Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 August 4

= August 4 =

Beavis and Butthead recently
Have any of you seen the episodes of Beavis and Butthead that has been on MTV2? It's the episodes sans the videos, with four segments in the half hour rather than two. What exactly is this? Torkmann (talk) 01:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Syndication? Nimur (talk) 02:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, but the original episodes (with the videos) were in syndication on MTV2 for years. Torkmann (talk) 02:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh heh heh. Edison (talk)


 * The DVDs also omit the music-videos. Sad.  One understands the licensing problem, but those included some of the best bits! &mdash;Tamfang (talk) 22:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, MTV2 is now playing the versions from the DVDs. Even the closing credits are from the DVDs. Mike R (talk) 20:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Army basic training record
I attended Army basic training at Fort Leonard Wood Mo., beginning March 31, 1964. Throughout the training a photographer took pictures of many activities and at the end of the training you could purchase a "yearbook" of the training period. At the time I did not have any extra money to purchase the "book". I am looking for leads on how I might find a copy of this book. (I won the obstacle course competition for our entire training company). There were hundreds of soldiers who "graduated" that June who probably purchased a copy. I would like to borrow a copy to make a copy. This may be a needle in a haystack but thought I would try. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Farnorthvet (talk • contribs) 03:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it safe to assume you have tried to contact Fort Leonard Wood directly? - Here is their website: http://www.wood.army.mil/wood_cms/  Failing that, if you can remember the names of some of the other guys in your training company, have you tried looking them up in online telephone white pages or Googling them?  Obviously, it might be easier to find a specific individual with an unusual name, than someone with a more common name (for example, there could be thousands of Bill Johnsons but not that many guys called Matt Zwicki) - I'm also thinking that some will probably be around 60 now and coming up for retirement from possibly quite senior positions in various corporations - a site like LinkedIn might help there.  Astronaut (talk) 04:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good advice though I'd use Facebook on that last point as well as LinkedIn. Facebook is the #1 social networking site in the US and is bound to be for quite some time.  When you set up your profile, be sure to include a photo of yourself from back then as well as today; photos will make it more likely someone will contact you after you find them.  Tempshill (talk) 05:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Books of that sort come up for sale on Ebay all the time. Old high school yearbooks, phone books from small towns 50 years ago, what have you. Create an Ebay account and it can email you when one comes up for sale. Edison (talk) 14:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I searched on Ebay for "Ft. Leonard Wood 1964" and up popped a "1964 FT LEONARD WOOD ARMY TRAINING YEARBOOK CO. A" The sale runs another 3 days. It is for "COMPANY A SECOND BATTALION 2ND REGIMENT OF THE U S ARMY TRAINING CENTER ENGINEER." Here is one for "1964 FT LEONARD WOOD MISSOURI ARMY TRAINING  YEARBOOK.  COMPANY B 1ST BATTALION 2D  9 APRIL 1964" Whatever group you were in is likely to have similar memorabilia come up for sale.   Edison (talk) 03:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Future=now?
why is it important to apprehend the future needs of the consumers to stayy competitive in the market as a producer or service provider.Did APPLE do the same to get where it is now with no tough competeter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 07:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please read the top of the page, specifically the bit about us not doing your homework for you. As for Apple computers, they DO have a tough competitor called Microsoft; Apple Records, the record company founded by the Beatles has plenty of competitors all round the world (see List of record labels); and Apple Bank has many competitors in New York including Citibank, Bank of America, and many others.  Astronaut (talk) 07:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, apples are in competition with pears, oranges, etc. It's tough out there. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 07:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Having re-read the questions, and taking into account the OP not using English as their first language, maybe he meant "Why is it important to comprehend the future ..." and "Would Apple do the same to get where it is now ...". Astronaut (talk) 08:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Any company anywhere wants to be successful, obviously, and to be successful they have to find the market for a product. There were actually quite a few small computers around when Apple first came along. They slowly disappeared, like the Hupmobile and its brethren, until we are left with just two viable competitor types - the Apples and the IBM PC clones. It's the nature of business - from many manufacturers (broad-based competition) to just a few manufacturers (monopolistic competition). Economics 101. When there are a number of rival products that are ostensibly similar, various factors kick in, including marketing skills and, frankly, some luck. VHS won out over Beta, not necessarily because it was a better product as such (Beta's picture quality was said to be superior to VHS, as I recall) but because VHS was perceived to be more flexible (2-4-6 hours vs. just 2) and - fatally so - the perception in the market that VHS was the future. Self-fulfilling. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 08:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually - the main reason VHS won was because of Porn. Beta tapes were proprietary - a typical porn vendor couldn't get them - so porn went out on easily obtainable VHS.  Since pre-recorded tapes (both porn and mainstream) were expensive, the rental market took off - and that couldn't sustain two formats, so the one that had the porn won.  Beta was (technologically) a much better format - and others such as the Philips V2000 format were superior to both VHS and Beta - but by then it was all over.  Sad - but true. SteveBaker (talk) 13:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Apple/IBM and Beta/VHS are both instructive. Apple and Betamax were both superior technologies kept proprietary. The PC and VHS were made open through licensing deals, allowing a far larger number of participants in the marketplace. Costs came down more quickly and more enterprises promoted the technology. Apple (the computer company) just barely survived as a company, but then got back the smart guy at the top and has since become resurgent by anticipating the customer desire for simplicity in consumer areas beside computers. Also, they figured out that people will buy a computer based on the colour of the casing, which was pretty smart from a marketing standpoint. Basically though, Apple survived long enough on their cashflow from fanatics to use the same brand name in other markets, using the same idea of simplicity in the user interface. Franamax (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The Apple=Beta IBM=VHS analogy can be stretched too far. When Beta died, the change happened rapidly - in a matter of months, certainly not years.  More instructively, when HD-DVD died and BluRay won, the change happened in about 2 weeks - a couple of key manufacturers flipped - and before you knew it the prices of HD-DVD players had dropped like a rock and stores had pretty much removed the actual media from their shelves.  People who'd bet on the wrong horse were kicking themselves - but everyone knew that both formats couldn't possibly be here to stay.  In both cases (Beta/VHS and HD/BluRay), the market couldn't sustain two competing and incompatible formats.  However, Apple is still here - and they are still selling a decent range of computers.  Their market share for computers is small - but they are in no danger of losing that share anytime soon.  They have found a small, stable, profitable niche - and it's working out just fine for them.  Fans of Apple computers are amazingly loyal.  It has been said that if Apple was ever in danger of bankruptcy, they could file for religious status!  Every new product is awaited breathlessly and devoured by the faithful.  Compare that to the launch of Vista - with yawns and grumblings and fervent hopes that we can all cling on to XP until the storm blows over!  It's a totally different business situation than Beta vs VHS.  We have the bizarre situation where a large percentage of people who buy Windows PC's would really LOVE to switch to something else - but perceive (rightly or wrongly...and mostly wrongly) that they cannot.  Adherents of Mac and Linux mostly wouldn't switch if you paid them to.  It's a totally upside-down situation that's essentially been brought about by the abject failure of the market dynamic that caused VHS to beat Beta to allow Microsoft to crush Apple or vice-versa. SteveBaker (talk) 13:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't that obvious? If you don't try to anticipate your consumers' future needs, how are you going to plan your product development? When your consumers' "future" needs become their present needs, you'll be behind—your competitors have product offerings to meet those needs; you're busy playing catch up. --173.49.9.21 (talk) 12:09, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as a side note - rather than anticipating customers future needs it is far better (particularily for a high-end/lifestyle manufacturer like Apple) to create and define a customers needs. ie create a new market.83.100.250.79 (talk) 13:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Certainly a part of marketing is to try to "create" demand. Hence the concept of advertising. How else would anyone have made money selling "Pet Rocks"? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Buddhist wedding gift, prayer, toast
Good morning.

