Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 August 22

= August 22 =

Keystrokes in a debate
This question is clearly soapboxing and crossing the line between the talk: side and public side of the RD. I have therefore removed it. Please debate this removal (if you must) on the discussion page. SteveBaker (talk) 03:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

High Impulse Weapons System?
I can't find any information on this weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg

Having seen the destructive power and limitations of an AT4, this system seems amazing, but why have I never heard of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.217.137 (talk) 00:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I would have thought it was pretty obvious! How the heck are you supposed to aim something with that much recoil! SteveBaker (talk) 02:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Easy, the gun isn't semi-auto. Why on earth would the recoil even matter?HitmanNumber86 (talk) 02:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, once the shell has left the barrel, it doesn't really matter WHAT the gun does. The impressive thing about this system is that you can fire such a shell at ALL.  Without their recoil-damping-thingamajigger, such a gun would likely take your arm off.  Imagine such a shoulder-mounted howitzer without their high-tech recoil-control system.  Its impressive how LITTLE recoil that gun has. -- Jayron  32  03:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It does chuck it only 700yards (plus I have to stand up to fire it) - what was wrong with lying face down in a ditch with a mortar- I know body armor is getting better every day - but do I really want to stand up in the middle of a field..83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know what this thing is? (I'm the OP) HitmanNumber86 (talk) 03:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (google is your friend) http://www.militarycity.com/blackwater/blackwater3.html see section "Big Bubba".83.100.250.79 (talk) 11:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lacroix Pyro-Technologies might be http://www.etienne-lacroix.com 83.100.250.79 (talk) 11:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * With any weapon, you have to think of it as a tradeoff between a lot of factors. This one seems to be very unwieldy to fire—certainly more unwieldy than the many other options the military has for delivering that much explosive power. If I were in the field, I would not want to be standing for two minutes exposed, all of my weight on my front foot, trying desperately not to fall over. The goal is NOT "maximum firepower"—the goal is, what weapon is ideal for a given tactical situation. That particular weapon looks hard to aim and real, real pain to use. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure there's a tactical need for a handheld 76mm mortar. Between the rifle-mounted M203 grenade launcher and the heavier bipod and ground-mounted mortars, I don't really see any reason to need this.  98's and 83's objections are well-written - exposing the soldier, and putting him off balance, do not seem like a good idea in a combat situation - no matter how large an explosive he manages to lob.  Nimur (talk) 03:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * First off, when you fire an AT4 in the prone position you risk knocking off the fins of the rocket. Second, an AT4 has a HUGE backblast area. Third, AT4s suck at making it to a target over a hundred meters away. Fourth, 1 AT4 = 1 new BMW. Fifth, the Javelin has no backblast area but goes straight up, and still can't be fired indoors. Sixth, an AT4 isn't going to take out a tank in one hit, especially a modern tank.

