Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 April 24

= April 24 =

Deprivation = Naïveté?
Somebody told me that because I was deprived of something as a child, that would make me naïve. He assures me that this equation is true in any circumstance. Do you find this to be the case? - Vikramkr (talk) 00:05, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No, that is ridiculous. Though your thinking this makes any sense may indicate you are naive, or at least gullible ;-) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Deprivation of knowledge, maybe. Deprivation of basic needs? Probably just the opposite. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 02:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah - it doesn't make sense. Look at all of the people in the world who started off in the worst deprivation who "made it" to become really important in all kinds of ways.  If anything, the term "street smarts" applies!  Don't worry about it. SteveBaker (talk) 03:54, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Few people have absolutely everything as a child, so that would make almost everyone naive. That seems dubious to me. (In fact, I would think it was those few who do have everything that are more likely to be naive.) --Tango (talk) 10:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A good example is JFK, who according to conventional wisdom, truly did not realize how bad things could be for some people in the USA until he visited Appalachia. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Value of poker glassware set
We have a set of 8 glasses (each of which has a different poker hand etched in it and each glass rests in a small ashtray. However, neither the glasses nor the ashtray have any names on them.  We are trying to find out the value of the set.  We have googled, searched poker glassware sets, etc.  Cany anyone tell us where to look?  Jlastocy (talk) 02:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course there is art glass, which can be quite valuable, but generally speaking, glass of the kind you are describing is worthless. It's yard sale material. Oh, maybe it's worth $50 dollars--what the market will bear--but it's not valuable. There has been so much glass production in this country over the years the mind reels; it's basically sand with a small heat and craft investment. That's why every thriftstore has a wall of glasses all going for 25-50¢ per. You're just going to have to trust me on this: Glass with etched or pressed poker hands on it, is not art glass. I'll give you one tip though, if the edges of the impression are sharply defined, it is better quality than if they're rounded. Rounded means its pressed glass, ergo, really, really cheap. But we're only talking about a difference of $5 verses $50. Sorry but it's not treasure.—70.19.69.27 (talk) 02:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree: This:  is a set of novelty poker-related "vintage" glasses for $65 - that's an auction site, so this is an asking price not what it actually sold for (if it sells).  There are etched "crystal" poker-themed glasses  at $56.   Amazon.com have these  for $24 and these  are only $11.  With all of that competition, it's really unlikely that this stuff is worth anything much.  The only way to find out is to try to sell it - stick it on eBay with a reserve price you can live with and you'll find out. SteveBaker (talk) 03:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If it is valuable and you just don't know it, though, eBay probably won't know it either unless you can tell them precisely what it is. If you suspect it might be more valuable than your average poker-themed glassware (incidentally, where did it come from?) then it might be worth trying to identify it. It probably isn't worth paying to get it valued, though - the chances of it being worth anything are slim. --Tango (talk) 19:41, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Statistics on Age of Loss of Virginity
I'm looking for a breakdown of age of loss of virginity – the larger the sample size, the better. Ideally, American (or at least Western world) data, and differentiated by gender. Is this data online anywhere, or on Wikipedia itself (I didn't see it in the virginity article)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.181.228.210 (talk) 02:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I lost my virginity at 18 and I'm a good statistical sample because I'm many, many different people depending on the situation, or so my wife tells me.—70.19.69.27 (talk) 03:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to hear that, 70.19.69.27. :-) I'm hoping, however, that someone can point me towards a breakdown (preferably of a large sample) by age or age range, either with numbers or percentages ... as opposed to Wikipedians recounting their individual experiences. ;-) 207.181.228.210 (talk) 03:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Adolescent sexuality in the United States has some sourced statistics that would seem to be relevant to your question. Deor (talk) 03:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's equally appreciated. However, data on adolescents was fairly easily found on the Web -- the reason I phrased the request as I did above is because I'm hoping to find data that covers the statistical frequency of later-in-life virgins as well (as well as adolescents). 207.181.228.210 (talk) 03:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is one set of data from the Kinsey Institute, but they do not report much later in life. Page 6 on this pdf file has some information. According to their data, here are the percent virgins at various ages for females: 20yo-25.3, 21yo-22.4, 22yo-20.8, 23yo-9.7, 24yo-5, 25yo-7.9, 26yo-3.4. Here is another report by the CDC which is used by the Kinsey Institute.--droptone (talk) 12:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And page 51 of that last CDC report may be of interest to you.--droptone (talk) 12:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Bingo.  That page is exactly what I was looking for, and it's from the CDC to boot, nicely professional source. 207.181.228.210 (talk) 01:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Salute in propaganda poster
Recently, I was playing the game Democracy and in the game, there was a poster that looked like this poster in the background. The young girl on the left appears to be offering a salute of some sort and I have seen this before in a documentary footage of a military parade in Red Square in front of Nikita Khrushchev. What is this salute? Could her arm be a reference to sickle in the hammer and sickle? --Blue387 (talk) 02:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a "pioneer salute". See Young Pioneer organization of the Soviet Union. --Dr Dima (talk) 18:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Several variations of the Roman salute have been used throughout history. See also Bellamy salute and Hitler salute.  152.16.16.75 (talk) 00:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If I recall from my indoctrination as a Young Pioneer eons ago, one salutes above one's head demonstrating the will to aim higher and lift up the socialist enterprise, or something along those lines. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Utah street names, or lack thereof
So here's one that been bugging me for a long time...Why are streets in Utah given numbers like 200 West or 1300 North rather than names? This seems to be the norm in cities big and small across the state. I guess it makes sense from a logical point of view, but if you're not used to it, being presented with an address along the lines of 1345 N 300 East is beyond confusing. Any insights on this??? --199.89.175.226 (talk) 06:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Google found me this site: that explains it in some more detail.  Though as to why the system exists, maybe "just cuz" is the reason.  To be fair, numbers are easier to index than names are.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  21:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You might as well ask why other places use names. Growing up in Edmonton, which also has numbered streets almost exclusively, it always puzzled me why there were places that didn't.  But of course there are two answers: "We've always done it that way" and "Numbered streets don't make so much sense when the street plan isn't gridlike." --Anonymous, 03:12 UTC, April 25, 2009.