A couple of friends of mine are getting married. Both are huge fans of Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron. What would be a good wedding gift prayer, gift, and/or toast for two people who, though not Buddhist, espouse the principles of Buddhism? Maybe there are traditional gifts, prayers, or toasts. If you could advise me or know someone who could, please let me know. Thank you. Have a nice day! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 512mb (talk • contribs) 12:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, as far as gifts are concerned, prayer flags might be well thought of. --jpgordon:==( o ) 22:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Given the reference to Pema Chodron, I take it you mean "Westernised Tibetan Buddhism" and not the East Asian schools.
 * I suggest googling for "traditional Tibetan wedding ceremony" (rather than Buddhist). This page looks like it might have some useful information.
 * Wedding and marriage-related traditions in a Buddhist culture are likely to be geographically, rather than religiously, specific, since (non-Tibetan) Buddhism (though modern day Tibetan Buddhism is increasingly adopting some of these values) -- advocates celibacy very strongly, and traditionally (non-Tibetan) Buddhist monks and nuns play no role in weddings and marraige-related ceremonies at all. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only Buddhist wedding I've been to was a complicated Zen one in Oakland. I gave the couple one of the things they'd signed up for at Macy's, and a few of us got together to fill a Red Envelope.  Good wedding, good tea ceremony afterwards, great banquet afterwards.  Everybody seemed happy.

