Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 December 19

= December 19 =

Rib it.

 * I asked a serious question recently about whether British POW's continued to receive their Service Pay whilst incarcerated by foreign captors - and received a response (amongst other more intelligent responses)from Baseball saying RIBIT. I am English and have a degree in British English but admit to not knowing what RIBIT means. It sounds like the sound a cartoon animal character such as a grasshopper might make but, being unfamiliar with those characters and sounds I am left at a loss as to Baseball's intentions. Could someone here, perhaps more expert in the vagaries of the Engish Language than myself, please elucidate? Thanks. 92.21.131.118 (talk) 00:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * His response was to a user with "Froggie" as part of the name, and "ribbit" is a common transliteration of the sound a frog makes. Whether the response was supposed to be more than that, only that editor can say.  I hope the well-intentioned and useful responses were helpful to you.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  00:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That, combined with the thought that "to rib" is to make fun of. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:43, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Fine - and thanks for the explanation. But I haven't yet managed to see the "funny" part. 92.8.216.4 (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * A link to the archive might be useful. Your contributions don't have the edit... Vimescarrot (talk) 11:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still on the page, just search "British POW". -- LarryMac  | Talk  11:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the club 92.8, a lot of people have difficulty in seeing the 'funny' side of Bugs's comments. Caesar&#39;s Daddy (talk) 14:29, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comedy is always a matter of individual taste. I don't find South Park funny, but some others do. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose there's no sense pointing out that people can choose to not watch South Park whereas people on the RefDesk apparently have no choice in whether to be exposed to your humour or not? Matt Deres (talk) 22:14, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No one forces either you or me to read anything. It is freely chosen. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You knew what he meant. APL (talk) 01:53, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If Comedy Central somehow starts embedding South Park into the reference desk, then you may use them as an excuse by comparison. APL (talk) 00:07, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This discussion doesn't belong here - if you have complaints about an editor, please express them on the "discussion" page for the Ref Desk, where I'm sure you'll get sympathetic treatment. SteveBaker (talk) 02:48, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

travel from England to France
Considering both convenience and cost, generally what’s the best way to get from London to Caen? The Eurostar via Paris, or to Portsmouth and then by ferry? (Or some other alternative?) —Mathew5000 (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Definitely the Eurostar via Paris is the most convenient route. From what I've been able to find online, ferries between Portsmouth and Ouistreham (Caen's port) take 7 hours just for the crossing.  Then there is the 1.5 to 2 hour trip from London Waterloo to Portsmouth, waiting time, and the shuttle bus to take you the 12 miles from the ferry terminal in Ouistreham to the town of Caen. (The shuttle bus runs only during the day time. At night, you face a €40 taxi fare.)  This easily adds up to a 10-11 hour trip.  The price would be about £87 single without the taxi fare from the port to Caen.  Eurostar gets you from London (St. Pancras) to Caen in just over 6 hours, including a transfer by metro between stations in Paris.  The price if you need to travel tomorrow would be €228 (£202).  However, if you can book a couple of weeks in advance (outside of the Christmas-New Years travel season), the Eurostar/SNCF single fare drops to €65.50 (£58.10).  If you are strapped for cash, need to travel soon, and don't mind an 11-hour journey, then you should take the ferry.  However, if you are planning your trip in advance, there's no reason not to take the train.  (By the way, I compared cheap airfares from Luton to Paris CDG.  The total price (including transfers to and from the airports) ends up being similar to the train, but the travel time is more like 8-9 hours because of all the transfers and waiting.)  Marco polo (talk) 01:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely agree. Have made the trip many times and, with a car, the ferry is the best option. But otherwise the train every time. You may find better fares if you book your trip in two sections. (British Rail fares are horrendus. e.g. I came from Montpellier on the south coast of France 1st class to Lille (4 hours).  Changed to Eurostar.  The second class Eurostar for a one-hour journey was more expensive than the French rail's 4 hour 1st class!  Depending on age SNCF have some good Travel Card and discount offers. Check out their site http://www.sncf.fr/en_EN/flash/.  Have a great time.Froggie34 (talk) 15:31, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done the trip by ferry, and it can be very cheap; the ferry often sells seat-only tickets for around £10 return, and the shuttle bus to Caen is also cheap. It is, as stated above, a long journey.  While taking the overnight ferry means you can sleep through it, that's not very comfortable, unless you pay extra for a cabin.  I believe that some sort of fast ferry is due on the route from Spring, but I suspect that the prices might be correspondingly higher. Warofdreams talk 18:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much for the detailed answers! That will be helpful. —Mathew5000 (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course if you were planning a trip this Christmas ... However it's a risk you had whatever method you chose Nil Einne (talk) 12:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Mike Krzyzewski
Does coach k wear a toupee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.194.75 (talk) 00:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Just while traveling from England to France. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By Eurostar or ferry? --Anon, 01:20 UTC, December 19, 2009.

