Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 August 29

= August 29 =

Test driving a car
Hi. I have arranged to test drive a VW Golf tomorrow at a franchised dealer in the UK, but I have never had a test drive before. I just wondered if anybody could advise me on what to expect and if there is anything that I should watch for, please.

A couple of specifics:


 * Would I normally be driving the car alone, or would somebody drive from the dealership come with me?
 * If I am driving the car alone, what kind of checks do they do and what kind of documentation do I need to take with me?
 * Will I be covered on their insurance (I don't have my own insurance yet)?
 * What paperwork will they likely get me to sign and what should I watch out for?
 * Are there any "unwritten rules"/etiquette with regards to does and don't?

Any help with the above and any general guidance would be really appreciated.

Many Thanks HungryAvocado (talk) 01:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure how it goes in the UK but in the States, the salesman generally rides with you, you have to supply them with a valid driver's license (which they will photocopy for their records), you will be covered by their insurance. Dismas |(talk) 01:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, this is from the States, but I thought I'd point out that, at least in my end of the country, a salesman ride-along seems fairly rare (for used cars, at least). My wife and I have bought two used cars from dealerships, and on each occasion had done test drives at several sites where the salesman made a photocopy of our driver's license (and maybe kept something as collateral? I can't remember) and let us drive around ourselves. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 08:14, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I can report from my experiences in France - someone from the dealership will be along for the ride. You need to bring a driver's license, and you'll be covered by their insurance. I don't recall having to sign any paperwork, but it was awhile back and my memory is not as good as it used to be :) As far as I could tell, there were no "unwritten rules" - the person from the dealership will likely recommend a route, although you can ask for a different one to experience different "kinds" of driving (highway, city...). All in all, it's very simple and painless - after all, they are trying to entice you to buy the car, so they'll make it as hassle-free as possible. If you're worried about bringing paperwork, just phone them and ask, I'm sure they'll be more than helpful. Have fun! &mdash; QuantumEleven 07:55, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You've probably already been, so this post may be pointless, but just in case...
 * I've test-driven cars a number of times in the UK, the last time being just before Christmas of last year. The salesperson did not come with us on the last occasion; this was unusual but not unprecedented. We had the car for about 25 minutes, before which he took my name and address and ran me through their computer system (in order, I assume, to check with the DVLA that I had a driving license, since the test drive was not premeditated and I had ID with me but not my license).  Yes, you're covered on their insurance.  As far as do's and don'ts are concerned, I can (from personal experience) recommend leaving sticky children at home, particularly if the test car has pale upholstery.  Ka renjc 15:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi again. I just wanted to stop by to thanks everybody for their advice above (it made me feel far better prepared and I appreciate it) and also to describe what did actually happen. I was actually in the car about 5 minutes after arriving at the showroom (I had chatted with the saleman on the phone when arranging the test drive). To my surprise the salesman did not check my driving licence, or any other identification and I was not asked to sign anything before driving the car. However the salesman did ride along with me. We ended up driving for about half an hour. I was a bit surpised that my licence/ID wasn't checked and I am pretty sure that I did not give him sufficient information over the phone for him to check my ID ahead of time. Thanks again for all of your advice. HungryAvocado (talk) 16:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Dog behaviour
There used to be a problem of stray dogs messing up the porticos of houses( in the night) despite many efforts to ward them off. Now residents have developed a solution which is effective- "They fill bottles with water and place them in the porticos". Strangely enough, no dog enters the porticos which have this bottles placed. my question is- How is it so? why is this method sucessful? 59.162.124.56 (talk) 05:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

For many years the French villagers have filled plastic bottles and put them by their doors. The hope is that dogs will cock their legs against the bottles and not the doors. It is only partly effective since the dogs don't care. Never heard of dogs being put off by such action... but perhaps dogs in your part of the world are more intelligent (or - probably) more stupid?86.209.155.232 (talk) 10:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)DT


 * I can't explain the reasoning behind it, but plastic bottles full of water used to be a common sight on lawns here (Brisbane, Australia) 10-15 years ago. It doesn't seem to be done any more. FiggyBee (talk) 10:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No no - the answer is much more simple than the above responses. In fact, what is happening, is that the dog now visualises the lobby as being a second home given that it is being catered for, and will not therefore urinate or defecate in its own patch, so to speak. 92.23.113.61 (talk) 11:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw the same thing in Japan - plastic bottles full of water everywhere. You even get them around small buddhist statues and other things. I always wondered what they were! Now I have an explanation! --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 12:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I suspect bottles of water near shrines are offerings, rather than dog-deterrents. FiggyBee (talk) 13:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * my dad uses the above, but as a detterent against cats, as he believed that it scared cats away, as said cat sees it's refltection, thinks its another cat and scampers off sharpish, cat like. This brings a whole new angle to the question, as does the cat not exsist until it sees it's self? :) Perry-mankster (talk) 21:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC) (oops did not mean to post mid text, sorree Perry-mankster (talk) 21:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC))