 * According to this page: When the streets were initially laid out in Salt Lake, the Latter-Day Saints temple was the center of the community. Roads in each direction from the temple were assigned a numeric name indicating how far it was from the temple as well as directional value, indicating the direction from the temple that the street was located. The Salt Lake City page says the numbers have to do with latitude and longitude, but there is a "citation needed" tag on that claim. I'm skeptical myself. I was under the impression that the distance between street had something more to do with acres. Still, it is a kind of coordinate system based on the LDS temple. I'm guessing other cities in Utah copied the Salt Lake City system. Pfly (talk) 05:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Movie poster on airplane
Would a rolled-up movie poster (30" x 40") be acceptable as hand luggage on an airplane? 3DES / decltype (talk) 08:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Depends on the airline and the class one is flying.86.209.24.42 (talk) 09:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)DT


 * Well, I was hoping it would somehow be exempt from the luggage restrictions because it is basically just a piece of paper. For example, it is no problem to bring a newspaper or magazine along with your regular luggage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Triple-DES (talk • contribs) 12:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * At the very least, get a poster tube to put it in, to help protect it in case they insist on gate-checking it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * They may also insist that you shove it in the overhead bin. You will need a tube. (Word of warning. If you get a FedEX or USPS tube, (or similar) make sure you cover over all the FedEx or USPS logos. If you have to let it out of your sight, you don't want anyone thinking it's a misplaced piece of mail.) APL (talk) 13:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Best bet is to go to an office supply store and get a plain one. Nowadays they might insist on it being checked simply due to paranoia - there could be a weapon in it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:54, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, we're playing guessing games here, and the first respondent was onto it: Call the airline and ask about it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have carried this sort of thing (maps) as hand luggage several times in planes. It does fit in the overhead locker! You may have more trouble with the discount airlines that may enforce the rules strictly and charge you extra for a fragile baggage. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still best to call first and not make any assumptions. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The catch is that the rules as enforced in practice may not be as strict as the written ones, and if you ask, they'll read you the written rules. The only way to know what they will enforce in practice is to talk to people who have attempted the same thing. Of course, your other option is to send the thing by mail (or UPS, etc.). --Anonymous, 03:16 UTC, April 25, 2009.
 * I find budget airlines enforce such rules much stricter than regular airlines. You may well struggle to take a poster on a budget airline, but I would expect a full service airline to accommodate you as long as it will fit in the overhead locker, which I expect it would. --Tango (talk) 12:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oddly enough, you may want to try the science desk (or maybe humanities) if not satisfied with answers here. I expect a number of scientists would have had to carry posters for conferences. This site does mention the option of having your poster printed locally to avoid problems but this site mentions airlines generally allow posters . I would agree with Baseball Bugs here. Don't presume airlines are not going to have established rules for this sort of thing which do allow posters. If you get a response in the affirmative, you might want to take down the details of what the person said and maybe ask for a contact. That way if you do have problems you can ask them to check with the people who told you it's okay. It's quite common that even if something is allowed the people at the front line don't know the rules very well either so getting to know the official line is never a bad thing. If you get a response in the negative, you can still choose to risk it if you wish, it's not as if the airline is going to know you asked... Nil Einne (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks to everyone who responded. I went out and got myself a poster tube just in case, but when I was checking in they told me I could bring it on the plane. 3DES / decltype (talk) 13:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

