Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 August 16

= August 16 =

Jonathan Ross
He has got to be one of the funniest human beings on the planet. What I was wondering though, is whether his way of speaking is a regional accent or specific to him. He pronounces all his r's and l's as w's and it just adds to his hilarity but is it just him? The article on him here says he's from London but he could have gotten it from his family background or maybe it has to do with the neighborhood he grew up in? I guess I'm bascially asking for some of the English in the know to comment.--68.160.248.210 (talk) 01:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No (says this native Brit), in Ross's case it's not (just) a regional accent, though in less marked form it is a feature of some East-end Londoners' accents (see as a good written example the Viz cartoon character, "Cockney Wanker"). It's a not uncommon minor speech impediment (if you can call it that, and it has a specific name I've forgotten - anyone?), in which the speaker learned as a child to make the sound of "r" (and sometimes "l") not by using the tongue in conjunction with the hard palate, but instead by pressing the lower lip to the upper incisors - depending on one's exact physiognomy, this can also bring the upper lip into play, accentuating the "w-ness" in the sound. I myself exhibit it (only on "r") less markedly than Ross (you might not notice it in conversation with me unless I drew your attention to it, or ask me to "roll an r" in Scottish fashion, which I find physically impossible). Another prominent "sufferer" was the writer and humorist Frank Muir, who you should be able to find on sites like YouTube quite easily. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 02:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Rhotacism. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 04:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the bunny. Ta vewwy much. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 22:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Aside from the speech impediment he is a commonly cited example of Estuary English  meltBanana  00:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

If it is a regional thing, Elmer Fudd has a strange accent for a Brit. Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit! --Dweller (talk) 14:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * He is not at all funny, just a jerk. He gets paid several million pounds a year for a job that hundreds of thousands of other UK people could do just as well. I have to pay for his salary out of my compulsory tv licence fee - thats not funny at all. 78.146.232.198 (talk) 10:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Close on...
When people say "sth "close on" this day", for example "Nomination close on 30 June 2008", does that generally mean nominations must be sent not later than 29 June? Or 30 June? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.0.10.104 (talk) 06:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I would say it means that nominations must be received by close of business on 30 June. If a nom arrives later than this, it would be disregarded.  It's the sender's job to make sure they send it in sufficient time to get there by then.  --  JackofOz (talk) 07:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. What if 30 June is Saturday or Sunday? And nominations come via email? Does it mean midnight? Or the Friday before that? 117.0.51.36 (talk) 11:38, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is unlikely that there is any law governing the meaning of the phrase. Therefore, the phrase is a rough description, and you will need to read the bylaws of the specific organization to determine the precise day and time that is the last possible acceptable entry. In some cases the bylaws will be ambiguous, and some entity within the organization (such as an elections comittee or a board of directors) will need to rule for each specific election. -Arch dude (talk) 12:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. It's certainly important to ask specific organizations. I wan wondering only about the general meaning people would get from such a phrase. 117.0.51.36 (talk) 12:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * When inviting tenders for a large government department, it was always my standard practice to stipulate the date and time beyond which no further tender documents would be accepted - not even by one minute. And I stuck to that rigorously, often to the real annoyance of a courier. And I would issue the return envelope to bidders who had previously indicated their wish to be invited to submit a tender - and that envelope was marked by me or my staff with a code that would identify the package as a tender intended for delivery by that date and time. If the envelope was not sufficiently large, I would permit it to be used as a label on a larger envelope/parcel on the strict understanding that if that supplier supplied larger envelope bore any marks that externally identified the sender, it would peremptorily be rejected - unopened - but only after the closing time for receipt of tenders, thus denying a second opportunity to submit a correctly submitted tender. And I would expect similar levels of control to apply to any formal application or nominational procedure. Think Caesar's wife.92.23.193.35 (talk) 18:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Car model variations
Why do some car companies change the design of their models for each country? For example the American Volkswagen Golf looks different to the European version. Why? Chevymontecarlo (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There may be some local laws to be obeyed (e.g. the fender law in the US in the 70s). Otherwise it's probably just the martketing folks. --Phil Holmes (talk) 09:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * But one has to presume that the "marketing folks" have their reasons. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 12:36, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * i presume they presume so. But the ones I've met generally can't explain them too well :-) --Phil Holmes (talk) 20:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If the chaps off Top Gear are to be believed, the roads make a difference. Lots of narrow, winding roads in Europe...not so many in America. So, smaller cars for Europe. Or something. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably they are responding to different expectations of the market. North Americans are infamously influenced by the number of cupholders when buying a car, as various European manufacturers anecdotally found to their surprise. North Americans also expect automatic transmission as standard, and expect the engines of their cars to be generally more powerful than their European counterparts. Air conditioning is also more likely to be standard rather than a luxury option. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The profit on selling OEM-approved spare parts is more than on a new car, an apparently fresh new car model is more attractive to buyers than a model that is known to have been sold for some time in a foreign country, and private imports of foreign equivalent cars may erode the local markets. Those are 3 reasons for a national subsidiary of a car company to differentiate the cars it sells. The changes may be no more than cosmetic such as a name on a badge. This also helps keep customers unaware of whether the car is imported whole, imported and assembled locally or manufactured locally. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

