Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 December 30

= December 30 =

Childish oblivion?
I read an interesting article on Encyclopedia Dramatica that claims the name of certain things on wikipedia have been given to mock editors' supposed submission as slaves, drawing on their childish oblivion. Ex: Twinkle, Huggle, Sandbox. Why exactly are these childish terms used to describe these things on wikipedia? --William S. Saturn (talk) 00:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, sandbox can mean, among other things, a place drafts can be made in wet sand and easily erased,, so it seems appropriate enough. Twinkle was developed and (I presume) christened by AzaToth, and Huggle by Gurch; both are still active editors so you could always ask them where they got the names from.  I'd do it myself but I'm manacled to this oar.  Ka renjc 00:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The term 'Sandbox' has long been used in computer systems to denote a parallel but non-operational duplication of some or all functions and data, to be used for practising, that will not affect the main system. One example is found within the proprietory commercial database system Maximo. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Encyclopedia Dramatica is not a source of real information—it is intentionally false in order to be funny. (Sometimes it manages to actually be funny. Often it does not. Such is life.) Don't believe anything you read on it, as a rule. Anyway, "sandbox" was a pretty standard term long before Wikipedia for untested things (see Sandbox (software development)). --Mr.98 (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Encyclopedia Dramatica is like The Onion except not as funny, and a less reliable source for factual information. -- Jayron  32  01:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. Sandbox is so established as a term in computing that, given the local word for the child's toy is different here, it took me many years to realise that it was referencing that. Although the link to the kind you write on seems stronger. Doesn't seem like any infantalisation to me. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 19:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Plumbing
Why does my kitchen sink, upon being backed up, sometimes cough stuff up into my bathtub (located in the bathroom, of course), but my toilet never does that? I mean, certainly, toilet refuse ending up in my bathtub would be much less desirable, but why doesn't the plumbing allow for whatever impermissibility of transfer that exists between my toilet and tub similarly exist between my kitchen sink and my tub?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 05:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You might learn something by examining your plumbing. My guess is that your toilet has a closer connection to the sewer than your bathtub.  I agree that if discarded foodstuffs barf up into your bathtub it's better if they haven't been digested already. PhGustaf (talk) 05:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See this diagram and the tables on that page. Note that in the example figure, the toilet (W.C.) has a separate, large-diameter (three-inch) pipe connecting it to the waste 'stack' (major vertical drainage pipe, three- or four-inch diameter).  In comparison, one can get away with narrower pipe (two- or even one-and-a-half-inch) for sinks and tubs, and these other fixtures can often share pipe connections to the stack.  If the sink drain is higher in elevation than the tub drain, and if a blockage occurs in one of these shared drain pipes, then wastewater can flow down the sink drain and come back up in your tub.  The narrower pipe also makes such blockages more likely.
 * The exact configuration of your plumbing will of course vary depending on local rules, date of construction, and contractor compliance with building codes, but that gives a rough idea of the principles at work. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Similar to the diagram above, but the sink and tub drains are possibly a joint drain that is higher in elevation than the toilet drain (in the major drainage). I guess you have possibly a drain clog above the toilet drain.Nevill Fernando (talk) 18:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!  DRosenbach  ( Talk 05:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * In Britain you have seperate pipes for waste water and sewage, which avoids sewage coming up the plughole if the sewer pipe is blocked, which I see can happen in the American system, particularly with its narrow pipes. 92.24.83.55 (talk) 15:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I have a Melvin Vaniman panaromic photo
I have a Melvin Vaniman panaromic photo of somewhere in San Francisco, the scene is of a small town in a hot springs area, I think the date on the photo is 1902 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.186.116.157 (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * And what might your question be? If you want us to identify the town, you're going to have to give us more information, or provide a link to the photo.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   07:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * There are no hot springs in San Francisco itself. The best-known and probably the oldest hot-springs resort nearby is Calistoga, California.  Marco polo (talk) 14:28, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe the OP could add it to Wikimedia Commons. Sounds like an interesting photo. Some panoramic photos were taken by special wide format view cameras. Later ones had a rotating camera, so it was possible for a speedy individual to appear at both ends of a line of people. Edison (talk) 02:53, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