So I can either, stand up/kneel, aim, and take out the tank form inside a building, or run outside, kneel, fire a shot, maybe hit the target, and hope the second guy who ran out with me, with another AT4, doesn't get hit so that we might make a catastrophic kill (as opposed to a firepower or mobility kill), and don't forget that everything behind me, up to a hundred meters, would be dead. --HitmanNumber86 (talk) 05:42, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Reason for protests at Mr. Rogers' funeral
Why did members of the Westboro Baptist Church protest at Fred Rogers' funeral? His article doesn't mention anything about him being gay.--99.251.239.89 (talk) 02:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The "God Hates ____ " Church isn't exactly known for being particularly rational in their beliefs, never mind the rest of it. They aren't particularly as interested in such concepts as "facts" and "reality" as much as they are in getting publicity for their sick, demented viewpoints.  -- Jayron  32  03:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The group protested, according to the following quote reproduced several times on various internet stories, because of "Rogers' failure to condemn homosexuality." // BL \\ (talk) 03:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's a quote from a typical news story about the incident :
 * "“Shirley Phelps-Roper, the attorney for the Westboro Baptist Church, explained that Rogers, as a Presbyterian minister with a television program, had a responsibility to comment on the issue. By not doing so, she explained that he was helping to perpetuate homosexuality, which the group says falls into the category of 'whoremongery and adultery, which will damn the soul forever in hell.' She added that the support some Americans have given to homosexuals has been the reason behind horrible tragedies including the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the crash of the NASA shuttle Colombia, and the nightclub fire in Rhode Island.”"
 * That's right, they're assigning partial blame to Mister Rogers for 9/11 and STS-107. APL (talk) 04:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The space-shuttle problem was obviously caused by NASA's naming it for a drug-producing South American nation instead of giving it a righteous U.S. name. Deor (talk) 13:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can only hope that Deor is engaging in sarcasm: Columbia (name). -- 128.104.112.102 (talk) 18:31, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Did Phelps really call that shuttle "Colombia"? Oy! "Columbia", of course, is a nickname for the U.S.A. The U.S.A. does produce marijuana, but much of the other illegal drug production is outsourced - to places like Colombia. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the reporter called it Colombia, at least. Deor (talk) 22:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the dilemma. Unless they got it from a press release, it could be the report's mistake. Like a reporter calling this bird a "morning dove". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Most anglophone people pronounce the name of the country Colombia exactly the same as Columbia. The Colombians themselves don't, though.  That's ok, I'll keep Mom/Mum about it. :)   --  JackofOz (talk) 23:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * English speakers are not known for being overly concerned with exact pronunciations of foreign words (or, for that matter, English words). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not our fault that foreigners have difficulty pronouncing the names of various countries and towns. DuncanHill (talk) 13:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean it should be obvious that Cairo, Illinois is pronounced Kayro?. DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's its "formal" pronunciation. I always heard it as a homophone to Karo, the corn syrup - like care-oh. And don't forget New Berlin (pronounced new BER-lin) and San Jose (san joe's). Then there's the toddlin' town Chicago, which is called shi-caw-go, shi-cah-go, and sometimes shi-car-go. Oh, and Illinois, which is often called ill-i-NOISE. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 10:58, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Americans are foreigners too, don't forget. DuncanHill (talk) 17:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

rr mailing zones
how can i find a map of local rr mailing zones? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.46.42.29 (talk) 02:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What does "local" mean to you? // BL \\ (talk) 03:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to give your local area. Warrior  4321  04:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Assuming that "rr" is "rural route", I'd try your local post office. &mdash; Lomn 12:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Airport security - no driver's license
So I'm going on a flight in 9 days. It's possible I won't have my driver's license by that point. What, if anything could I bring in order to get through security, definitely? Chris M. (talk) 05:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I am fairly certain you need some sort of picture ID. Contact the airport directly, though, to get specific ways to fix this problem.  -- Jayron  32  05:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I know someone who lost their ID when they went to Vegas. She had to get a police report and some other things, but they did let her on the flight home. I agree with Jayron32. Contact the airport or if you're in the US, TSA directly and see if there's anything you can do. 08:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.32.17 (talk)


 * (Obviously) a passport would also work. . . --S.dedalus (talk) 09:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Where are you, and where are you going to? The answers vary hugely depending on that.  If you're on an internal flight within a passport area (e.g. Schengen, United States), then any government issued photo ID will generally suffice.  If you're crossing a border/recalcitrant part (e.g. Australia to Malaysia, or mainland Europe to UK), you'll need a passport.  But a passport is just a good idea generally, since it will always work --Saalstin (talk) 10:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Does "recalcitrant" have a special meaning in relation to air space, international borders etc, Saalstin? Normally it means stubborn, defiant, resistant to authority, obstinate, passively rebellious. --  JackofOz (talk) 12:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, that does kinda describe the UK's attitude towards the rest of the EU. -- Jayron  32  16:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hence the legendary Times headline: "Fog in channel - continent cut off." Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I just asked because Saalstin mentioned the Australia-Malaysia route immediately after the word "recalcitrant", which reminded me of the brouhaha caused when the Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating described the Malaysian PM Mahathir bin Mohamad as "recalcitrant" for refusing to attend the 1993 APEC summit. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, sorry - Jayron and Baseball Bugs got it - I was giving situations where a passport would be needed, Aus-Malaysia was an example of crossing an international border, 'recalcitrant' was fairly specifically referring to the UK's decision to remain outside the Schengen zone despite our EU membership, so wheras you can drive from Spain to Poland without ever needing papers, as soon as you get on the boat at Calais you'll need documents. Apologies for being unclear --Saalstin (talk) 14:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries. --  JackofOz (talk) 08:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

