Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 September 21

= September 21 =

How can there be more than one singularity?
Supposedly, at the bottom of every black hole, lies a singularity. A one point, eternal, foundation of nowhere and nowhen. How is this possible? Is it mathematically related to infinite subsets of infinity? i.e. {all even numbers}, {all numbers greater that 16} {all fractions between 1 and 2}, etc.

For that matter, what exactly is a singularity? I realize we're all gonna find out any day now, but it still would be nice to know something in advance. I'm not into visiting places on Earth I know nothing about, and I aint to crazy about being yanked out of town to visit Singularityville. So if it isn't too much trouble, please brief me a little about the weather, interesting places to visit, etc so I can at least make the best of it. :)--Dr. Carefree (talk) 03:42, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you've worn out this topic on the Science desk. Is that why you brought it here, or is your intention simply to share your irrational fear with others? --Scray (talk) 04:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You may find this interesting. --Tango (talk) 11:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "Singularity" in the context of a black hole means a mathematical singularity. The theory (general relativity) breaks down there; nobody believes that it correctly predicts the "breakdown of the real world". So, it isn't possible. Also, we're not going to find out any day now, since (a) the LHC is currently out of commission pending repairs that will take months, (b) it will take months to years of data collection and analysis to identify new phenomena at a high confidence level, (c) it's very unlikely that the LHC will produce black holes to begin with, and (d) observing a black hole in the lab wouldn't tell us what's happening inside the event horizon. -- BenRG (talk) 11:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I brought this topic here because I wasn't quite sure if this was math, science, or what. Sorry if I was beating a dead horse, but yes, I've been thinking alot about black holes per my Science Desk posts. I'm a really curious person, and as any scientist can tell you, one question often leads to many others.

I was more interested in the first question, anyways. Because, from a logical standpoint, "many singularities" doesnt seem to make any more sense than "many infinities". The second half was just a humorous attempt (note the smiley face) to pad a worst case scenerio so it can sit in my mind somewhat comfortably. I think about worst case scenerios alot, because like any uncomfortable guest, -once you stop paying attention, he's likely to trash the place.Dr. Carefree (talk) 18:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Many infinities does make sense, though. If we consider regular Euclidean space, you can think of an infinity in every direction - each direction yields a different point at infinity. Singularities can, in the right coordinate system, be thought of as points at infinity, and there can be more than one of them. Also, I don't believe there is any requirement in general relativity for there to exist a single coordinate system describing the whole of a given space, you may have to patch together different systems in order to describe the whole space - there could be only one singularity per patch. --Tango (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't see how 'many singularities' makes any less sense than 'several units'. --ColinFine (talk) 22:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Damper Pedal
Well, about the squeaking pedal in this question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Squeaking_Pedal, it's not the bottom part of the pedal squeaking, but the mechanism inside the piano. How can you lubricate the mechanism?

btw, I can't reach the thing inside ;) 220.244.109.31 (talk) 05:49, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that graphite powder is probably the way to go. Have you managed to get the front panel off? They usually come away quite easily without requiring any tools. Further to that I suggest you find a piano forum where you can get expert advice.--Shantavira|feed me 08:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Assuming it's an upright of normal design:
 * Open the lid
 * find the toggles at either end that hold the front panel in, and turn them to release it
 * lift out the front panel
 * the mechanism is held in by two or more screw fasteners. Unscrew these, and you can lift the entire mechanism out.


 * You'll find the pedal mechanism is a vertical rod at one side or the other, which lifts a lever on the mechanism.