A classic case of a car model that should have been revised was when Chevrolet marketed their "Nova" model in Latin America. "Nova" in Spanish says "Doesn't go!". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a popular myth that is better as a cute story than as an object lesson. See Snopes.  Worth noting is that the Mexican state oil company Pemex sold gasoline under the 'Nova' name until the use of leaded fuel was abandoned.  An automobile name that only works if it isn't translated for the English-language market might be Citroën: who wants to buy a Lemon?  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:55, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Citroën is the name of a company, not a brand - we don't see Volkswagen calling themselves The People's Car in English speaking counties. Oh and the French for lemon is "citron". -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 11:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The source of Citroën's founder's name is a seller of lemons. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who put forward some answers to my question. It's been something that I've wondered about for ages. Chevymontecarlo (talk) 16:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

George Lorin Miller first house destroyed by fires
My great grandfather, Thomas Jefferson O'Daniels worked for Dr. Miller. The first fire took the lives of my great grandmother and an uncle. Mr. O'Daniels continued working for Dr. Miller. The second fire claimed the lives of the second Mrs. O'Daniels and 5 of their children. The second fire was August 9, 1906. I am searching for the obituaries of the family members killed in the first fire. References: The Omaha Daily Bee, The Evening World Herald. Thank You, Hope I can get some help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.252.28.52 (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you looked at the resources on Ancestry.com? There seems to be quite a few references to this name, having just done a quick search. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have the names of the people whose obituaries you're trying to locate? Without that, we have to search for the two names you mentioned, and work tangentially from there to locate obituaries for names that we don't know - a daunting task.  Some things to consider during your search:  The Omaha Bee was merged with the Omaha Daily Herald, which was sold to the Omaha World-Herald.   The Evening World Herald also ended up belonging to Omaha World-Herald.  This page lets you search Omaha World-Herald obituaries by name, although I'm not sure how far back their records go.  Searching for "Thomas O'Daniels" returned no hits, but perhaps he moved out of Omaha before he died.  Try entering the names of his wives and see if their records are there.  If not, then you may consider contacting the Omaha World-Herald to ask if they can put you in touch with local historians who may have copies of newspapers from that period.  According to our article George L. Miller, the location of the building consumed in the first fire was at what is now 75th and Oakwood Streets in Ralston, a West Omaha suburb.  If you learn what the street names were then, you may be able to search for records based on that information.  152.16.16.75 (talk) 23:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

hamburger
why are hamburgers often labeled as fast food items? i don't see a single unhealthy constituent in the making of that so called "fast food". pizzas and french fries and chips, they all have been found to contain high amounts of salt and fat, but what about hamburgers?

note: there's also a side question. once i was watching a documentary on chinese fast food, and the host presented some "wanton" noodles or somethings like that, describing them as "healthy" fast food. is it true? is chinese fast food, consisting of mainly egg rolls and noodles, healthy?