If OP is talking about an airport in the USA, you can find the requirements at the TSA web page ID Requirements for Airport Checkpoints. Note that this page mentions the requirements are for travelers 18 and over. It doesn't specify what ID, if any, you would need if you are 16 or 17; maybe they would accept a birth certificate in that case but it seems like a flaw in their procedures. —Citefixer1965 (talk) 01:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Since that excellently-provided link says you now need a picture ID if you're in the US and are an adult, you need to contact the DMV and find out about paying extra for an "expedited" license. Or, this will cost something, but you may be able to get an expedited passport in a few days if you have your birth certificate and passport photos on hand.  Tempshill (talk) 03:49, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Long distance running
What is the most suitable age to initiate a child into long distance running i.e 800 Metres etc? sumal (talk) 06:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps when the child itself shows some spontaneous interest in long distance running - as opposed to the parent wishing the child to do it. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 07:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

800 metres is not long distance. And 3 miles and more is far too much too soon for a young child. But why do you want to initiate the child ? If you run yourself he or she will either follow, or not. You cannot force a child into something against their understanding of themselves.86.197.17.161 (talk) 12:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)DT


 * Prsuming your child has already shown interest - otherwise there is no point in trying to get them to - the best thing to do is to make it fun. Start them off with walking - various charities have walks - for cancer, for instance - where a chlid might walk with his or her parents for a certain stretch, and raise money for that cause. Once they are used to the distance, then is when I would suggest getting them to maybe be used to doing it faster. A nice side benefit is that they learn about helping others, too.Somebody or his brother (talk) 16:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Any age in the range 20 to 50 is suitable because you should be a mature rôle model who is not too old to keep up. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Purely anecdotal, but I have seen children as young as 5 years running competitively in 5km races. — Michael J  21:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