PhGustaf (talk) 06:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Fast Food Obesity in China vs North America
On my recent trip to China, I stopped by at several American fast food restaurants such as McDonald and KFC. After surveying the the people inside the restaurants, I noticed that all of them were very thin and far from what we in NA would call "overweight." This holds true for most of the people I see on the streets too.

Surely this must be a genetic difference between Orientals and North Americans right? If so, why are Orientals, on average, smaller - in terms of both height and body mass - than the average North American? Is their ability to not gain weight after eating junk food a result of a fast metabolism or is there something else in play? Acceptable (talk) 15:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That fast food is available in China does not imply that Chinese eat fast food as often as, or in the same quantity as, Americans. It also doesn't consider whether the menu at a Chinese McDonald's is nutritionally equivalent to the same in the US.  I'd look for much simpler reasons for obesity rates before jumping to genetic differences. &mdash; Lomn 15:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with lomn here. Could be a matter of the Americans eat fast food 20 times a month vs the Chinese at 1 time a month, or it could be a matter of exercise.  I would not believe that it is genetic unless there were some scientific studies showing support instead of just looking at a small group of people and not knowing 95% of the variables.  Googlemeister (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The easiest way to get an idea of whether or not it is genetic would be to look at people of oriental descent living in the US. You can't rule out cultural differences even when people live in the same country, but it is far better than comparing people living in different countries. If there is significant obesity in Chinese-Americans then that pretty much rules out a genetic explanation (the lack of significant obesity wouldn't confirm that is was genetic, though). As for height, that's a combination of genetics and diet (and maybe some other environmental factors), I believe. There is a discussion of the subject here. --Tango (talk) 15:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, that would be the best way. However, while exercise (ie walking to driving ratio) may be closer, I think it's very common for even 2nd generation Chinese people to eat largely Chinese-style meals at home in North America, so I think the error in a random sampling would be pretty systematic.  I think the best way to do it would be to study adopted Asian babies, raised in North America with no real connection to Asian culture, but I'm not sure if you could get a large enough sample size to get a lot of confidence, and even this data may be skewed by more "hippie do gooders" adopting Chinese babies than "average Americans".  TastyCakes (talk) 16:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A number of studies on NZ Asian migrants have suggested obesity is a big problem   . Bear in mind this will potentially include East Asian, South East Asian and South Asians. And the reasons are likely to be more complicated then just diet Nil Einne (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 62000+ scholarly articles were found by Google - there's no shortage of research into ethnicity and obesity. Cardiology research journals seem to have a lot of useful information: Fast food and obesity in China seems to specifically address your question.  Fast food, automobiles, television and obesity epidemic in Chinese children also seems to sum the subject up.  From these articles, and the sources they cite, you can probably deep-dive and find all kinds of statistics research.  "In Beijing, 27.8% of children surpass the standard weight guidelines. By the end of 2000, the obesity rate of male students in Beijing reached 15%, doubling that of 1990 and approaching that of developed countries."  Your cursory glance at one or two restaurants is not a scientific study - as a single anecdote, it is virtually useless in estimating a population trend.  Nimur (talk) 16:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I saw somewhere that American Big Macs are bigger and saltier than anyone else's. Hm. Vimescarrot (talk) 16:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean this Big Mac? Nil Einne (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I like how the British Big Mac has over twice the sodium of the US one but makes up less of the recommended daily intake. Apparently the UK government are bigger fans of salt.  TastyCakes (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems to me to be a European thing. Well except for the French, but they always have to be different Nil Einne (talk) 19:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you saying French food isn't salty? I think at least that the British stereotype French food as very salty (as opposed to being bland, which is a stereotype of British food). AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Neuschwanstein
How many rooms are in Neuschwanstein and what was its cost to construct and decorate? Googlemeister (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * And here I thought you were a Googlemeister. Googling "Neuschwanstein Castle cost" yields this link, which claims that Ludwig II built it on credit, and his heirs paid it back; the cost through 1886, when Ludwig and the psychiatrist who declared him insane were found drowned, was apparently 6,180,047 Goldmarks.  Our article says 14 rooms were completed at the time of Ludwig's death, and this travel guide link says the guided tour is of "the 17 rooms that were finished".  Not the most clear or definitive reference, but it may be sufficient?  Tempshill (talk) 16:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I was looking to see how many unfinished rooms there are. I interpret unfinished as not having decorations installed, or is the definition of unfinished mean there are not any walls in the rest of the place?  Googlemeister (talk) 18:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that's the number of rooms that were decorated, judging from the size of it there would be 17 rooms just for servants quarters at least.83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I was going to accuse you of not doing your own research - but it's not easy to find - unless you are a genius (like me) and realise that typing "Neuschwanstein floor plan" into google gives the answer almost immediately eg http://randwulf.com/hogwarts/castle.html
 * I leave it to you to count the rooms.
 * Maybe this is good too http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=241515
 * And the obligatory lego links
 * 83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Bravo! Tempshill (talk) 06:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Royal Gun Works
I have a Royal Gun Works double barrel 12 gauge shotgun #PF1212 and would like to know the approx. year it was manufactured. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aidendevin (talk • contribs) 16:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A post in this chat thread states that it was made in Belgium by Anciens Établissements Pieper, a company that made guns from 1905 to 1957. That does not narrow it down for you much, I imagine.  The Bluebook of Gun Values may help you; it's $5 used (plus shipping) through Amazon's service, or you could probably find it at a library.  Tempshill (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