 * It's all down to how they are made. Burgers often use very low quality meat because it is concealed with other stuff (onion, spices, the bun, mustard and so on), kind of like why sausages are so unhealthy. In theory you can easily make your own burgers at home with good meat and they are perfectly healthy. The other issue is that they are friend, which automatically adds a lot of fat. As for Chinese food, same thing. Noodles are in theory a very simple and healthy food, but lots of Chinese fast food adds huge amounts of salt and MSG to save money on meat and other ingredients. Prokhorovka (talk) 13:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fried burgers? Who fries burgers -- aren't they usually grilled?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 03:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Presumably the definite answer is that a hamburger (from eg from McDonalds or Hungry Jack's) is servered very quickly (compared to a traditional "sit-down" restaurant). Hence "fast food". Mitch Ames (talk) 13:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course if you make them yourself at home - as I occasionally do - it's not so fast, but does taste much better! Mitch Ames (talk) 13:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Consider also how many calories are in a "typical" hamburger these days that one buys from a fast-food joint. The Carls Jr. menu is particularly fatty and high in calories -- you can easily get 800-900 calories from their burgers alone (plus heaps of fat, saturated fat, cholesterol), without even counting what you get from their sodas, fries (small fries = 320 calories, medium soda = ~400 calories), etc. One of their burgers rate as high as 1040 calories, which is madness for one component of one meal. (Amazingly, one of their salads rank about as high too—salad is not usually a "fast-food", but if you smother it in chili and cheese...) Like all things, you could make a "healthy" version of this sort of thing... but that's not what people are ordering or eating. You can easily top out at over 2000 calories for lunch at a place like this. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * As Mitch Ames has hinted at, you should perhaps read fast food. "Fast food is the term given to food that can be prepared and served very quickly. While any meal with low preparation time can be considered to be fast food, typically the term refers to food sold in a restaurant or store with low quality preparation and served to the customer in a packaged form for take-out/take-away". Note it doesn't say anything about 'unhealthy' Nil Einne (talk) 16:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you look at the McDonalds nutrional information you'll see that one of their regular hamburgers has 16% of your daily allowance of saturated fat and 22% for sodium (salt). A quarter pounder is even more and a double quarter pounder with cheese is 95% for saturated fat and 57% for sodium, that's enormously unhealthy. If we then add some medium fries (13% and 11% respectively) and a medium coke (no fat but 1% for sodium), that single meal gives you 108% of your daily allowance of saturated fat and 69% of sodium. That's for one meal, you probably eat 3 meals a day. You might be able to keep your salt intake very low in the other 2 (and any snakes) and keep your sodium below the limit (but that will be a challenge - even a slice of bread contains a considerable amount of salt!) but there is no way you have a negative amount of saturated fat! And then, if we look at calories that mean contains 740+380+210=1330kcal. A reasonably active man should eat about 2000kcal a day and you've had about 2/3 of that in one meal. With 2 more meals and probably a snack or two, you're very likely to go over your calorie limit. So, in this hypothetical day you've had way too much saturated fat, probably too much salt and probably too many calories - not a healthy diet by any means! (Other sources of burgers and other choices from the menu will obviously have different values, but I think a double quarter pounder with cheese, medium fries and a medium coke is a pretty typical order from McDonalds.) --Tango (talk) 16:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "Fast food" has somehow become a synonym for "junk food", but its being "fast" continues to be a major reason for its popularity. McDonald's originally bragged about what they called their "Speedee Service System". You can pull up to the window, place the order, and have it in your hands in less time than it takes to just walk in and sit down at a regular restaurant. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the confusion here is the false assumption that "fast food" is necessarily unhealthy. "Fast Food" refers to it's preparation. McDonalds' factory-line preparation and under 60second food-prep times is what makes the food "fast food".  That applies even if you're ordering a salad.
 * If you're at a nice sit-down restaurant and they happen to have a burger on the menu, the burger would not be "fast food" because it would, presumably, be individually prepared by a chef in the traditional manner. Same goes for hamburgers you cook yourself on the grill. APL (talk) 17:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * From what I've heard about McDonalds' salads, the unhealthy classification applies even when you're ordering a salad! --Tango (talk) 19:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * One could, presumably, create hamburgers which meet the Slow Food designation. Gwinva (talk) 22:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no "presumably" amount it - plenty of regular restaurants serve hamburgers. --Tango (talk) 02:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A 'fast food' joint is geared to just that: getting food to you ASAP. Naturally some corners will be cut in the pursuit of immediacy. Then you have a chain like Fatburger, where everything is cooked to order. The cost is higher but they seem to turn a tidy profit. Vranak (talk) 16:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that cheese is very high in saturated fat, which is part of the reason cheeseburgers are so bad for you, and burgers often contain things like mayonnaise, which can also be very high in fat. A burger alone may contribute 16% of your saturated fat requirement, which is actually not bad for a main meal, but if you add the cheese, plus fries, you're eating a lot of fat.

