Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 April 7

= April 7 =

Extrapolating Free Speech To Allow Political Donations
How did it ever happen that our greatest legal minds could stretch their imagination so much as to prove to us all that the right to free speech includes the right to give money to political candidates? Such a practice obviously would, and obviously has, led to corruption in our governments at all levels.

Can my question be answered in less words there are in the First Amendment?

Thanks for any info.

Xesandohs (talk) 00:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * See burden of proof. --Sean 01:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As long as there are political campaigns, there will be political fundraising. Or would you rather that only the rich run for office? Phil_burnstein (talk) 03:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not allowing limits to be placed on donations (because they're considered "free speech") that causes the problem. We can end up with a few people giving most of the money to a campaign, which results in the "representatives" only representing those people.  This undermines democracy.  Incidentally, another option is to have public funding of elections, either with taxpayer money or by requiring TV and radio stations to air free ads and debates for all candidates (if they want their broadcast licenses renewed).  StuRat (talk) 06:07, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

This looks to me more like an attempt to start a debate than a Reference Desk question. Much as I appreciate the irony of attempting to stop a discussion about free speech, I don't think this is the place for it. --Anonymous, 04:55 UTC, April 7, 2009.

By defining the question as "free speech," the answer is given. However, define it as "freedom of expression" and the right to express oneself through donations becomes more meaningful. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * See Buckley v. Valeo, a US Supreme Court case that ruled spending money to influence elections is a form of constitutionally protected free speech (though the later Davis v. Federal Election Commission also had something to say on the matter). The full judgment of Buckley v. Valeo is here.  I think that's the factual answer to the question. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 16:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