 * Good luck --ColinFine (talk) 22:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Einstein refrigerator
Moved to the science desk. My mistake. --antilivedT 10:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

"God created the inegers" by stephen hawking
Im thinking of getting this book. Do you think Id be able to understand it? Im an A-level student doing the sciences and maths. --RMFan1 (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've never read it, but it looks like it contains actual mathematical papers, so you will probably struggle to understand it all of it. However, that's no reason no to give it a go - try and understand as much as you can, and then come back to it in few years once you've got a greater mathematical background. I read a book on p-adic numbers in my 1st year of Uni that was very much over my head, but I'm now reading it again because I'm going to do my 4th year project on them - having read it before (even though I didn't understand much of it) meant I knew I found the topic interesting enough to do a project on, and gives me a head start in understanding the book the second time through. --Tango (talk) 14:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It depends what you are looking for. God Created the Integers is a collection of English translations of 31 important works in the history of mathematics, from Euclid to Alan Turing. There is some introductory material about each author written by Hawking, but it does not attempt to explain the concepts of mathematics in any systematic way. Some parts, such as Turing's paper On Computable Numbers, are reasonably accessible, but most parts are mainly of historical interest. If you are looking for a general introduction to mathematics you will probably be better off with something like Ian Stewart's From Here to Infinity or Courant and Robbins' What is Mathematics?. Gandalf61 (talk) 15:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The newly released Princeton Companion to Mathematics is also at about the right level, and looks very good (disclosure: I am acquainted with two of the editors). Algebraist 18:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe you could rent it from the library (no charge!) and find out for yourself without dishing out X amount of dollars for something that might as well be in another language? --71.98.24.10 (talk) 02:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Two questions regarding the movie - Wanted
1. Is it really possible to curve the bullet? 2. Is there a bath anything like that showed in the movie, that can refresh / cure your body? --V4vijayakumar (talk) 13:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 1. Not practically. In order to change an objects direction, you need to apply a force when the object is changing directions. Once the bullet leaves the gun, any force given to the gun stops, leaving the bullet to travel in a straight line. Only forces which act on the bullet after it leaves the gun can curve its trajectory. One of these is gravity. Like any object, a bullet will curve downward in the shape of a parabola. (Not what you're looking for, though.) The only other force which can act is aerodynamics. It may be theoretically possible to get a "curve" on a bullet by shaping the exterior of the bullet such that it generates an aerodynamic force. This is what causes the curve of a curveball. Any force would likely be minor, though, and unlikely to do things like you see in the Wanted trailers. Additionally, most guns are rifled, to spin the bullet and stabilize it. You would need a special gun to shoot your curve-bullet.


 * 2. Haven't seen the movie, but if there was a bath which had remarkable regenerative powers, Hollywood would be using it left and right, and we'd be plagued with late-night infomercials for "at home" regenerative baths. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, and no. And to preempt your next question, there is also no secret cult of assassins talking to God through a loom. Plasticup  T / C 04:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But the movie is excellent, ain't it? --Ouro (blah blah) 06:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't think so, no. I even went in expecting a dumb and exciting action movie, but it had pretensions of being so much more. I don't mind dumb movies that don't take themselves seriously, but there is nothing worse than a bad movie that tries to be "deep". Plasticup  T / C 04:30, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible (theoretically) to have a bullet curve in flight...but we have to be careful how we describe this:


 * Newtons' laws of motion requires that some outside force is applied in order to have the bullet change direction after it leaves the gun. A bullet fired in a vacuum would require little 'rocket thrusters' to apply forces to make it curve.  But in air, there are some other options.


 * Soccer players and baseball pitchers can easily cause a ball to curve...to change direction after the 'projectile' has left the 'launcher'. They do this by spinning the ball and rely on the fact that air drag increases as the square of the velocity - so the side of the ball that's rotating forwards gets more drag than the side that's rotating backwards - hence the drag force through the air is asymmetrical and the ball curves in flight.  It would be perfectly feasible to construct a gun that spun the bullet to make it curve in flight.  However, that curve would be 'built in' to the way the bullet was spinning as it left the barrel.


 * However, one could imagine a bullet containing a gyroscope with a teeny-tiny motor and battery to change the rate of spin of the outside of the bullet by rotating the gyroscope in the opposite direction. A sensor in the nose of the bullet - or radio control from the gun - could cause the motor to spin up or slow down - and thereby steer the aerodynamic curve of the bullet after it left the gun. Alternatively, the bullet could pop out little fins and steer itself like a missile - or use tiny jets of compressed air to adjust its trajectory.  So it's not 100% impossible...in theory at least.