Why did Kazakhstan join UEFA?
And why did UEFA accept them? Bonus points; is there anywhere on WP that discusses how FIFA chooses to recognise regions as footballing nations? Cheers, Skomorokh  13:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Because, historically, Kazakhstan was a constituent state of the Soviet Union which was a member of UEFA and part of the European cultural sphere, even if it is physically part of Asia. UEFA and FIFA are not bound by strict physical definitions of continental borders, and it is likely Kazakhstan chose to make the jump from AFC to UEFA because of the historical connection to European states rather than other AFC member states.  -- Jayron  32  00:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A more interesting question is why Israel (whom many Muslim countries won't recognize) is in UEFA. Looking at the map at UEFA, you can see that apart from Israel (and the islands of Iceland, Great Britain, Ireland, Cyprus and Malta), there is a continuous UEFA territory including not only Russia and Kazakhstan but the Transcaucasian former Soviet Republics of Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has long since spread out far beyond the Atlantic. —— Shakescene (talk) 07:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Another interesting answer from the mercurial Jayron :) I find it odd that Muslim, autocratic, underdeveloped Kazakhstan would identify with the Europeans or choose to join a region that is much more competitive. Thanks to you both for your insight,  Skomorokh  16:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Bored on Sunday?
I found online on a site giving on-line orders to freelancers an order to crack the following code.

This may contain text and/or numbers. I took a jab at it but to no avail. It isn't simple ASCII or anything the like as far as I was able to determine. It's supposed to be a single line with no CRs. 261 numbers. If anyone finds the solution and would share it, I'd be happy. I'm not gonna get anything for it, apart from satisfaction if I manage to crack it. Anyone interested? Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 13:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Didn't someone ask this same question some time ago? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 13:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No idea. Wasn't me, though. I skimmed through the archives just now but couldn't see any related entry. Are you positive it was the same code? --Ouro (blah blah) 13:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * First thing I notice is disproportionately many 0's in the first half and then disproportionately few in the second half. Therefore, I would start by studying the 0's. --Tango (talk) 16:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think 3 digits represents a number: 61,50,59......,157,156,156. 89.139.122.23 (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That is my suppossition as well - that the code is actually 87 chunks, 3 digits each. --Ouro (blah blah) 16:37, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. That explains the disproportionate number of 0's - the numbers range for 1 to 246. If you graph the numbers you get something interesting that I can't interpret. At first they are mostly between 50 and 100 and then the second half are mostly between 150 and 200. --Tango (talk) 17:10, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess every 3 digit number represents a byte (= 8 binary digits = 0 to 255 in decimal). I think it's something with the binary level. 89.139.122.23 (talk) 17:25, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess that too, but I can't work it out. In ASCII all the basic characters are between 0 and 127. --Tango (talk) 17:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Where is the site you found this on? APL (talk) 17:35, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The link is here if it helps. Know any Polish? --Ouro (blah blah) 17:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is the encrypted message in Polish? Knowing what language the plaintext is written in is extremely important for decrypting it. --Tango (talk) 02:28, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, Tango. Maybe, but I don't really know. --Ouro (blah blah) 04:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I speak polish fairly well, not well enough to break a code, but well enough to hold a conversation without a native Polish speaker catching on, for a little while anyway. There is nothing in the description to suggest what language the code is in. So, there's probably a good chance it is in polish. In which case good luck! lol. It is pretty sparse on clues all round. All it says is ignore the line breaks, treat as one continuous string. I don't really understand the next line, he seems to say "in the text is coded 10231607 or allegro4 and other information, you have to find the method to extract that and other hidden information." No idea what he means by the 1st bit, maybe that there might be strings of numbers and or words with numbers in them. This alone seems to me like it would make the code fairly hard to break... Vespine (talk) 06:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Insect problems in countries
I'm considering emigrating after my studies (for various reasons), but am concerned about possible issues with insect in other places. When I say "problem", I mean that I have a morbid fear of insects (especially larger ones), and find the situation in my part of the world (South-west England) bad enough (one of the reasons I wish to leave!).