What is this?
What is the name in English of the product which appears on this photograph? It appears to be a tool which is used to burn the sugar on desserts. Thanks to anyone who can help. --Leptictidium (mt) 09:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems to be a rectangular electric carameliser (most of them are round). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The photo looks like a charcoal lighter, used to ignite charcoal for grilling. It has a Calrad resistance heating unit. "Burning the sugar on desserts" sounds like Creme brulee. A propane torch is normally used for the latter. Edison (talk) 04:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Regardless, it's a caramelizer. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 22:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Romantic acronyms
I have to make a humourous speech at a 60th wedding. It would be fun to show that even before texts there were lovers' acronyms. e.g SWALK (sealed with a loving kiss). Many quite explicit! Contributions requested.86.209.24.42 (talk) 09:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)DT


 * You can find some examples in our article on WWII Postal Acronyms. Warofdreams talk 10:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's a place with a list of them from WWII (apparently) http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1837480 Examples include: 194.221.133.226 (talk) 10:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * CHINA: Come Home I Need Affection
 * HOLLAND: Hope Our Love Lasts And Never Dies
 * ITALY: I Trust And Love You
 * WALES: With A Love Eternal Sweetheart
 * MALAYA: My Ardent Lips Await Your Arrival
 * MEXICO CITY: May Every X I Can Offer Carry Itself To You
 * BURMA: Be Undressed Ready My Angel
 * NORWICH: Nickers Off Ready When I Come Home


 * Yes. I know 'knickers' is spelt with a 'k', I was at Oxford, it was one of the first things they taught us.  meltBanana  12:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

So what was the first thing....? Thanks for the contribution86.209.24.42 (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)DT


 * This reminds me of a bit from Are You Being Served?:


 * "I once had a Romance Calendar with different instructions for each day of the week:"


 * "Monday is for Meeting."


 * "Tuesday for Talking."


 * "Wednesday for Wooing."


 * "Thursday for Touching."