 * If the bullet aimed itself using some kind of tiny thermal camera - then it's possible that it could be fired from a conventional gun. The spin imparted by the gun would greatly complicate matters - but an undersized and very hard bullet would fail to adhere to the spiral 'rifleing' inside the barrel so it wouldn't spin so much - and whatever gyro/thruster/fin mechanism steers it could be designed to remove any undesirable spin or account for it while steering.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 11:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In the movie the bullet travels in a complete circle. I haven't taken a physics class in a while, but changing the direction that much would require as much energy as was originally put into the bullet, yes? Maybe? Plasticup  T / C 04:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. Planets don't require any energy to keep them in orbit. If you had some centripetal force (eg a piece of string fixed to a central point), the force would change the bullet's velocity but not its speed, and therefore not its kinetic energy. --ColinFine (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Applying to Cambridge
I got 3 Bs and a C at AS level but only because I had a shit year, didnt study much etc. But I am definitely capable of all As. So Im working my ass of this year and think I can end up with 3 As at A level and could get the C at AS up to an A as well. So I think I can get the grades required for a competitive application to cambridge but since i have to apply now, all they're going to see is what Ive got right now: 3 Bs and a C. Is there any chance of them giving me a conditional offer, the condition being I get my grades up to As or whatever? Or is there a way I could explain that I am capable of getting the required grades so that they at least consider me? From my knowledge of how applying works, I fear that as soon as they see my current grades they'll turn me down and I won't have a chance of getting in --RMFan1 (talk) 14:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that you may be right, Cambridge is likely too look at your current grades and your predictions and say, NO. You have a chance though if you got very good GCSE grades and write an excellent personal statement, you might get an interview, and if you do it had better go very well for yo to have a chance. But really, no I'm sorry it's not likely. Harland1 (t/c) 14:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They may consider your expected grades, rather than you currently obtained grades, do your teachers agree that you can get them to A's? I think you would need to give a very good reason for having done badly in the 1st year ("didn't study much" isn't going to cut it!). If they give you an offer, it will almost always be conditional (they sometimes give low offers (3 E's, say) to extremely good applicants that they really want and don't want to lose just because they have a bad day for the exam, but they don't give many of those). Cambridge will also require something more than just good grades to get in - if you have some impressive extra-curricular stuff it would definitely help. (Disclaimer: I applied to Cambridge, reached the interview stage, but was rejected, so I'm not an expert on how to get in! I suspect the lack of any good extra-curricular stuff let me down.) --Tango (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well my teachers feel the same way I do, I was too lazy at AS so until they see that I am working hard this year I dont think theres anything they can do. As for extra-curricular activities, rowing will definitely give me a boost, I am a prefect, and am taking part in other activities but i doubt that alone will make much of a difference --RMFan1 (talk) 14:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's just that you didn't work hard last year, I really don't think you'll be able to get in. You could try taking a gap year and applying afterwards once you have your A-level results and have done something worthwhile for a year, but it's a long shot (and they'll want to know why you didn't apply now and just defer, which is the usual way of taking a gap year). You're probably better off settling for another Uni. --Tango (talk) 14:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do have a good read through, as well as speaking to your school's careers advisor. DuncanHill (talk) 14:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

If a selective school has a choice between an applicant who got bad or mediocre grades and has hopes or promises of getting better grades, and another applicant who got good grades consistently, the school is ikely to take the student with the unblemished record, unless there are countervailing factors in favor of the less diligent scholar, such as a desire for geographical balance in the student body, athletic prowess, influential relatives or relatives likely to donate huge sums of money to the school. It is pretty common for people who have had a bad year to aspire to do better. It does not always happen. Edison (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the particulars of the English system or your personal resources but if you, say, were in the US, I'd tell you to try and find a real college counselor (e.g. the type that work for expensive private schools, not the schmoes they use at public schools who get paid a shit salary), because someone like that can really make the difference in applications and can tell you with reasonable precision what your options really are. Hiring one for personal work is not cheap but if you're serious about playing in the big leagues they can make the difference, at least in the US. Most people who don't experience with those sorts of institutions directly are not aware of how vital someone like that can be. It's not about shady dealings (at those levels of education, money doesn't mean much unless you've REALLY got it), it's about knowing exactly how the admission offices of these sorts of institutions work and knowing exactly how to market the student. (And knowing what's a lost cause.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of anyone in the UK paying for someone to help them fill out Uni applications. Most schools/colleges will have people that can help, though, and it's a good idea to talk to them. --Tango (talk) 20:14, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The important step in getting into Cambridge is to perform well at interview, not to fill in the form well. There are certainly people who charge (a lot of) money to coach people for the interview. Of course, a good school will do this for free. Algebraist 21:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if you got 5 As at AS you would not necessarily get an interview at Oxbridge. But why fret about it? Sounds like you will get the grades to get into into a good "pre-1992" uni and so long as you work consistently you'll enjoy your time and do really well there. If that doesn't appeal, then consider doing an apprenticeship and earning some money straight away. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