I have been unable to find any resources detailing the extent of such pest problems in other parts of the world (or rather, nothing suitable). May anyone be able to direct me to some? Failing that, how do the following places fare for size and quantity of insects in urban areas?


 * 1) Northern USA.
 * 2) The Netherlands.
 * 3) Germany.
 * 4) Scandinavia.

Thanks!--Leon (talk) 19:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, and perhaps by "insect" I mean "invertebrate pest", thus including spiders, etc.--Leon (talk) 19:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * In Boston there are not very many insects. It is cold much of the year the bugs don't come out for that. In the summer you get, at worst, some crane flies, cicadas, and maybe house centipedes. Wasps, honeybees, and bumblebees are not uncommon. I would consider the insect load to be pretty low, even with the above named. I see bumblebees probably more than anything else, clustering around flowers, and only in the summer. (And they mind their own business, as usual.) House centipedes show up in the basement occasionally, and they are pretty freaky, as far as bugs in the house go. Maybe a few spiders here and there but not many. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know about actually in Boston, Mass., but when I visited Massachusetts a couple of years ago I got very thoroughly bitten by a wide variety of flying beasties, and a strange itchy red mark on my ankle from something which I never saw. DuncanHill (talk) 20:10, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, there are mosquitos, too, I guess. And there are, I now remember, some very odd nasty beetles that fly around light sources at night. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 20:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * In Norway & Sweden, like Boston, you get a long period with no active bugs, but there can be plenty of biting flies in the summer, mosquitos, midges and clegs, although not many in urban areas. I've been working in Stavanger in Norway on and off for the last five years and I've hardly noticed any flies at all, possibly due to the wind and proximity to the sea. Mikenorton (talk) 22:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that arthropods are everywhere, except maybe in Antarctica. I've lived in Germany and several different parts of the United States.  I've lived in Boston and other parts of Massachusetts (as well as Illinois and northern California).  Every place I've lived has had bugs of various kinds.  Outside my living room window (in Massachusetts) is an enormous spider, close to 2 inches (5 cm) in length.  I don't think that Massachusetts is particularly rich in spiders or other crawly creatures, but we have our share.  I'm guessing the farther north you go, the less time bugs have to grow big (because summer is so short), so you might think about northern Scandinavia.  Marco polo (talk) 02:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, arthropods exist EVEN in antarctica. In fact, the largest terrestrial species endemic to the continent is Belgica antarctica, a flightless midge.  -- Jayron  32  02:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Concur, I've never seen so many flies as I experienced doing fieldwork in West Greenland. We used flynets over our heads on the worst days, one particularly strong image is combing my hair after a bad fly day and seeing a line of wriggling bodies caught between the teeth of the comb afterwards. Mikenorton (talk) 11:31, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm aware they're found in all places, but I'm hoping for a place considerably better in this regard to the UK, in terms of size and quantity of the things. For the record, I live in South-West England.--Leon (talk) 08:05, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Leon, if part of your reason for leaving SW England is to distance yourself from the bugs then maybe all you will do is intensify your dislike, fear, ?phobia or whatever. For what it is worth I think you would help your situation immeasurably if you were to consider some sort of cognitive therapy to overcome the discomfort. The best way to increase the power of a fear or phobia is to get away from the stimulus. Facing up to the problem, in a controlled (and assisted) way would give you a degree of happiness, satisfaction and confidence you could not at present imagine. You are fearing fear, you need to face down that fear and laugh at the bugs. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 09:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that you are unlikely to find a place free of bugs or even noticeably freer than SW England that also offers gainful employment. I don't think that leaving your region will solve this problem for you.  Marco polo (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I live on the northern edge of SW England (Bristol) and regard the area as essentially bug free. I might see a largish (one inch across legs) spider in our house about every three months. I've never seen a cockroach in my entire life. Beetles are rare and never in the house. There might be a few houseflies in the house on the warmest days. I'll see a few dozen wasps and bees in a whole summer. So I'm quite puzzled what bugs the OP is seeing and doubt he will find a more bug free area anywhere. - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 12:04, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The OP (me) lives in Bath and sees a (in)decent number of spiders, wasps and flies. Also creatures resembling stick insects, which frequently keep me up a night, as do spiders and crane flies (I'll add I don't see too many crane flies around here).  I see beetles in green spaces and those bother me a fair bit.  And also in open (to the outside world) corridors, such as to the entrance to my building, which has on occasion deterred me from going out (though I do make the effort to go out nonetheless).--Leon (talk) 12:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Lost this question about intelligence