 * No, there are offerings there, too, in small sake cups. No, these bottles are big 2 litre plastic bottles that you get in the convenience store. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Snopes has an article, but they're unwilling to say whether it works. I don't see how it would work, and the lack of a consistent explanation suggests to me that it's just Confirmation bias. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 17:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah. I was going to add that but couldn't remember the term.  :)  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw lots of plastic bottles full of water in doorways in southern Spain. On asking I was told they kept ants out of the houses (???!!!) Damn polite ants only coming in through the front door. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 07:52, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers sumal (talk) 10:04, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Looking for specific type of online games
This has been bothering me for a while, so I've decided to ask around. Basically, my brother and I want online games where he can log in on his computer, and I log in on mine, and we can play against each other. For some reason we have a very hard time finding these.

Platform Racing 2 is an example of this. When we both log in under different names, we can race each other over the internet, with or without other players involved. WE just get bored of games quickly, and we'd like a larger supply than the 2 or 3 we've so far found.

I'd like either examples of (IYO) fun games that work like this, or places where I can find lots of games like this. Everything I google ("multiplayer games" "online games") doesn't seem to get me anything that works like this.

Also, we just want in-window games. Not something where we have to download and install things onto the computers. (We are, however, okay with registering online, like in the Platform Racing 2 example). We do not want to have to pay money to play the game. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 05:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

www.miniclip.com has a entire section of multiplayer games. Personally I really enjoy their Snooker and pool games. The anagrammatic game is quite fun too, worth trying this site if you've not already (link to the multiplayer section; http://www.miniclip.com/games/en/multiplayer.php) 10:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.funorb.com/ has a number of multiplayer games. You can choose who participates, if you aren't playing Rated games. Vimescarrot (talk) 17:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

www.kdice.com is a place where you can play a risk [[risk (game)]] type game, called kdice. They also have a texas hold'em area. All you need to do is submit your email address and a password. I will warn you though, PGAing (Pre game alliances) are very discouraged. The Reader who Writes (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Natural number? (nummer? wtf lol)
I'm just wondering if there's any kind of natural cream or product that has a numbing effect on the skin, so that it could be used for example to slightly ease the pain from plucking hairs. Is there anything like that? Thanks! 210.254.117.186 (talk) 11:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Whatever it may be, you won't find any information about it @ natural number. --  JackofOz (talk) 11:50, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * See Local_anesthetic, those are a bit strong - opium, maybe cocaine from coca leaves ? 83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You may wish to try rubbing a cut fresh chili on the site because of the numbing effect of the capsicin. Not recommended for eyebrow hairs though - too close to the eyes. There are creams which contain capsicin - maybe available at your local health food shop? Alternatively I'd suggest holding an ice cube on the site before you pluck - may need to hold it there for over 15 seconds though. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mean Capsaicin - the last time I rubbed chillis on my skin it produced a burning sensation - ie it hurt. Does it stop other things hurting? The article suggests there may be endorphin release - but I'm not sure?83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes that's it, thanks. There are certain anaesthetic creams that use this naturally occurring substance in order to overstimulate the pain receptors so they don't respond. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Curiously, what is this substance called which benumbs the skin? Is it really called 'number'? I think it should be called 'local anaesthetic'. I have the same confusion as OP had. - DSachan (talk) 14:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Numbing cream, numbing ointment, numbing anaesthetic...83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Topical anaesthetic". Fribbler (talk) 16:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nair or Veet or products like that numb the skin, don't they? Adam Bishop (talk) 15:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Nair, and in my experience it has no numbing effect at all. -- LarryMac  | Talk  18:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure that numbing the skin is enough to remove any pain when plucking hairs, as it probably will not have an effect on the roots of the hair which is where most of the pain would come from. --Saddhiyama (talk) 16:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hairs do not physiologically exist on any mucous membranes, and the effect of topical anethstics on thiekly keratinized tissue like the scalp, forearm, etc. will be much less than on lightly- or non-keratinized epithelium like any of the internal surfaces of the mouth -- otherwise, I'd say ask your dentist if you can buy a bottle of 20% benzocaine off of him or her. Then again, that might be illegal, so perhaps trying some ambesol or oragel from your local pharmacy.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 20:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Ice might numb the skin enough..hotclaws 20:58, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried some strong topical cream and it did absolutely nothing. I couldn't even feel any numbing sensation on bare skin, so I guess it only really works with direct contact to exposed nerves! Ice probably would be the best solution now that I think about it! 210.254.117.186 (talk) 06:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