question about poker
In 5 card draw poker with wild cards, which is better, a royal flush or 5 of a kind? Googlemeister (talk) 20:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure surprises me that a "googlemeister" couldn't find this faster than asking us. --jpgordon:==( o ) 20:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * See here for a discussion of the issues involved in ranking hands with wild cards. --Tango (talk) 20:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Or just see List of poker hands. "Normally casino draw poker variants use a joker, and thus the best possible hand is five of a kind Aces, or A♥ A♦ A♣ A♠ J. In lowball, the joker plays as the lowest card not already in the hand." PhGustaf (talk) 02:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Probable law sentence for fanfiction character
Please note that this is not a real scenario, the character involved is a character in a fanfiction: The character has been found guilty of hacking into government files and reading Top Secret documents. I want to give him a reasonable sentence, but have nothing to base it off of. What would be a reasonable sentence? (it's at the end of the story, so don't worry about story convenience.)--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 21:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Gary McKinnon apparently faces a prison term of up to 45 years for something fairly similar. BBC 94.168.184.16 (talk) 22:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * (ec) Gary McKinnon, who is accused of the "biggest military hack of all time", recently lost his attempt to avoid extradition and now faces up to 70 years in prison if convicted. &mdash; Lomn 22:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * What country is he being tried in? We can't answer this kind of question if you don't supply such key details. --Tango (talk) 22:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably death or life in quite a few countries. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's America. Sorry, should have mentioned that. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 01:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Another questions for you to help us is 1) what year/era is this taking place? Is it during a time of "cold war" or other real or imagined conflict?  2) What country/agency did the character betray the US to?  Russia?  China?  Cuba?  Israel?  Nazi Germany?  Japan?  Torkmann (talk) 01:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The OP never mentioned betrayal, just reading classified documents. In the US there isn't an official secrets act, or anything like it, so I doubt the classification is relevant. The crime would be breaking into a federal building/computer system, I don't know what sentence that carries. (I think the sentences being suggested for McKinnon are because there were multiple infractions, it is a few years for each computer hacked into.) --Tango (talk) 02:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Classification is probably most relevant here for sentencing purposes. Breaking into the Department of Transportation and downloading minutes of their meetings is probably not going to be punished as severely as breaking into the CIA and downloading names of agents. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, are you using "top secret" in the generic sense or in the specific sense? Also note that US government classification usually falls into two categories: Department of Energy clearance, and Department of Defense clearance; there will probably be different rules regarding these.  Lots of other information is "restricted" or subject to access control, too.   Accessing secret information can be punished by anything ranging from a metaphorical wrist-slap to a harsh prison term, depending on many factors, including the actual information; the intent of the perpetrator; etc.  This WikiSource link seems to provide information on the legislation behind the scenes: they say that violations may result in "Sanctions may include reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions in accordance with applicable law and agency regulation." Nimur (talk) 05:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Torkman, it's modern day, exactly as modern day currently is. No imaginary wars have been added. Nimur, the governmental files described a military project being kept hidden from the public involving genetic engineering on animals. The character is a normal citizen, with no governmental rank or job. (He's also a minor character, and I want the sentence to get him out of the picture for the rest of the story.) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 16:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would think somewhere between 20-50 years would be appear to be appropriate. Googlemeister (talk) 16:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Look up the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. You'll need to know two things. First the crime, and second the circumstances for the guidelines. You obviously can make up any of those. The only other variable is judicial discretion, but if you want a realistic yardstick, the sentencing guidelines are where you start. The statutory limits are not useful in most cases. Shadowjams (talk) 04:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)