english language
which of the following statements are correct. 1. Unlike trains, terrorists don't come with an announcement(can we make use of two negative's in a single sentence?) 2. Like trains, terrorists don't come with an announcement —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nag183raj (talk • contribs) 04:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * They're both correct; they just mean two different things:
 * Trains come with an announcement; terrorists do not.
 * Trains and terrorists come with no announcement.
 * In general, each negative in English negates the premise: "unalike" means "different", "not unalike" means "similar", "insignificantly not unalike" means "different", etc. (though stacking negations tends to make sentences difficult to parse and should be avoided in most cases). –  7 4   04:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Not quite correct. See litotes.  There are shades of meaning in these terms, for example "not unalike" is not identical to "similar".  Language is not a set of binary conditions which strictly obey boolean operations; as such different word choices do carry subtle differences in tone and meaning which strict logic would not allow... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  06:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * They certainly aren't identical (you'd be hard-pressed to find any two words that are). But, as an answer to the question "can we make use of two negative's in a single sentence?", I believe broad strokes are sufficient. Besides, even though my answer was technically incomplete it was not incorrect. –  7 4   11:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as English grammar is concerned they are both correct and mean two different things, both of which I believe are incorrect. Both trains and terrorists may or may not come with an announcement. Dmcq (talk) 09:38, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a double negative - the two negatives refer to completely different things. The first negative ("Unlike") says that terrorists are not like trains - the second one says that terrorists don't come with an announcement.  You can't cancel them without changing the meaning.  It's not like "My dog doesn't have no legs" which you can simplify to "My dog has legs".   Hence there is nothing wrong with the first version.  If you are hell bent on getting rid of a negative, at best you'd have to say something like "Unlike terrorists, trains come with announcements"...but even that has changed the subject of the sentence from something about terrorists to something about trains.  (Although it works better as a joke, IMHO) SteveBaker (talk) 21:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Just as a matter of interest, when did the word unalike creep into the language? That was a new one to me. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * According to Google, it was included in a book published in 1755. That doesn't, however, mean it has been in common usage since (or ever!); Google helpfully suggests the correction "unlike". You (and potentially the OP) might receive a better answer at the Language desk. –  7 4   21:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The OED has unalike both as an adjective (with four quotes, all from the twentieth century) and as an adverb (with a single quote from Thomas Gataker in 1616). Algebraist 22:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh my
Has the world really come to this? Am I the only one that thinks the anchors completely ignoring not only her fainting but a part of the set falling on her is horrible? Sure, they're live on the air but come on, I'm sure they could cut to break or something. It absolutely disgusts me. 75.169.196.140 (talk) 04:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * To answer your question: No, you are probably not alone. —Tamfang (talk) 05:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt you're alone, but it is considered a very good quality in a newsreader to be able to continue no matter what is going on around them. There are a number of bloopers around of when that's gone too far, including an anchor vomiting, wetting pants, animals being very inappropriate, being hit on the head, etc. Steewi (talk) 06:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There was one where a bird crapped in the anchor's mouth while he was looking up at some trees.--KageTora (talk) 07:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw that in a lol site. The reporter was also talking about the bird population in that particular area. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 07:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I see no problem with what happened. Have you not seen anybody faint before? They'll have other people around the place who can help her. There's no need for the world to stop because someone faints and some props fall down on her. The props would be pretty light and what what would you expecting them to do after rushing up to her? She'd be best left lying down to revive and I'm sure they've some first-aiders around to have a look if there's anything worse. Any waving of hands and rushing around showing concern would be due to either cosmetic, ignorance, or headless chicken reasons. Dmcq (talk) 09:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll bet it would make more sense if it wasn't cut right after the set fell. I'll bet either A) people from offstage came rushing on to check on her, or B) Something more ridiculous happened indicating this was a parody.
 * If it's real, I'll bet there was someone talking into the guy's ear-piece saying something like : "Keep going, we'll take care of this.". APL (talk) 22:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I enjoyed one clip of a newsreader continuing to read without a falter as a fly landed on his lip and walked into his mouth, never to be seen again. Edison (talk) 22:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Sue Lawley exhibited famous sang froid when a team of lesbians invaded the TV studio and interrupted her news anchoring. (They were protesting Section 28, a piece of anti-gay legislation.) She said, "We have been rather invaded by some people who we hope to be removing very shortly." Full story here. YouTube clip here -- her eyes do not even flicker as the shouted protests can be heard off camera. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Pack of dogs and cat
A long time ago, I saw a picture (not in Wikipedia) of large pack of dogs (perhaps the German Shepherds) standing in a row and a cat passing by next to them without any fear and all the dogs were watching the cat. The dogs were trained by US military and the picture was to show how obedient and restraint the dogs were who won't do anything without the order of soldiers. Can anybody point me to that picture. That picture is not in Wikipedia perhaps. Thanks - DSachan (talk) 09:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Go to http://images.google.com. Type in German Shepherd Cat.  Hit Enter.  Dismas |(talk) 09:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, well thanks. I googled before only with dogs and cat. But now this gives me the right picture. :) - DSachan (talk) 09:17, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What I want to know is, how the heck did they train the cat? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If the cat never had any negative experiences with dogs, or had been in a household with friendly dogs, he may have never had any reason to feel uncomfortable. --Jayron32. talk . contribs  12:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Some cats taunt dogs they know can't reach them. (e.g. walk along the top of a fence just out of reach.)  OR I've had to patch up more scratched dog noses than cats that got bitten.  Dogs that aren't trained to go after cats often try to befriend them.  Cats will try to dominate and unless the dog is defense mode it will let them.  Guess who ends up in the comfy spot that used to be the dog's? ;-)  Feral dogs in packs are another matter, though. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 15:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI, I believe this picture was made at New Skete. --Sean 15:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Push-ups
The corresponding article is lacking some information. What is a good number of push-ups, if I want to be on the top 5%? How many push-ups Marines and the like must do? What is a good complement for push-ups? If I combine push-ups with pull-ups, what muscle am I NOT working? --217.12.16.53 (talk) 09:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The top 5% of what? Also, please be aware that we can't give medical advice here. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's no medical advice. It's a question about fitness. Top 5% of the people who do push-ups. --217.12.16.53 (talk) 11:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I mean, the top 5% by what criterion? Muscle mass? Body mass? Duration of continual push-ups? And note that 'the top 5% of those who dio push-ups' is a different thing to 'the top 5% of the population'. In any case, I don't think that sufficiently precise data exist for you to be able to determine this. AlexTiefling (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Here are the charts for the Army PT test. You need to score a 270, if I remember correctly, to get into Special forces. So if you want to be in the 0.4% percentile, you'd need to score enough push-ups in 2 minutes to allow for a 270 score on the PT test. There is also, the One-Hundred Push-Ups test. What do you mean a good complement? You mean in terms of muscle groups? If so, it isn't as though your body has muscles that are complementary. If you mean another exercise that requires little material and works a decent number of different muscle groups, then squats would be it.--droptone (talk) 11:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you mean Press-ups? Edison (talk) 22:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the same thing, n'est-ce pas? Just transatlantic variation. Algebraist 00:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers so far. I meant a good complement in terms of what muscle I was not training. Doing Squat (exercise) is also a nice tip.--217.12.16.53 (talk) 09:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