old stock information
I have some old stocks issued in 1954 too a company called t.v. films production co. inc. in shreveport la. but cannot find any information about them. i would appreciate any information avaible.Wwo9 (talk) 13:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Put "old stock certificates" into Google. Among other things, you'll find companies that would love to help you research them (for a "small fee" of course); help from the SEC itself; and companies that will buy the old certificates. In any case, I wouldn't plan on them being the foundation of your retirement account :-) --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 22:54, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You may be able to find a copy of the CCH Capital Changes Reporter in a large library. That often shows mergers and name changes.  John M Baker (talk) 22:40, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The Louisiana Corporations Database shows that a corporation of that name was dissolved in 2001. It had a Shreveport address and was extant in 1954, so it's presumably the same company.  This implies that the stock no longer has value.  It's possible, however, that the company owed the stockholder dividends or other distributions, which the company would have paid over to the state unclaimed property fund.  You may want to check the Louisiana fund, and also the fund (if different) for the state in which the stockholder lived.  John M Baker (talk) 22:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Consultancy !!
to open a job consultancy what are the initial steps that i need to do ..is it striking a deal with companies whom i can hire for or get the marketing guys who can run around for the purpose


 * Get yourself a Masters' Degree in Human Resource Management. Then think again.86.209.155.232 (talk) 16:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)DT


 * That's terrible advice. 99% of successful companies have been started by people without such a degree.  The hardest part is finding a client who is willing to pay you for your services.  All of the preparation, fund raising, and hiring that occur are useless without the client.  Anyway, rather than researching via the Reference Desk, you need to visit the bookstore or library and look up books on entrepreneurship.  Tempshill (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Successful companies, yes, not successful consultancies. You need to be an expert before you can be a consultant. You can either gain that expertise through formal education or through experience (a combination of the two would be best, I think). --Tango (talk) 17:21, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Tangos answer is the best so I repeat it, expertise, preferably an area of expertise that is rare or new, or only required seldom (so the client companies wont have that expertise in house) is the most important thing. After that comes advertising the service etc.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes, taking an expertise which is common in one industry, and offering it as a service to a different industry, is a good way to leverage your skillset. But, as has been mentioned, a useful consultant needs to be more of an expert than the people he works for - so the first step is to become an expert at something profitable.  Nimur (talk) 16:02, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

strategic?
what is a stretegic view point and what does it mean when my boss says from the strategic frame of reference..please help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 15:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

If you are not careful this can be a topic where you can be easily confused. Simply: Strategy is deciding what must be done overall. Tactics are the way(s) of doing it. BUT, and here comes the confusion. People at each level have to determine their strategy, and plan their tactics. Thus an Admiral determines battle strategy. His tactics are to assign individual ships to tasks. Ship Captains have to set strategy for what they have to do, and then tactics for doing it.86.209.155.232 (talk) 15:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)DT


 * He means, "from a the big picture." So you might, on a day to day basis, be selling some product, but from a strategic or "big picture" view you might, in fact, be involved in boosting your company's stock so that you can sell it off later. Or whatever the strategy might be. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes - in business strategic means in the long term - years, rather than days.
 * Additionally "strategic" can be used in business as a euphemism, specifically in terms of things that in the short term are 'painful' to do - eg sacking people, closing factories etc83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

UK Embassies During Bank Holidays
If this coming Monday is a bank holiday, would that mean that all the UK Embassies abroad will be closed, too? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:39, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think consulates usually follow local customs with regards to holidays - they are usually staffed largely by locals under local employment contracts. Emergency consular assistance will be available at any time (if you are arrested or hospitalised, say), more routine stuff will have to wait until they are open. The best way to find out the opening times of the consulate nearest you would be to phone it. If they are closed there will probably be a recorded message with opening times and instructions for contacting someone in an emergency. --Tango (talk) 17:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. That's what I'll do first thing Monday morning. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Username

 * Wasn't sure if this should go on the computing reference desk, but as it deals with people more than computers I'll put it here.