basketball and height
i've noticed that most basketball players are tall, way tall..... so, i just wondered if by jumping i can increase my height. can i?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.133.198 (talk) 13:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, no. Our article on human height discusses the factors which will govern your height.  Height can also be increased (in many cases) through growth hormone treatment or (more drastically) limb-lengthening surgery.  There's a saying among basketball recruiters: "You can't teach tall." TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * (Edit Conflict) You seem to be making the common mistake of confusing Cause and Effect (about which see our article Causality). Basketball players do not become markedly taller because they jump a lot, they become basketball players mostly because they are already tall (compared to their age cohort) and can jump well. The same selection effect occurs in some other sports, some of which are mentioned in the next link.
 * That said, a combination of exercise, good diet and good healthcare does positively influence height, as mentioned in our article Human height (see Section 2 - Determinants of growth and height). Since basketball players are athletes who by definition exercise and almost certainly have a healthy diet and (if professional) good healthcare, they must benefit from these factors, but no more than any other non-jumping athletes, or non-athletes who follow a similar Lifestyle.
 * In summary, jumping may well form part of a more general Physical exercise regime, which if followed and supported with a good diet (and adequate healthcare) may well help someone who is still growing (i.e. a child or adolescent) to grow somewhat taller (maybe by a couple of inches or so?) than they would otherwise have done so, and may add a much smaller amount to an already fully grown person, but solely jumping, on its own, would not have much effect. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:42, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

The trouble is, to put it in layman's language, that your height increases when you jump. But decreases when you land. Tough!90.4.116.70 (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * As commented to an earlier question, a way to be taller is always try to be seen emerging from low doorways. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

It's worth noting that while you're right that most basketball players are tall, not all of them are. Skill is an important factor. If you're of average, or just above average, height and are very skillful, you'll still be an asset to a team. Grutness...wha?  23:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Muggsy Bogues. --Trovatore (talk) 03:23, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Though not in that league - in either sense - Paul Henare is under 6 foot as well. Grutness...wha?  23:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Parkers TV series on video to buy
I have been searching to buy all the series of the parkers starring -Monique. Can you help me to find out how I can. My email is Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.251.23.11 (talk) 16:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you want them to be permanently removed from the page history, please email [mailto:oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org]. --ColinFine (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Baseball pitches
What is the highest number of pitches thrown in one single at bat to one player? Googlemeister (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Baseball historian Bill James wrote about an outfielder named Roy Thomas who supposedly got a full count then proceeded to foul off 22 pitches while playing for the Phillies back in the 1900s. Pitch-by-pitch recordkeeping only began in the 1980s, so Thomas' record is considered to be unofficial. More recently, Alex Cora fouled off 14 pitches before homering. Wikipedia's article claims this is the third-longest at-bat since the recordkeeping started, but the source that is provided does not mention this fact at all. Xenon54 / talk / 17:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, a Google search yields many results like:, , , and . All of which seem to be just about as reliable as the next.  Dismas |(talk) 17:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, this phenomenon has never been kept as an "official" record, and prior to keeping track of individual pitches, any supposed records would necessarily be anecdotal. Luke Appling was famous for fouling off pitches until he got one he liked. In Strikeout it mentions that a foul bunt on the third strike was not considered to be a strike until 1894. Without checking to be sure, I would speculate that was a result of the old Baltimore Orioles exploiting loopholes in the rules in order to gain an advantage. They were the kings of the "inside game", what we now call "small ball". Also, the pitching distance had been moved back 5 feet in 1893, which probably gave batters more time to control a bunt attempt, and potentially they could hit foul bunts all afternoon. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Current President of the United States of America, Barack Obama.
i have a question, what did that child say to President Obama? --Jaoa9103 (talk) 17:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You are going to have to supply more information on what child you are talking about for us to give you a reasonable answer. Googlemeister (talk) 17:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That boy while Obama was getting off stage the boy "said Why do people hate u mr president!@? Its on news articles... --Jaoa9103 (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you point us to at least one of those articles? I've tried various combinations of "Obama boy stage" and various other words but don't see anything about any boy talking to Obama.  Was this at some event which would help with the search?  Dismas |(talk) 17:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That could have been said about any President, including Washington. Obama's answer, whatever it was, would be more interesting than the question. It likely would have been along the lines of, "Son, it comes with the territory." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This is the boy's question and Obama's answer. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * He gave the kid plenty to think about. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Reluctant though I am to cite Vanity Fair, the President said "That’s what I'm talking about. Terrence, I appreciate that." . Tevildo (talk) 19:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC) . . . . and a whole lot more!! Richard Avery (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