cold and cold water
if you have a cold and you drink cold water, will this affect the cold, i mean worsen it or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.141.158 (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Our article on the common cold documents current medical opinion that temperature has no direct bearing on the illness. &mdash; Lomn 15:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It also says, though, that "the onset of common cold symptoms can be caused by acute chilling of the feet". The BBC has a video here (from the same source as cited in our article) saying that hot drinks relieve the symptoms. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7773655.stm ...whether this makes the actual cold better or worse, I couldn't say. (I haven't watched the video, hope it's good.) 81.131.6.207 (talk) 19:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A regular cold can't be cured by medication, only its symptoms can be eased by various remedies. Typically, just go with whatever makes you feel better, or feel "less worse". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In this time of flu pandemic the CDC advise "drink clear fluids (such as water, broth, sports drinks, electrolyte beverages for infants) to keep from being dehydrated". When a patient has a fever it is helpful to cool the forehead by a wet cloth . Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We should be careful not to give specific medical advice, as per the instructions on the top of the page. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 18:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Drink plenty of fluids" is standard advice from both doctors and the average citizen, for helping with colds. Giving advice for the swine flu is another matter. That requires a doctor visit. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And back to the original question, refrigerator cold feels good, so it must be good - be it water or OJ. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 19:14, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Traditions in a few countries say that cold water is bad for the stomach because of the temperature contrast. I don't know of any studies on its efficacy. Steewi (talk) 03:44, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose chilled liquids could cause the phlegm in your throat to tighten up. I drink lots of water, juice, etc. when I have a raw sore throat, but I drink peppermint tea if I've got a lot of gunk in my mouth/throat. That seems to work better for me. As always, your family doctor gets paid well to keep up with this kind of thing. Matt Deres (talk) 13:39, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Sheepskin Boats in Xinjiang
I was just made aware of 羊皮筏子, or "sheepskin rafts" (according to Google Translate). What are these (is there a more precise name than "sheepskin raft"?) Why don't we have an article on them? Photos seem plentiful. I'm told that these boats are made in Western China or Xinjiang. Nimur (talk) 20:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The boats themselves look more like pontoon boats than rafts. The air-filled bladders are certainly functioning as pontoons themselves.  -- Jayron  32  21:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There's a comprehensive article (in Chinese) at Baidu Baike. Perhaps an interested editor could use that as a basis to work up an article in the Chinese Wikipedia (which, given its Hong Kong / Taiwan selection bias, has no article on the object), and translate it into English. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, as far as I'm aware, most of the Chinese Wikipedia is accessible from most of Mainland China. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 04:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * AH1, I can independently confirm that; I posted some commentary about that issue back in June. Nimur (talk) 17:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Access or lack thereof is not what I was referring to AstroHurricane001. The editors on Chinese wikipedia are disproportionately from outside mainland China. Many of these seem to feel very strongly about certain issues (as Chinese editors everywhere seem to do). Added to this was the long periods of blockage from mainland China -- the result is that Chinese Wikipedia has very heavy coverage on controversial political issues, and also matters concerning areas outside mainland China, especially Taiwan - and really quite scant coverage of more general topics. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Simple family trees
I'm might create, unless there is another one online, a bit of a family tree for the British lords, Royal families, that sort of thing. What I'm asking is whether there is a cut-down free piece of software - for Vista or Ubuntu - that only handles simple data, like name, birth/death date and preferably another line suitable for title. Obviously, I could do this some other way, but it's the constant rearranging that such programs usually do well that I want. The sort of thing that can produce German monarchs family tree sort of thing, except so it's easy to add people and the program do the fitting (not necessarily as compactly). I'm aware I'm not being quite as clear as I could be, but simplicity with the program is key - I've seen lots with multiple notes, pictures, adding people outside the tree, etc., which would be good if doing detailed analysis of one's own family, but not what I'd most like. - Jarry1250 [ In the UK? Sign the petition! ] 21:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well there is this software simply titled Simple Family Tree (Scroll down a bit to downlooad) It appears to be a understandable version that gets right down to the basics of forming a family tree without the detail. Richard (talk) 21:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe you're looking for something like the Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal which has this information in database form. Good luck if you're wanting to put this on a family tree! However I do note this: "Lines are traced out in descendency tables until about the middle of the 19th Century" so it may be that some of the work has been done for you. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC) If that's not enough for you, add the Tudor Roll of the Blood Royal with its 35000 plus entries . --TammyMoet (talk) 15:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

football question
If you play football for Army, or Navy or whatever, do you have to actually join or be in the US Army or US Navy or do they make exceptions so that they are not limiting the pool of players for their team? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.129.73 (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Army" and "Navy" refer to the United States Military Academy and the United States Naval Academy. Those are 4-year colleges.  You must be a student at those colleges.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit conflict]


 * I'm almost morally certain that you have to be a cadet or midshipman in the United States Military Academy (West Point, NY), United States Naval Academy (Annapolis, MD), United States Air Force Academy (Colorado Springs, CO) or the United States Coast Guard Academy (New London, CT) to play on the team that informally bears its service's name (there's no major "Marine Corps" team, because the U.S. Marine Corps, coming under the Navy Department, has recruited Annapolis graduates instead of operating a parallel academy.) And after you either graduate from or leave the academy, you'd have to serve several years in the relevant service. I'm no fan of or expert in American football, but I remember that one of Navy's star players in the 1960's went straight into service once he'd graduated and received his naval commission. I think that recruitment of high-school athletes by the service academies differs from the recruitment of other students, but they have to meet the same admissions and performance standards. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:27, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're probably thinking of Roger Staubach, who served his full five-year commitment of active Navy service before beginning his pro career. On the other hand, David Robinson (basketball), and perhaps other more-recent service-academy athletes, have had their period of active service reduced (to two years in Robinson's case) so that they could go off and make the big bucks in the pros. Deor (talk) 22:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes I was thinking of Roger Staubach, who served in Vietnam before joining the Dallas Cowboys, the College Football Hall of Fame and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Napoleon McCallum served in the Navy and played for the Oakland Raiders at the same time for the first year of his naval committment. I'm not sure how that worked.  But after that, he was a full time Naval officer for four years, then returned to the Raiders.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)