Fire Extinguishers
1. What are the gases available for clean agent type portable fire extinguishers? 2. What are their ODP level? 3. Are they useful for all type fire extinguishers? 4. Has they got any approval EN, BIS etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.212.91.246 (talk) 04:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Our articles on fire extinguisher and ozone depletion potential should give you a start on your essay, but you will need to do some more research.   D b f i r s   07:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

King Farouk's tortoise?
A recently created article in German Wikipedia states that King Farouk's former pet tortoise died at the age of 270 in Cairo's zoo 2006. This was mentioned in German media the 7th/8th April 2006, e.g.. As I could not find any English source to confirm even any detail of this story, I deem it to be a belated April Fool's hoax to which German media were taken in. Can anyone help with this? --KnightMove (talk) 12:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Are the German media somehow unreliable? Why would an english source be needed.  What is magical about the English language that its sources are trusted more than sources written in other languages?  -- Jayron  32  19:19, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not able to do research in Arab, and English is the most-used international language, isn't it? How likely might it be that an event in Egypt is reported by German media, but not by English ones? --KnightMove (talk) 03:59, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't smell right, that's for sure. According to our article on Darwin's supposed pet tortoise, the oldest tortoise lived to the age of 188, meaning that King Farouk's tortoise magically passed that total by nearly a century with nobody noticing. Of course, that article is then contradicted by our article on longest-lived organisms, though the claim for 250 years in the case of Adwaita has some serious holes in it as well. Any claim to suddenly being the longest lived anything needs serious citations for believability. Matt Deres (talk) 00:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

face skin
Well thats no medical advise i need as such at all. But i would just like to know something realted to the face skin in general. We have the winter season in my country and m afraid always to wash my face with the cold water. i always use a lil bit more warm than the luke warm water. Will that effect my skin and give me wrinkles. Becaue somebody told me to wash face always with the cold water and that keeps the skin wrinkle free. Expect an honest opinion..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 14:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC) (Question placed in separate section. Caesar&#39;s Daddy (talk) 14:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC))

Can somebody tell me that where my question is moved ? In which seprate section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 16:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't worry it's here! It now has its own title and can be edited separately. Now to answer your question. Cold will tighten and tone the muscles and tissues of the face, and this may be where the idea came from regarding it prevents wrinkles. However, on its own cold water will not adequately clean the face, even if you use soap, and so hotter water is recommended. Some people recommend to clean the face with water as hot as you can stand on your face, but then to splash cold water on the face to tighten the tissues. Personally I think wrinkles are more a product of genetics and environment: if you smoke, for example, you will get wrinkles regardless of what you put on your face. One sure way to get wrinkles is to worry, so do what you think suits your face and stop worrying! --TammyMoet (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wrinkles are going to come with age, so the only sure method of avoiding them is to to die young and leave a good-looking corpse. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanx "TammyMoet". I don know who you are but thanx for the advise. I got it now. I dont smoke though... but there are lot of tensions i have right now regarding my work so i think thats could be the reason and yes i undsnd that as my age would grow i would get wrinkles but who needs the untimely wrinkles. So thanx a lot...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 17:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Christmas
Where do the colors red and green come from for Christmas? --70.245.189.217 (talk) 15:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That was discussed at some length in one of the recent ref desk pages. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if you gave a reference to where this discussion is. 87.113.128.40 (talk) 16:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Or the OP could look for it. He won't learn anything if someone else does his work for him. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Or someone could show him how to do it. I typed the words 'christmas red green' into the Reference desk search box and got this result, I hope that helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.225.220 (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Name of a footwear
I forgot what it is called. It's something that you wear around your lower legs, sometimes over your boots, and sometimes secured using a strap, that prevents snow, insects, dirt etc. from getting into your boots or pant legs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.9.184 (talk) 16:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Gaiters. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 18:03, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --173.49.9.184 (talk) 19:13, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Could also be puttees. 89.243.188.42 (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And also Spats. 222.152.174.224 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC).

