browsing a Google-map of America, the Wikipedia links cover 100% of the area until almost the smallest resolution. It is quite incredible.  Plasticup  T / C  01:32, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, my question was why not all WP links are represented. But you claim the opposite. I'll recheck. Eklipse (talk) 18:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

"Fed pumps $70B into nation's financial system"
I have little background in economics so what is happening is unclear. Can anyone recommend background reading? Thanks.

Lotsofissues 16:58, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * See debasement. Saintrain (talk) 17:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What? It's got nothing to do with debasement. --Tango (talk) 17:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe the Fed is pumping out de basement. --- OtherDave (talk) 18:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * heh heh. Is that where they're printing it?  Saintrain (talk) 00:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In short, banks are scared so are keeping hold of all their cash rather than lending it to each other as they usually do. This means banks that need cash can't get it so can't stay in business. In order to prevent banks having to take drastic action (up to and including bankruptcy), the central bank is lending them money. --Tango (talk) 17:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * nice description of the international credit crunch, amidst a lot of editorialization: http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/355_transcript.pdf Gzuckier (talk) 18:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There's lots of intelligent articles on this at www.economist.com in particular their finance section (http://www.economist.com/finance/). Though they are written in a technical language it's not hard to understand what's going on. I would recommending reading around on wikipedia, articles such as Federal Reserve, Subprime mortgage crisis (and the many articles linked to from there) ny156uk (talk) 19:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers guys but I should have narrowed down what I meant. I don't understand what "pumping money" means? How does that work? Lotsofissues 23:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The "injection" that your article writes about is not the most interesting thing happening right now, and it is described here. What happens is the Fed buys a bunch of Government bonds on the open market, which increases the amount of cash in the economy (people who owned bonds now own cash), which increases general liquidity. With more cash around it is easier for everyone (including banks) to secure the loans they need to make it through this rough patch. The bigger (and more interesting problem) is more-or-less a bank run, except that instead of individuals withdrawing their money it is other banks withdrawing their money. Well, technically they are refusing to roll-over debt, but the motivation and effects are identical. What the Federal Reserve is doing is (and your Yahoo! article totally missed this) is offering a loan to the American International Group, a gigantic corporation which is about to fail. Even if the loan isn't repaid in full, it may keep the company afloat long enough that parts of the group can be sold off, making the collapse less devastating. This is interesting because it is exactly what the Fed refused to do with Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers.  Plasticup   T / C  01:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Where does the Fed get the money to buy so much?  Didn't the fed assist in making the Bear Stearns buy happen?  Lotsofissues 01:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Check out Federal Reserve System. --Tango (talk) 13:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Help me identify my vacation photos
I photographed these two cute cars in England and haven't managed to identify them. Can anyone help? There are more pictures at the Humanities, Language and Science desks. Thanks, BenRG (talk) 17:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The second one looks like it's an electric buggy as used by the elderly and disabled with a custom body on it. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's an enclosed mobility scooter called an EVS Rainrider . Mikenorton (talk) 21:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know about the second one, but the first one is a Caterham 7. I wouldn't know this otherwise, but a friend of mine recently realized what was apparently a bit of a lifelong dream and bought one. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 18:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've added the Caterham 7 image to the article on the subject. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It was apparently one of the vehicles sold in kit form: it has a 'Q' registration. --ColinFine (talk) 22:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks everyone. I may get me one of those Rainriders. I already have a recumbent bicycle and that would be the next step up in awesomeness. -- BenRG (talk) 23:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I do believe the second is a Peel P50 Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  01:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The Peel is a three wheeled car. There are clearly three wheels visible in the second image, one at each corner. We can infer the fourth. So, err, no. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Free hugs!
In anime conventions, one really can't move for adolescent women with signs advertising "Free hugs!" Are they being serious about offering free hugs, or is it just for show? I've never dared to try it out, as I have not seen anyone else do it either. J I P | Talk 19:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They're probably serious, it's a popular thing. See Free Hugs Campaign — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 19:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Benjamin Josiah Huggs was imprisoned in Okinotorishima for producing cheap cartoons at appallingly low frame rates and making the eyes way too big. "Free Huggs!" (I think you misread it).  Enjoins everyone to sign a petition...
 * OK, look never mind - yes, they hug you if you ask. SteveBaker (talk) 20:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been a while since we had a good Southpark reference. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