For the benefit of non-UK readers, what is "AS?" In the US there is high school. Edison (talk) 23:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The last two years of what you would call High school is what we call sixth form. Just under half of 16-18 year olds take the traditional "General Certificate of Education Advanced level" university entrance route in this phase. They can study either in the same school where they were from 11-16 or in a sixth form college or in a further education college, depending on what the set-up is in the area where they live. After one year, students take Advanced Subsidiary Level (AS), usually in four or five subjects. Then in the second year they go on to take A2, usually in three to four subjects. The pass grades are A, B, C, D and E. You apply to uni through UCAS at the start of your second year (i.e. about now), when you know your AS grades and your teachers predict your A2 grades. The unis give offers conditional on obtaining certain grades at A2. Generally speaking, Oxford and Cambridge universities (the equivalent of your Ivy League) are looking for straight As. Other internationally-renowned universities might want ABB at A2. Even if you only get two Es, you can probably get in somewhere to do something, but at that point you really do need good careers advice. The above applies in England. Totally different in Scotland. Itsmejudith (talk) 23:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * See also Advanced Level (UK), for examination & assessment details. Gwinva (talk) 23:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To the OP: if you really want to go to Cambridge, then give a shot...you'll never know unless you try. It might also depend on what school you now attend: in an attempt to widen the applications (ie get a balance of people from various education backgrounds), Oxbridge have in the past interviewed some students with low grades, if they believed they might achieve higher results given a better environment.  But while Cambridge has a certain name and status, there are many other quality universities in the UK worth considering. Depending on your subject, your extra-curricular interests, or your socialising preferences, other universities might be more suitable (just one example: if you like city life, you might find Cambridge too small).  Talk to people you know who have been to different universities.  Visit some of them. Consider the lecture sizes, the pastoral care and support, the cost of living, the student facilities and accommodation, the availability of part time work to supplement your money, and so on. Gwinva (talk) 23:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You have other university choices to fall back on, so you might as well apply to Cambridge if you really want to. You will, needless to say, have to devote part of your personal statement to explaining your low AS grades, and it may be advisable to ring the admissions secretary or similar at the college you apply to (don't submit an open application in your situation) in order to clarify your chances. If you get rejected before the interview stage, then it is still worth attempting to ring up or communicate directly with the college to argue your case. As was mentioned before, however, I think it would be best to take a year out and wait for your A2 results before applying.-- Diniz (talk)  23:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