 * "Friday ... for some reason had been torn out." StuRat (talk) 22:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But...but...what about Saturday and Sunday? Sounds like some kind of a wild party! SteveBaker (talk) 00:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe written by someone who thought weekdays were romantic, and weekends were for spending time with the kids. :) --  JackofOz (talk) 23:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's one for where I live : WIDNES : 'When In Doubt Nail 'Em Shitless'. Sorry, not very romantic, but Widnes is not a very romantic place.--KageTora (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 04:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How about "Senseless"? —Tamfang (talk) 05:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism Reversion
If you are trying to revert vandalism, are you supposed to inform the vandal and how? Simeon24601 (talk) 14:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't have to inform them but if you want, you can use a warning template. That way, if they made a mistake in good faith, they can learn or if they intentionally vandalised, an admin can use the warning as fuel for a block. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ThanksSimeon24601 (talk) 14:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Next time you might like to ask on WP:HD for wikipedia specific questions
 * It also helps escalate toward someone blocking them from editing, so they can't plead that "They had no idea they were doing something wrong." It is annoying when one is on vandalism patrol to see someone reverting vandalism without warning the vandal. Edison (talk) 21:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Wild chickens.
Silly question I know but curious to know the answer - is there anywhere on earth that chickens run wild - or are they all bred and killed in captivity for egg and meat production? 92.20.105.175 (talk) 18:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the Wikipedia article on chickens, there are relatives to the chicken (the Red Junglefowl and Grey Junglefowl that are wild. Other wild relatives include the Sri Lanka Junglefowl.--droptone (talk) 18:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Feral chickens also exist. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 18:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Key West, Florida is famous for its feral chickens. Our article contains a picture of such feral chickens.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  21:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Feral chickens I have known were very much like normal chickens, except that when day was done, instead of going into the chicken house from the fenced chicken yard, they would fly over the fence and roost in tall trees. In other words, they were stronger and better able to fly. Edison (talk) 04:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Kauai is another place known for having many feral chickens. Pfly (talk) 05:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Anyone fancy working on a Feral chickens article? It sounds like something that WP should have... --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 05:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * So, I went and created a (very) basic stub. Feel free to make it better. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 06:25, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair Oaks, California is famous for the feral chickens which run around throughout the town. There is an annual Chicken Festival where fried chicken is served (probably not the feral ones).  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not uncommon to have free roaming chickens in Malaysian villages (kampung). The term 'kampung chicken' has probably tradionally referred to these chickens but nowadays it commonly refers to birds either breed im a semi free range environment or birds that may be grown fairly intensively but are similar in breed to the tradional kampung chicken. Since Red Junglefowl are native to Malaysia, it's likely some of these are the result of further crossing with non domesticated varieties. See Malaysian cuisine,, for some details Nil Einne (talk) 08:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Trivia Question
Can anyone please find the first concert that Oakland A's player Travis Buck attended, I really need the answer. Thanks 169.229.207.10 (talk) 19:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Define "first concert". Like, maybe his parents took him to a Barney show when he was 2 years old or something. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * IDK, it's like a trivia question at my school right now, idk what they mean.169.229.75.140 (talk) 23:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it have anything to do with his entrance music being a Motorhead song? Otherwise this is the kind of question that the question-writer probably saw randomly in a random interview that no one else will ever find. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Ease of Manufacturing Meth from Scratch
It is often said that converting pseudoephedrine or ephedrine into methamphetamine is an easy process and can be done by anyone with a basic command in chemistry. Indeed, recipes for this process do exist online.

However, suppose one does not have a recipe. How difficult would it be for someone to convert pseudoephedrine or ephedrine into methamphetamine supposing that they only have access to the chemical structure of the compounds and must derive the recipe from scratch if a) they have a BS in Chemistry b) a MS in Chemistry and finally c) a PhD in Organic Chemistry?

Hustle (talk) 21:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia does not aid and abet illegal activity. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? The question is "in the hypothetical situation where a recipe for meth was unavailable, how hard would it be to come up with one for various people?".  Unless the questioner is a criminal who likes a challenge, this hardly looks like a request for help with a crime.  --Sean 22:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Then the answer is: www.google.com Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:05, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That doesn't answer his question either! APL (talk) 23:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He's already said recipes are available online. He wants to know how easy it is to come up with a recipe from first principles. Unfortunately, I do not have a BS in Chemistry, so I can't help... --Tango (talk) 00:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He's asking how to make an illegal drug. Sorry, this ain't the place. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 00:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you actually read the question? He's not asking how to make the drugs, he asking how easy it would be to make the drugs. Tango (talk) 01:06, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)He/she is clearly not asking for a recipe or a "how to" guide, but "how easy would it be". It's entirely different. I can't ask how to make a nuclear weapon, but it seems reasonable to ask how easy it is to create one if you have a working nuclear power plant. 86.8.176.85 (talk) 01:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Or more specifically, could someone with a PhD in physics figure out a nuclear weapons design without looking at any classified information. But anyway, yeah, Baseball Bugs, way to strike out on getting the question three times in a row. You're out! --98.217.14.211 (talk) 03:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Where can I buy a kilo of "scratch?" Edison (talk) 04:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My cat scratches the furniture all the time - you can borrow her! --Tango (talk) 12:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The process of taking a proposed chemical structure and figuring out how to make it from available precursors is called retrosynthesis. Proposing a retrosynthetic scheme for compounds is a normal and significant part of any decent degree in organic synthesis. The trick is to be familiar enough with potential reactions to be able to "see" how one would go about putting the molecule together. However, for a very complex molecule, designing, testing, and completing such a scheme can take a long time. For example, the total synthesis of taxol took over twelve years. A simpler molecule like meth would likely take less time, although being limited to household materials (an illegal drug lab can't really order from a scientific supply house) would likely make it take longer. -- 75.42.235.205 (talk) 20:07, 25 April 2009 (UTC)