PHD on a subject
I'm a student of B.sc on chemistry honours. I'm interested in Quantum mechanics. I want Ph.D on this subject after my graduation. Without M.sc can I doing Ph.D ? It is possible ? If possible how I go ahed ?Supriyochowdhury (talk) 13:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You certainly need a Masters degree before you do your PhD. But you can choose programs which offer joint Masters and PhD program which lasts about 5-6 years or more depending on the subject. - DSachan (talk) 14:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) Have a look at PhD. You could always become rich and famous and try to get an honorary degree.  There are companies that call themselves "university" that sell degrees.  Unless you are interested in a rather expensive piece of wall art, stay away from those.  You may encounter that - even with a Masters - finding a PhD program in quantum physics that has openings is a rather rare thing.  Highly competitive doesn't even begin to describe the field.  76.97.245.5 (talk) 14:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Without the knowledge and skills gained through an MSc degree in an appropriate subject, you probably wouldn't be in a position to take a PhD, even if a course would take you on. My (strictly non-professional) advice to you is to be patient, do an MSc, and get a research job in the field. This is difficult, but still nothing like as difficult as applying for a PhD placement on spec. A good MSc topic for the career path you have outlined would be something like physical chemistry or quantum physics. Quantum mechanics is a pretty specialised field, even within atomic physics, so a good theoretical grounding will be essential. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * These statements do not describe the American degree system so you may want to consider studying internationally. In an American course, you would probably be expected to get a good result on a GRE subject test in your chosen field which, of course, requires study of the subject (like a B.S. degree might offer). Once accepted into a PhD program, obtaining a Master's first may, in fact, be discouraged as it may require additional classes and papers - and takes away time available for conducting the research required for the PhD. The edges of the fields of physics and chemistry overlap as much as the fields of biology and chemistry (biochemistry). Perhaps instead of pure quantum mechanics, you would be interested in some branch of theoretical chemistry such as quantum chemistry, computational chemistry, mathematical chemistry, statistical mechanics. All of these require mathematical and computer skill as well as a chemistry and physics knowledge. Rmhermen (talk) 15:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As already mentioned, a masters degree is NOT a prerequisite in the American system; in fact it is most common to enter a PhD program directly from a bachelors program. If you intend to get the PhD, there is usually no need to enter a seperate master's degree program first.  At some schools, they just give you a master's certificate in your second or third year of your PhD program; I have several friends who got theirs in the mail without even realizing they earned it along the way.  In other cases, some schools offer what is sometimes derisively known as the "Consolation Masters Degree".  It is usually awarded to PhD candidates whose doctoral research doesn't pan out; either the research leads to a dead end, and there isn't any publishable data from it, or often more likely they get "beaten" to publishing the information.  I had a teacher in High School who got his master's degree in History this way; 1 month before his dissertation, someone published a book that basically usurped all his ideas.  No novel research = No PhD.  He got the 5-year Master's instead, and such is the way it goes.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  16:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In many American universities it is perfectly possible to enter a doctoral program without obtaining a Masters degree first. This allows the student to obtain the doctorate somewhat faster and at slightly less cost. The downside is that if some problem arises toward the end of the program - typically with one's doctoral thesis - you have obtained nothing. So, let us say, it becomes necessary for you to rewrite - or even rethink and rewrite - your thesis, you'd only have the bachelor's degree, not a master's, with which to get a job while reworking the thesis. Essentially, going straight for the Ph.D. is a gamble; getting the Master's first may be construed as insurance in this context. ("A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.")
 * Those are the options, but I wouldn't presume to advise you as to what to do. B00P (talk) 00:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In Britain, I know that some universities (if they think you show promise) are willing to accept you provided you complete relevant lecture courses from their masters or undergraduate courses whilst enrolled as a research student. I'd say that you should contact the admissions department of any university you are interested in, they are generally very helpful at explaining exactly what they require: it's not in their interest to mess you about.  163.1.176.253 (talk) 10:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

animal trivia
a sea creature found all over the world considered royal by blood. it's also edible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.255.218.250 (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Almost definitely Squid. Royal blood is apparently 'blue' (not really) and a squid's ink is 'blue' (indigo?). 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * My first thought was King crab. --Onorem♠Dil 15:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Horseshoe crab, I'd say, actually. They literally have blue blood. I remember reading that in National Geographic, I believe... --Alinnisawest,Dalek Empress ( extermination requests here ) 15:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Haustellum brandaris, from which Tyrian purple was made? Adam Bishop (talk) 16:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