I know it wasn't very intelligent of me not to bookmark it right away. It was about a week ago. The question was about people of lower intelligence being more inclined to be confident that they do know something, than people of higher intelligence. Someone gave a link to an article, but I can't recall the title. Thanks in advance, whoever remembers it. - KoolerStill (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Was it Unskilled and Unaware of It? 94.168.184.16 (talk) 19:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, 94. That is an article that was extensively quoted in the WP article I was thinking of. (too extensively, if it wasn't credited). This will do me fine for my original purpose, now I'll have to find the WP one to see it it needs fixing. -KoolerStill (talk) 20:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Dunning–Kruger effect.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That's the one! who'd ever guess that? Thanks, 83.- KoolerStill (talk) 05:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Overconfident and underconfident. Guess which type typically ends up in leadership roles? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 14:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * G. Bush was a long time ago - seriously someone would notice before an overconfident idiot got their hands on the nuke button, and command of the US army. Right???83.100.250.79 (talk) 16:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure they would. Hey, I've got a slightly used bridge to sell you. Some assembly required. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because Bush was a terrible public speaker does not mean he was an idiot. He has an MBA from an ivy league school, and they don't just give those out in crackerjack boxes.  Googlemeister (talk) 20:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that the hardest part about Harvard Business (like Harvard itself) is getting in. Once you are in, it is not hard to pass through, if you don't care about having the top grade in the class (which is hard). Getting Cs is pretty easy and comes at no real cost in terms of getting the degree. I don't say this to imply that is necessarily what Bush did (though I do recall reading that that pretty much is what he did), but an MBA is not the same thing as, say, a PhD, where you actually have to produce significant new research to get the degree (thus implying a somewhat higher level of commitment). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 23:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, let's not be bashing Cracker Jack. Bus stop (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can think of any number of national leaders that were much more confident than they had a right to be. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:14, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps people with subtle intelligence are inclined to watch, wait, and listen rather than act. When you misstep, you get burned. When you observe, there's scant risk of anything untoward occurring. Vranak (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As a periodontal resident, I can attest to 98's assertion that it is most probably true for most, if not the vast majority, of programs that the most difficult part is the "getting in" -- because post-doc is a lot about "getting out what you put it," many professors are not pushy and, even if they don't care for a student's relative lack of effort and/or determination, that's the way it works. It certainly worked that way in college, dental school and now my post-doc program.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 01:32, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Number sequence question
You know the famous number sequence that starts out as 1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211 and so on? The idea is to form item n+1 by reading the sequences of repeating digits in item n and concatenating them, as in "one", "one one", "two ones", "one two and one one" and so on. Well, I have figured that digits above 3 can never appear in the sequence. Proof: Assume, by counterassumption, that item n contains a digit 4. This means item n-1 contains four consecutive same digits. This, however, also means that item n-2 contains something like "a ns, b ns", in other words, a sequence of consecutive same digits that has somehow artificially been broken down to two sequences, which can never happen, because the way of forming the sequences is greedy. Is this correct? J I P | Talk 19:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is correct. We have an article on the sequence: Look-and-say sequence. --Tango (talk) 21:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * This might get better responses on the Math desk. It is possible to obtain larger numbers, if you seed the initial sequence, to generate other numbers.  If you intend to start from the seed sequence, "1", then as JIP has mentioned, there are certain known constraints.  I think the sequence eventually converges to members of a known set of possible cyclic results, for many types of seeds.  Nimur (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Cost of rail travel in Italia
This seems like a silly question to ask for help with, but Google is letting me down right now. Here goes:

I'm filling out paperwork in which I'm supposed to "estimate" some future travel costs. I'm going to Italy, and to save on airfare, I'm flying into Florence and out of Venice, although the event I'm attending is in Trieste. I plan to connect by train, which I'm told is very easy to do.