The OP asked what the boy said, not what Obama replied. The sound is weak but I think I hear "Why do people hate you (when) they're supposed to love you?". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * True - I would transcribe it as "I have to say - why do people hate you, and why - do you think they're supposed to love you - and - God is love - and..." Tevildo (talk) 02:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does this kid think we need to love our nation's leaders? I bet most politicians would settle for  50% +1 of the people tolerating them. Googlemeister (talk) 14:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's part of the point Obama was making to the kid. One way to look at it, though, is that we should love our leaders, but it should be "tough love". A couple of comments from Harry Truman come to mind. One is the well-known, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Obama made it clear to the kid that he can stand the heat - and told the kid he thought he could stand the heat too. The other thing Truman said was, "With criticism comes progress." That one can be harder to swallow. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Wii Backups
I have Sony DVD+R's am I able to use them for PLAYABLE Wii Backups or do I have to uses DVD-R's? --Melab±1 &#9742; 19:18, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Neither. Wii software is copy protected.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wii games aren't stored on regular DVDs anyway. See Nintendo_optical_disc. J.delanoy gabs adds  22:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Called as a witness
This may tread too close to "legal advice", so I won't cry in my soup if it gets removed. I've been subpoena'd as a witness in an insurance case. Arson of an empty dwelling, step out of the house at 4AM to see a 40-foot wall of flames right across the road, attended the scene, checked it out the next day, just normal suburban stuff. :) The case is about whether the dwelling was occupied and my testimony will be "no indication at all that it was". My problem is that saying this will take a day out of my life and I get the princely sum of $20 for taking a day off work. The insurance investigator mentioned in passing during our initial interview "oh, you can get a lot more than that if you do it right".