How about emperor seahorse? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 18:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Goats in Paris
What are the relevant ordinances on keeping goats in residential areas of Paris? Thanks. --Sean 16:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Without wishing to give legal advice, they seem to get away with it in the Menagerie at the Jardin des Plantes. Certes (talk) 21:20, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

News pictures aggregator
I used to go on a site that shows good quality images of news events. It gathered pictures from different agencies, Reuters, EPA, Getty news, etc. I lost the address. Anyone knows which site I'm talking about? Alternatively I'm looking for news pictures in high quality. Thank you. 190.220.104.35 (talk) 16:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Big Picture has some high quality news photos. Tomdobb (talk) 17:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is probably not exactly what you are asking for, but may be appropriate. You can find millions of Time Magazine photos through Google Image search. Just enter your search term(s) along with the term source:time as in this example . --JoeTalkWork 01:16, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Story Ending?
So a friend of mine gave a speech in Writing & Public Speaking class today. It was a great story, but he left it hanging intentionally (for suspense. He thinks it's funny.)  My creative juices aren't flowing, so I'll give the jist of the story:

A man lives in a fictional town in a fictional city. He makes pots. He learned the craft from his father, who learned it from his father and so on. Every day he makes five pots, sells them, and uses the $ to buy food. But eventually everyone has a pot. What does he do now?

Any brilliant endings? Just curious...76.120.179.184 (talk) 18:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This type of question doesn't really belong on the reference desk. Tomdobb (talk) 18:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh that is so disrespectful to the masters of the universe approach to re-invigorating a stagnant economy. He obviously has to persuade his clients to re-cycle their old pots and make them feel guilty and anti-social and off-green if they choose not to do so. He, of course, will give them a 5% discount off the price of their new pots in return for surendering their old pots for re-cycling BUT the cost of raw materials and green processing and disposal has unfortunately lifted the new-pots-price by 15%. Result? Everybody (plus the environment) wins. 92.21.155.155 (talk) 19:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Stories without an ending are not always designed to annoy you. Sometimes, including in this case I would expect, they are designed to make you think about the resolution. As 92.21.155.155 pointed out there are real world parallels here. Of course there are plenty of possible endings to the story, some nice and some not so nice. But coming up with what you think is a good ending is the point. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * For instance, you might think about how K.C. Gillette got rich. In particular, the second paragraph under Biography. For a related subject, see also Ponzi scheme. --Anonymous, 20:50 UTC, April 7, 2009,.


 * Obviously, this is a parable designed to make you think about surviving at business even in a saturated market.
 * It's clear to me that our hero needs to convince people to replace their old pots. Perhaps by inventing a new style of pot that is better in some real or perceived way. Or perhaps by expanding his territory, if people from neighboring towns need pots.
 * (Alternate answer : Pot lids. Everyone in town will want one. )
 * Personally, it seems contrived. Three generations of pot makers in a small town and only just now the market saturated? APL (talk) 20:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

SteveBaker (talk) 21:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) At 3am he takes a baseball bat and goes visiting the kitchens of people of the village.  Mysteriously, pots around the village are found to have spontaneously disintigrated during the night.  The demand for replacement pots goes through the roof.
 * 2) He continues to make the same pots as before but puts up a large sign saying "Our pots are now carbon-neutral!" - everyone is guilt-tripped into buying new pots.
 * 3) He continues to make the same pots but puts a little purple dot on each one.  Then he merely has to find a local movie star to say that pots without purple dots are un-cool and everyone will switch.
 * 4) Pots don't last forever.  They get broken.  Since pots are presumably a necessity and he has a monopoly on the market, as his sales volume goes down, he may simply increase his prices proportionately.  If he sells only 1% of the pots he once did - but makes 100x the profit on each one (noting that his manufacturing costs have now decreased) - what does he care?
 * 5) He can invest in technology to adapt the product to make it better.  Consumers will see the advantage of the new pot design and replace their old ones in great numbers.
 * 6) He can do research to find new uses for pots, thereby increasing the number each person will need.
 * 7) If you put a certain part of the male anatomy into one of these new purple pots, it will get bigger! (These claims have not been tested by the FDA and make no claim to diagnose, treat or cure any medical condition)
 * 8) Instead of selling pots, he leverages his brand image to make pot-themed novelty items - hats with pots embroidered on the front - "Potty" action figures for the kids.
 * 9) Showing the amazing sales figures from previous years, he stops making pots and instead sell franchises.