Do Androids Dream of...
Whilst reading a few questions back about King Farouk's tortoise, I was reminded of a quote printed at the front of some copies of Philip K Dick's book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. I rememeber it was something about a giant tortoise which was given to a king by Christopher Colombus(?) or something. Anyone know what this is or where I could find out online? Could even shed some light on the above question.91.109.225.220 (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears to be the quote at (this also appears in some apparent copyright violations of the entire novel online).  The tortoise was apparently given by Captain Cook. Warofdreams talk 18:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, see Tu'imalila.91.109.225.220 (talk) 19:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are into tortoises then another novel which includes one is À rebours by Huysmans. 89.243.188.42 (talk) 20:18, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Time to expand the List of fictional turtles (and tortoises). I also added the one from Momo. Felis cheshiri (talk) 12:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's just Turtles all the way down. SteveBaker (talk) 02:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Underwear
Alright, so I was watching this video, and my eyes couldn't help but be drawn to his undergarments, due to the fact that he made the mistake of wearing white underwear with white clothing, so therefore his underwear showed through the clothing (I can't believe his bandmates said nothing to him about his clothing choice, lol). Me and my friend were discussing what type of underwear he was wearing. She keeps insisting it's a thong, I said it ain't a thong unless it disappears into his ass. So who's right? --24.185.203.231 (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2009 (UTC) Oh, and in case it's too much work to sit through the whole video, you can fast forward to 1:45. --24.185.203.231 (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks like normal Briefs to me. Have to ask...what could he wear under white-clothing that wouldn't be a mistake? Seems of any colour white is the best one to go with (unless you're trying to make the pants stand out more). Similarly were he going 'commando' that video would be, well, not my kind of viewing ny156uk (talk) 23:40, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Nude or black underwear would have been a wiser choice, it would not have shown through (I'm a girl, I should know these things, and so should he, since he was gay), especially considering the material the outfit was made of (looked like spandex or lycra to me). Wearing white underwear with white clothes just highlights the undies, you have no idea how many times I've seen women make that mistake, particularly in the summertime. Of course, if he were going commando, well his bandmates would probably be too busy rolling on the floor laughing to play their instruments. On the other hand, he'd be displaying his glorious God-given assets (I could tell in the video he had a cute ass, among other things), and that would've made the performance much more enjoyable for me ;). --24.185.203.231 (talk) 23:58, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ignoring all the other stuff in your post, black underwear and white clothing will do nothing but show the black underwear, especially if the pants/whatever are tight and/or thin. Anyway, that could be considered a thong in a number of instances, but usually is probably not thin enough to be definitively called one.  Still, anal floss not a requirement. ~ Amory ( u  •  t  •  c ) 04:40, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Taking the fabric of the outfit he was wearing into question, you're right about that. Sorry if I was gushing a bit at the end of my last post. :) --24.189.85.202 (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There seems to be some agreement with 24 that flesh coloured may be better www.ehow.com/how_4464787_look-good-white-pants.html (blacklisted site) although not everyone agrees they're right even if they're writing for the same site www.ehow.com/how_4471780_choose-which-underwear-wear-under.html . I can't offer any much more from personal experience although it did occur to me flesh coloured may work better. According to those refs, black may work if you have fairly dark skin and I can buy that but Freddie Mercury wasn't really that dark so I'm not convinced black underwear would work well with any white fabric. And I'd definitely need stronger convincing that Rupert Grint for example should wear black underwear if he's wearing white. Nil Einne (talk) 15:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It might be a two-piece, with a seperate unitard and tights. The "underwear" could be where the two parts overlap. He is wearing the top back to front. 89.242.211.123 (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Home Alone Movies, and real-life
Just watched one of my christmas favourites Home Alone 2 (lost in New York) and got me thinking about how crazy the things the bad-guys get happening to them are. In the spirit of christmas, and appreciating this isn't ideally suited to the refdesk (hoping good-will will let it pass) i'm asking...What would be the likely real impact (healthwise) to an individual based on what they are subjected to (ignoring whether what happens is realistic or not). To get started some things that occur are
 * Happens to Marv
 * Electricuted with his hands on the taps
 * Falling 2 floors (walking through the door)
 * Bricks thrown from a 3 story building, hitting head
 * Happens to Harry
 * Head/hat set on fire, dunks head in bleach
 * Bag of tools drops on his head
 * Happens to both
 * Plumbing pipe (metal) smashes them in the face, knocking them down though a hole to the floor, then drops on them afterwards. ny156uk (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Any one of most of the items listed would likely either be fatal or cause devastating injury. This is Three Stooges style / cartoon style violence, where getting a skull-fracturing injury results in an "Ouch!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