Now... what would it cost, to simply take a train from Florence to Trieste, and another one from there to Venice? I don't need exact numbers, and my actual route will involve some personal wanderings. Thus I just need a ballpark estimate, which will not be reflected on any particular receipt.

I looked at some websites, but all I found were ads for Eurail passes, which seem to cost much more $$ than I'm looking to spend. Can someone point me to a good resource, please? If it's in Italian... well, the numbers won't be in Roman numerals, just in Euros. :) -GTBacchus(talk) 21:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * www.italiarail.co.uk is in English and allows you to search for fares for specific journeys. I tried to get some fares for you, but "this website is experiencing technical difficulties. Please try again later". DuncanHill (talk) 22:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * www.italiarail.com is in American, and again you should be able to get fares for specific journeys. DuncanHill (talk) 22:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * try raileurope.co.uk eg florence to trieste (one way) £40-£50 takes under 5hrs, often change at venice.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * similar price/time for trieste to florence.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:14, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * trieste to venice 2-3hr, £15-£17.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:17, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1£ ~= 1euro nowadays.83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No. £1 = 1.16 Euros. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.50.118.230 (talk) 14:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Better still try the italian passenger rail company (english) http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/homepage_en.html - if you get a slow train - you pay less than above..83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:23, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That's awesome. Thank you very much! -GTBacchus(talk) 22:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The usual URL to use is http://www.trenitalia.it/ (Trenitalia is the marketing name of the railways), which redirects to www.ferroviedellostato.it (State Railways - their old title). Cost will vary depending on the class of train used. For a single journey Firenze SMN - Trieste a week tomorrow, the fares offered are 2nd class €49.90, 1st class €75.10 on Eurostar and Eurostar City (the fastest trains) and 2nd class €43.20, 1st class €65.55 on the Eurostar and Regionali combination (in both cases you have to change trains at Venezia - Mestre). Trieste to Venezia one way will be either €9.20 2nd class, €14.45 1st class, or €11.80 2nd class, €18.45 1st class - curiously, the cheaper selections appear to be faster journeys (2 hours instead of 3). Don't forget there are two main stations in Venice, Mestre in the suburbs, and Santa Lucia at the end of the causeway, on the lagoon. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 22:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also have a look at this excellent website which has a wealth of useful information on travelling by train all over the world. --Richardrj talkemail 22:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

A question about my car
My car (Fiat Uno 45) Was first registered In 04.12 1987, ok the question is it says in my car book, that the model is 1988 while it was first registered in 1987, I was was wondering since it was first registered in 1987 , Why isn't it's model year 1987 ? (p.s im from iceland) 85.220.97.100 (talk) 23:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In the US, the 2010 models are out now. Car models are usually released to the public about 6 months before the model year of the car.  Probably works the same in Europe.  Dismas |(talk) 23:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah - that was true in the UK too back in the 1980's. I believe the rules have changed now though.  In the US, the model year starts three or four months before the actual year - so it's VERY common for a car to be registered in the year preceding it's model year. SteveBaker (talk) 23:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much, for the info/answer :D, Another tiny question, Since it was first registered in '87 , Wouldn't it be manufactured that year (1987)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.220.97.100 (talk) 00:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There can be a delay between manufacture finishing and registration, particularly for imported vehicles, but a delay of over 11 months sounds unlikely. --Tango (talk) 02:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah - the car must have been manufactured earlier than the registration date (duh!) - so the car was built in '87. If it had been built in '86 and just sat on the showroom floor for however many months, it would have been an '86 or '87 model year. SteveBaker (talk) 01:32, 18 August 2009 (UTC)