If you're not familiar with Cambridge, go and take a look around, and also look at some other universities with good reputations in the subject you wish to study. If your heart is still set on Cambridge, I'd go for the year out option - the chances of being interviewed for Cambridge with BBBC at AS are slim; the chances of being interviewed with AAA achieved at A level are high, and you may be able to use the year out to gain some valuable relevant experience. If a year out isn't an option, then by all means apply to Cambridge, but don't expect too much, and look seriously at your other options - BBBC should get you offers on most courses at most universities. Part of my job involves working on university admissions; most of the advice above looks sound to me, but don't think of getting someone else to write your personal statement - we would take a very dim view of this, and have in the past withdrawn offers due to personal statements being plagiarised from websites. Warofdreams talk 09:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all your advice guys. If I applied to the unis I want to go to this year including cambridge and say cambridge didnt give me an offer. Then at A2 I did in fact achieve all As and decided I wanted to take a gap year to try and get into cambridge the following year, would I be at any disadvantage because of the fact Ive already applied or would they still have to reconsider me? --RMFan1 (talk) 14:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't say for sure whether this would put you at a disadvantage, but I'm sure that Cambridge would have your previous rejection on file, and might choose to take it in to account. Universities have to, on request, give reasons for their rejections, and if this situation did arise, it might be wise to check the reason (to see if the rejection is solely on the grounds of your predicted grades), and enquire directly from the department you are applying to how they would view an application based on actual grades, after a year out. Warofdreams talk 15:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Laminated padlocks
What exactly is a laminated padlock? What is the lamination, that is :-) Thanks! ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 15:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The word "laminated" appears to be in the sense of "flat plate" (which I think is what a lamina is but haven't looked it up). Thus a laminated padlock is one made of stacked metal plates instead of a solid block of metal. Look at "laminated padlock" on Google Images. Also, this on Answers.com has a clear explanation (paragraph beginning "In the early 1920s...").--212.248.232.249 (talk) 16:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. Would you happen to know what the security benefit of such a structure is? ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 16:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There may be better answers, but my sense has always been that they are easy to manufacture, but not the ideal design from a security standpoint. --Scray (talk) 20:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * From Master Lock: About Us: "In 1919, locksmith and inventor Harry Soref had a thought: if bank vault doors and battle ships were built in laminated layers of steel for greater strength, why not make padlocks the same way?" Note that this is compared to the hollow locks then in use - no word on if laminated locks are better than solid locks. However, constructing the lock out of many thinner layers may allow you to use a better grade of steel, one that might be impossible or very expensive to machine a solid padlock from. So while a solid padlock made of the same material might be better (although I can't say for sure), at a given price point you may be able to afford a better quality laminated lock than a solid lock. -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:14, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * With the laminated locks, you only have to hacksaw or drill through the two rivets that hold it together. Those don't seem to be as hard as the shackle - and they probably can't be because they have to be soft enough to form as rivets.  So for that reason, I presume the laminated kind are somewhat less secure than the solid body kind.  However, it's possible that some detail of the construction of solid padlocks makes them less secure for some other reason. SteveBaker (talk) 00:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * One possibility is face-hardening: you can only face-harden the surface of a piece of metal, but a laminated lock has far more faces to work with, so you can make hard all the way through, rather than just having a hardened outer shell. --Carnildo (talk) 22:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

2008 China Milk Scare
Generally speaking, will the babies that are affected by the melanin in the 2008 China Milk scandal recover from their kidney stones? Or will they suffer permanent kidney damages? Acceptable (talk) 15:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Since, as far as I know, there were some deaths reported among the infected babies, I'd say the damage is rather permanent. Start here. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * From melamine: "these melamine cyanurate crystals don’t dissolve easily. They go away slowly, if at all, so there is the potential for chronic toxicity.", so I'm guessing yes. --antilivedT 07:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Shipping cost, cheapest prices
What would be the cheapest way to ship a 20" - 24" CRT television from Colorado to Texas? Ground shipping would be the cheapest, of course and I am pretty sure USPS would be the cheapest carrier. However, I am not familiar with the way I can minimize my shipping costs. Please advise. Kushal (talk) 16:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I recommend using eBay's "Shipping calculator". The cost depends on both the size and weight of your package.  I'd guess that a 24" TV would need a 30"x30"x30" box and probably weighs about 30lbs.  That's too flat out too big and too heavy for USPS.  UPS Ground will charge you $130! (UPS Air, next day deliver is $750!!!)  No matter what, something that heavy will be costly to ship.  Have you considered selling your TV in Colorado and buying a new one in Texas?  You can pick up a used 24" TV in Dallas for ~$35 (I looked on Craigslist for about 30 seconds and found three at around that price) - you could do even better if you spent an afternoon cruising local garage sales.  I'd be very surprised if you could ship your TV to Texas for as little as $35 - so even if you gave away your TV for $0 - you'd still be better off!  Another consideration: Dunno whether you intend to get cable or satellite when you arrive in Texas - but remember that the impending change to digital TV in February means that there will be an awful lot of old Analog TV's on the market very soon! SteveBaker (talk) 21:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I do have cable, SteveBaker. I am not worried about the transition at all (who watches over the air, anyways?). A second television would be great. I can certainly wait for the old Analog TVs. Do you have any idea when this junk will start arriving in the market? I am giving the TV in Colorado away. There's no point. Kushal (talk) 22:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "Full-power terrestrial broadcasts using the analog NTSC standard will be required by law to cease by February 17, 2009." (see List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country). People can buy convertors - and there is a government voucher program to assist people with buying them - and cable/satellite TV will support analog TV for some time to come - so it's not like analog TV's suddenly become worthless.  However, the end of the line for analog TV is on the horizon and people will presumably start replacing them as the deadline looms.  So I presume (without proof) that the cost of used analog TVs has already dropped - or will soon start to drop.