 Sorry, yeah I kinda guessed, was hoping to add my comedy-fun home-alone high with a list of 'x broken bones, 2 heart-murmours, 70% burns on scalp etc. etc. rather than a general overall approach (though appreciate not really what the refdesk is for :-)) ny156uk (talk) 23:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Marv is probably dead from any of those. Harry probably has a bad concussion, maybe death. Boy, it would have been a different movie if Marv had just died early on. "We the court rule that the defendant, Kevin McCallister, had many other options to avail himself of before resorting to premeditated murder..." --Mr.98 (talk) 01:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Whilst I'm not advocating trying this, I would have thought it very unlikely that someone would die from electrocution in the USA. I've had a number of 240v shocks and am still here - I would think that 110v would make you jump, but is unlikely to kill you.  --Phil Holmes (talk) 17:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert either, but I think it makes a lot of difference whether the "path of least resistance" goes through your heart or spine. Current that goes in one finger and goes out through a different finger on the same hand is a lot less dangerous than current that goes in one hand and out the other. So the kind of electrical accident where you're fiddling with something with your hands and you brush your hand up against both contacts is much more survivable than the kind where you're standing in a bath-tub and touch one conductor of an exposed wire with your hand. APL (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think Harry would survive the traumas mentioned. It's surprisingly hard to kill somebody from a blow to the head unless the impact occurs in the region of the medulla oblongata (interfering with life support functions) or breaks the skull. The bleach might cause his death from skin cancer in later years, perhaps after early release from prison on the grounds of good behaviour and having shown remorse, which again would have been a very different movie. Felis cheshiri (talk) 12:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Bleach exposure would hardly cause skin cancer?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 14:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * "While the authors suggested that using these cleaning products may significantly increase the cancer risk, this conclusion appears to be hypothetical"... so no, probably not. (There was a recent scare about hydrogen peroxide hair bleach, too.) Felis cheshiri (talk) 16:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * With regard to the other methods of death, our article on Electric shock discusses the likelihood of death arising from this - it appears to suggest that common household electrics are not that likely to kill someone, although it is possible. The article on defenestration doesn't cover the likely effects of falling a couple of stories, but I'd suggest that it would depend on how you land, and on what - it might well lead to broken limbs rather than death. Warofdreams talk 17:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)