 * @ SteveBaker. I think that is the entire content of my MBA marketing courses summed up in 9 points. Nice work, that! // BL \\ (talk) 22:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This is an old story. He invents tins and can openers and cardboard boxes with plastic bags inside which people buy and throw away instead of storing stuff in pots and we get the modern world. Then he invents recycling and being green. Oh and saving is anti-social it'll stop the economy growing. Dmcq (talk) 22:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * (for ceramic pots only) He makes a new kind of pot that is quite suitable for Molotov cocktails and sells them to local extortionists. Coincitentally, he makes a new fireproof building material, since there seems to be a sudden demand for it. -Arch dude (talk) 23:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Being a clever lad, he opens both doors, and after the Tiger eats the Lady, our hero marries the princess. B00P (talk) 00:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There's the "fashion" angle, where you change the line of pots every year and advertise to convince everyone they need the latest fashion and that their current pots are "so last year".


 * Then there's planned obsolescence, where you design the pots to fail, so you can then sell replacements. The most blatant case of planned obsolescence is toothbrushes designed to have half the bristles dissolve after a few months, ostensibly as a reminder to replace "that old, germy toothbrush".  Of course, they don't mention that a normal toothbrush could last for decades, and you could just dip it in bleach periodically when you get paranoid about germs.


 * You could also make the pots either entirely disposable or have a disposable liner, so people can "avoid the hassle of cleaning them". StuRat (talk) 05:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You get the local press to run a story on how the government is going to require a high tax to be paid on all old pots, or make it patriotic to melt your current pot so that you can buy American. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The question didn't say whether it was in Iraq or not... --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He sells pots to neighboring villages as well. And be may diversify into teapots, roof tiles, and mugs. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that he has a finite demand for a product that generally doesnt need to be replaced. If this artisan is only making enough money from selling the pots for food, he is going to be in big trouble once the demand runs out. So he needs to either expand his production to another town/group of people or diversify. Maybe people also need other pieces of furniture that match the pot, like cups or bowls or plates. If he has a surplus of pots, he can start selling these products as a set. He can start selling "limited edition" pots as status symbols. Pots don't really lend themselves to planned obsolescence or any sort of loss leader business model unless they are very, very poorly constructed and who wants a pot that falls apart in a year? Livewireo (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, if he has the monopoly, as it seems from the wording of the OP's question, it would make perfect sense to make pots that fall apart after a year or so, so they need to be replaced or repaired. He would have an endless supply of customers, then.--KageTora (talk) 01:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * And, with my suggestion of disposable pots or liners (the ultimate planned obsolescence, a product which only works once) this can be sold as being an advantage. The trick is to rip people off without them knowing you are doing it, the environment be damned. StuRat (talk) 14:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Eventually, people will catch on to the price and environmental problems of single-use pots. Then it's time to make a big deal about your brand-new "Reusable Pots". These can be more expensive and lower quality than the original pots because they will still seem superior compared to the disposable ones that people are currently using. APL (talk) 23:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Another approach to planned obsolescence, more in line with the toothbrush example, would be to claim that some type of toxic chemical builds up on pots after a while, and use that to justify pots made to fail after a certain number of uses. You could also use that justification to lease pots instead of selling them, so those customers don't have to deal with those "nasty old, polluted pots".  StuRat (talk) 14:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * ...whilst recycling the old pots by selling them to people in another town or village....I think we are developing a working business model here.--KageTora (talk) 20:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ...and selling the pots that are now being given up by the people in that other town as "antiques" which you can now sell to the elite clients in your own village. SteveBaker (talk) 11:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The obvious answer involves marijuana. (Pot? Eh? Get it? Never mind...) -- Guroadrunner (talk) 05:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

seth bullock's family history
my dad and i are trying to find out if it might be possible that we are related to the famous seth bullock. what i can't seem to find out is any information about his father or his father's family. i have relatives, henry bullock born 9-29-1825 who had a child leonard bullock born 1-13-1852. according to my records he was born in Elba, N.Y. genesee co. and i though i read where some of seth bullock's family came from new york. can you help me in my search. it would mean a lot to my dad and i would love to find some information for him. thank you for taking the time to read this, and help me with any information or suggestions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullockrelative? (talk • contribs) 23:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The Seth Bullock article says his father was British, his mother was Scottish, and he came from Canada, so it's unlikely. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)