 * At any rate - the answer to your original question remains the same - don't ship your TV - dump the old one and buy a used one in Texas to replace it. SteveBaker (talk) 23:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, Steve. You have been most helpful. Kushal (talk) 21:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Roommates and Sex
What does one do when one has been walked in on by one's roommate during sex? There was a warning sock on the door handle, so he just misunderstood, but I have no idea whether I should apologize, or leave for a week, or what.

So, what does one do?

146.57.84.68 (talk) 17:49, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Laugh it off? You should probably talk about it to ensure it won't happen again - clearly he wasn't familiar with the sock convention. --Tango (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've always thought it was pretty mandatory to have a "sex talk" with the roommate early on. Make sure you're on the same base with the conventions (socks on doors) and some basic rules (stay in your own bed, be courteous about how you are forcing people out of the room, don't be a pig about it during exams, etc.). Figure out, say, whether it is acceptable to have people occasionally spend the night (which is a burden on the other roommate and so should probably be limited). You probably should have already done that but now that you've had this you should confront it directly and have a good sit down over it. Don't overreact and don't be overly embarrassed but try to be sympathetic to your roommate, esp. if he is not actually going to likely be having over many ladyfolk of his own. In almost all roommate interactions the best policy is to know where the boundaries are and to then respect them—that way there are no surprises, no irritations, no awkward moments. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My kid just started at college and although they have individual bedrooms, they do share apartments. The college gives every student a copy of "The Naked Roommate: And 107 Other Issues You Might Run Into in College" by Harlan Cohen.  It's a really good book (and funny too) that covers exactly this kind of situation.  I strongly recommend it for both you and your victim roommate. SteveBaker (talk) 20:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Get a room! Your roommate is paying as much as you are. The only excuse for excluding the roommate from enjoyment of the premises is that the roommate has an equal expectation of privacy for such lyrical interludes as yours that that was briefly interrupted. You certainly have no expectation of seizing exclusive use of the room overnight, with the roommate left to sleep in a chair in the lounge. Get the dirty deed done, and send the correspondent on the "walk of shame" back to his/her residence. Edison (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could always invite him for a threesome I guess. -mattbuck (Talk) 23:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd never heard of the sock convention. Good thing to know (although I think it unlikely I'll ever be living in an American dorm). Steewi (talk) 23:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My room mate and I were able to talk about it. Whenever one of us had a friend over the other would sleep on the couch. Neither of us really abused the situation, and it worked out fine. It doesn't have to be a big deal if you both talk sensibly about it. Plasticup  T / C 04:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Any Way I could hear how this sounds?
Image talk:Lead Sheet.jpg Could someone upload a music file playing this short? (I'll give you a barnstar!)--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 19:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I made a MIDI file. www.geocities.com/bavi_h/Lead.mid --Bavi H (talk) 01:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A barnstar pimp! Plasticup  <font color="#2A8E82">T /<font color="#2A8E82"> C 04:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * that actually sounds pretty cool. Thanks Bavi! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ye Olde Luke (talk • contribs) 23:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I want this headwear
What's it called? Looks like I'll head to Turkmenistan one day. Lotsofissues (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This page says it's a 'telpek'. Steewi (talk) 23:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)