GIRLS give regular free hugs at Trafalgar Square on any given day,no catches,nothing asked for in return. Signed, Fluter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.86.15.15 (talk) 14:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Joanne Creighton
Who is or are the siblings of Joanne Creighton, President of Mount Holyoke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.243.208.63 (talk) 20:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

fauxhawk?
I need to know, is a fauxhawk appropriate for a workplace? I work at an office, and i have a fauxhawk. It isn't one of those really big fauxhawks that many people have that reach a foot. The spike in the middle only reaches up about an inch. Do you think it is ok for a workplace?--72.146.115.196 (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Depends on the ethos of the place and how the hairstyle looks on you. I don't think there's a general rule of thumb for this sort of thing. If you're not customer facing, it might be less of an issue. See also Fauxhawk if, like me, you had not a clue what the question was about. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The only person that can possibly answer that question is your boss. --Tango (talk) 22:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Well what i am asking is if you met an employee with a fauxhawk, what would you think of them. My fauxhawk kinda looks like David Beckham's fauxhawk, just shorter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.146.115.196 (talk) 22:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What industry are you in and what do you do and where are you located? All of these factors come into play.  --Nricardo (talk) 00:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah - if you were a computer game artist (such as I work with quite often) - we'd mock you horribly but it would in no way inhibit your career. If on the other hand you intended to become a bank manager...no way.  Somewhere between those two extremes is your job - but unless you tell us what that is - we can't really offer advice. SteveBaker (talk) 01:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

What i'm asking is if it is a little bit smaller than the one in this picture.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp0.blogger.com/_puFfKD8sh_A/R-xXlnIEfhI/AAAAAAAAAdI/uKikEDtZplM/s400/photo-9.jpg&imgrefurl=http://libbylogic.blogspot.com/2008/03/fight-faux-hawk.html&h=300&w=400&sz=17&hl=en&start=78&usg=__60Lye5I8ZLIBXb1FeUSyQy0H5_w=&tbnid=whTzh8o2Vn2s2M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsmall%2Bfaux%2Bhawk%26start%3D63%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

is it ok? I'm a door to door salesman by the way —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlo2012 (talk • contribs) 16:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll sell more stuff if you have as unremarkable a hairstyle as possible. A pity, perhaps... Itsmejudith (talk) 16:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, my customers don't seem to mind. I'm selling just as much as i used to before changing my hair, and I have actually gotten some compliments on my hair. --Dlo2012 (talk) 23:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC) In the UK their regarded as quite trendy me thinks, (probably becuase David become had one, and he's like our Jesus), so yeah, you could probably get away with it even if you were a banker. (ps. love the word!)217.169.40.194 (talk) 09:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

What kind of tree is this?
This is the second time I'm come to Wikipedia asking about plants...

So we have an average, everyday tree in our front yard with berries which we can't identify. My mom seems worried that if we pick some of the berries from it and feed them to our goats, they might get sick. I doubt it (partially because goats are smart and would probably know if it was something bad, and partially because I don't know of anything that they won't eat), but I suppose it can't hurt to make sure... Anyone have any idea what it is? I'm sure that some rule stickler out there will mention that Wikipedia can't give advice when it comes to medical (or veterinary, in this case) stuff, but I'd like it noted that I'm not actually asking whether or not it's safe; I'm asking what it is. :P

(We are in Montana, if that helps... The berries are redish orange on the outside and bright orange on the inside. Watery but firm in the middle. And they smell vaguely of apples...)

Thanks in advance. You guys are always really helpful.

(PS: Sorry for the crappy image quality... My camera phone sucks.) --69.146.230.243 (talk) 22:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Could be an Acacia. DuncanHill (talk) 22:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like a Rowan to me. If so, from the article, "Rowan berries contain sorbic acid, an acid that takes its name from the Latin name of the genus Sorbus. Raw berries also contain parasorbic acid (about 0.4%-0.7% in the European rowan[3]), which causes indigestion and can lead to kidney damage, but heat treatment (cooking, heat-drying etc.) and, to a lesser extent, freezing, neutralises it, by changing it to the benign sorbic acid." Whether that affects goats or not, I know not. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Now I look at that, yes rowan looks much more likely. DuncanHill (talk) 22:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, many thanks... This is very helpful. --69.146.230.243 (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could make Rowan Jelly to eat with your goats. . DuncanHill (talk) 23:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * (ec): The stuff (de: Vogelbeere) is used for jams in Bavaria / Austria / Czech Republic. So it would seem to be edible after the heat treatment mentioned by Tagishsimon.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ha ha... Oh, dear. Well considering that these goats are not meant to be eaten, I'm not sure that we'll go there, but thanks. :P And that's actually rather interesting... I think we shall try some of this jam later on. --69.146.230.243 (talk) 23:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a jam like one would have on a scone, but is very nice with roast & grilled meats, cold meats, etc. DuncanHill (talk) 23:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't know. Rowan jam on a scone would go beautifully with my world-renowned Creamed Cat and Spleen Surprise.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)