Have there been any studies into how usernames on websites affect how the user is perceived? For example, someone with only numbers as their username might be seen differently from another person who using their favorite tv character as part of their name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.99 (talk) 17:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Interesting question. I certainly am biased against unintelligible and immature usernames. However, a few minutes spent googling for such a study did not lead me anywhere. Perhaps a more experienced user has heard of such study/can locate one for you. Good luck! --proficient (talk) 18:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The WP:USERNAME policy is the work of many editors. It recommends non controversial usernames and disallows usernames that are misleading, promotional, offensive or disruptive.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:42, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Our anonymity article may be of interest. hydnjo (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The irony of this is that IP addresses are less "anonymous" than registered users, because they can be tracked down to some extent, and registered users cannot, other than through what they happen to say about themselves. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:21, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or Checkuser
 * Apparently we do have an article on Pseudonymity, with a section on online pseudonyms. Going to the realms of anecdote, I've read various posts on feminist blogs where the authors have said they get treated very differently with a gender specific username (e.g. being told tits or GTFO). AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 22:19, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's largely confined to 4chan and mostly within the /b/ and /r9k/ boards. As both /b/ and /r9k/ are steaming piles of shit no one cares, but anywhere else people who say that crap are usually told to fuck off.
 * Checkusers can see anyone's IP, apparently, but that's not for public ocnsumption, so I didn't count it. I would think registered usernames would indeed convey an impression, good or bad. An IP address in general can do likewise. Let's hope specific digits don't play into the prejudice. ("I don't like him. He's got an odd-numbered subnet.") Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 22:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The reasons the numbers feel more "anonymous" is that they usually do change over time, and they're hard to keep straight. A name comes with a continued identity; most users don't create new accounts every two months or create names that are similar to others'. I doubt most people have a built up "picture" in their mind of an IP user, whereas one quickly comes to recognize actual usernames. People also "invest" less in you when you are an IP, which can be a good thing if you're tired of the tedious talk page antics that WP produces. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:02, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I certainly don't know very much, but a simple IP can often reveal either your Internet Service Provider (or institution or corporation: whoever's providing your connection to the Internet) or your geographic location or both. Some IP's change over time, and others don't. Apart from the security and privacy issues, someone could be prejudiced against your city or against your ISP/institution (e.g. AOL, the military, Nigeria, Belarus). —— Shakescene (talk) 03:03, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Shakescene has some good points. (I remember the disdain AOLers were treated with on usenet.) In particular, I don't think it's uncommon for someone to at least look at what country another user comes from. While many users choose to reveal this, and often it's not that hard to guess, with an IP unless the person has taken some efforts (e.g. a proxy) it's known if another user wishes to know. For better or worse, I suspect this can often make a resonalbe difference into how people perceive you. I also don't know about 98's point on IPs. Particularly if you participate a fair amount and your IP remains recognisable, it's likely many people will build up a picture. Worse, particularly if your IP changes a fair amount (but remains recognisable) they may easily conflate multiple people which is not necessarily a good thing. For example, I know there are at least two 98's here. I realised this a while back when they were replying to each other and if I hadn't, I might be thinking they were the same and I doubt this is uncommon since the first two byte is obviously the first thing you'd remember (well at least if you know anything about IPs). Obviously two consistent different contributors will often be recognised over time as such, but odd participant may not be. Also if your IP changes relatively frequently it makes it difficult to check your contributions. This may seem like a good thing, but it isn't necessarily. For example I once made a comment about another wikipedian to someone (outside wikipedia). Upon checking the contrib history however, I realised I'd probably been a bit harsh. If this had been an IP that changed frequently, I would likely still have the same impression of this editor. Finally it wouldn't surprise me if being an IP often dehumanises the person even more to a lot of people. Nil Einne (talk) 16:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * On the Internet, no-one can tell you're not human to start with. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog, you mean? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I was assuming readers' prior knowledge of the '. . . dog' meme in order to joke about Nil Einne's use of "dehumanises" and imply that I myself might not be human. Unfortunately, jokes are never nearly as funny when you have to explain them. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 20:13, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't worry - that one was exactly as funny after the explanation...unfortunately... :-P SteveBaker (talk) 00:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The reference section of Online_identity might be interesting too, though it seems to be more about how people present themselves than how they are perceived. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:44, 1 September 2009 (UTC)