I'm not really looking for opinions, I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience (and has email enabled) or if anyone can point to decent web resources that discuss possible strategies to get more than the bare minimum compensation for losing a day's work. I'm aware that different jurisdictions may have different ways, Canada is best, or any common-law country too. Thanks! Franamax (talk) 21:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you not ask him? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  22:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Be glad you're getting $20. I was recently a witness in a wrongful dismissal case (Ontario, Canada) and got some measly sum which was meant to cover transport to the courthouse. I believe the cheque was for less than $2 (yeah, two dollars), essentially enough to cover bus fare in the city. More helpfully, I'd follow Kittybrewster's suggestion. Matt Deres (talk) 22:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * At the organisation I used to work for in the UK, I had to account for my time on a billing system. As well as all the normal project-related numbers, there were special numbers to be used for things like vacation time, sickness and jury service.  When I took a couple of days off as a witness in a court case, I recorded that time as "Jury service" and got a full day's pay from my employer.  I was also able to claim expenses from the Crown Prosecution Service (though they were not happy that I chose to drive the 250 km to the court and back, rather than take the very inconvenient public transport).  As it happens, my testimony was not required after all - the accused eventually changed his plea to guilty, and us witnesses spent two days hanging around the court drinking coffee.  So, maybe my employer was generous, but it is probably worth asking your employers' admin/HR people what provision they make for jury service and whether your court appearence can be counted as that.  Astronaut (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Do your duty, and be glad you live somewhere with a decent court system. Some day you might need someone to turn up and give evidence for you. DuncanHill (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Dude, he's not trying to get out of doing his duty, he's just trying not to get completely shafted for a day's wages (or vacation). The bailiffs, clerks, lawyers, and judge all get paid to be there, why force him to take a loss for something he didn't do? Franamax, a thought occurs to me that if your testimony is really that straightforward, perhaps the court would allow you just to file an affidavit? No harm in asking, anyway. Matt Deres (talk) 00:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * (ec) Only you (the OP) can know whether this is just a case of wishing for more money or if the "day out of your life" will cause you material loss that is significantly more than $20. If you have a convincing argument for the latter, propose to the insurance company that instead of attending court you wish to provide a signed affadavit. Whether that will be acceptable will depend on factors that we cannot know, such as whether it is important to the case (whose?) that you be available in court for cross examination, or whether the insurance company see a benefit in knowing in advance exactly what your statement will be. However I advise not negotiating a higher fee with the investigator because in a contested case doubt will be cast on the probity of a witness who seems to be attending for personal gain. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hard to imagine any job (much less a specialized one) that didn't have at least $20 in opportunity costs for a lost day of work. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * At least some Australian courts will re-imburse lost income. Here's the claim form for the Magistrates' Court of Tasmania, and here's the relevent page from the Federal Court of Australia's web site. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure where else to go...
I've tried all the search engines that I know. I'm looking for a place where I can fully read all of this doujinshi, but I can only find like five pages of it total. Here's the link to the title and author of the thing, but this is all I got. I actually have no idea whether or not Wikipedia is a good place to ask this, or if this is even in the appropriate section,  but I've hit a dead end. Can anyone help? <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 23:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The link you gave just goes to a main page, not a specific page on anything. I'm an "assume good faith" kind of guy, but I have to wonder why you wanted us to go to the site rather than just giving us the author and title you were looking for up front. In any case, unless the piece has been released to the public domain, we're not going to be able to help you. Have you tried Amazon or other online bookseller? Matt Deres (talk) 23:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In fairness to the OP, he did supply the URL for the title page of the publication he's talking about. The website redirects to a licence agreement interstitial webpage before taking you to the address he provided. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you, then. <(^_^)>Pokegeek42 (talk) 23:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, the title is "Cherry", the author is Kobayashi Yugo, and the publication date is 2008-08-15. I'm afraid I don't know how one would go about purchasing a copy, though. Tevildo (talk) 00:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You may find help at www.manganews.net that has a forum and a search engine (supposed to cover 49 publishers). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:27, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Looking at the very page you linked, Pokegeek, it has no publisher and is found in no collections. It looks like maybe it's a fanwork distributed at a convention. As such, your options are:
 * 1) Find it for sale somewhere like ebay, assuming one of the few people who has a copy wants to sell it and chooses to do so somewhere you can see and afford it.
 * 2) Find it uploaded somewhere: more likely to be available to torrent than hosted somewhere. This would most likely be illegal, and you would have to take all the usual risks you take with torrenting (potential viruses, malware, etc).
 * 3) Join an online community which is likely to have people who own a copy. (Is there a community associated with the site where you read 5 pages?) Ask around to find someone who does, then see if they will lend or sell you theirs. You can probably increase your chances if you also own something they would want to borrow or buy, but in any case this is probably your best bet.
 * You'll probably want to find an online community to discuss this stuff with anyway. I'm sure you don't need to be told about web safety, but I'd be remiss not to give the compulsory recap: don't give out your real name, address, phone number, city, school, etc. Don't upload or link to photos of yourself or your friends. Don't meet up with people you've 'met' online until you're a bit older, and even then meet up in a crowded place with lots of witnesses.
 * Probably best not to tell people how old you are either, although they'll be able to approximate it if they're paying attention. Depending on the fandom, you might even want to keep your gender under wraps until you've snooped around the community a little. Have fun! The internet is one of the best things to happen to fandom. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 01:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing that you can get a copy on this site for 600 yen, but you'd need to know some Japanese to navigate the site. Marco polo (talk) 01:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you could go to sites like onemanga or manganovel. They have a big collection of stuff there... 117.194.225.138 (talk) 06:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Wow. That helps a lot. Thanks, guys. <(^_^)>Pokegeek42 (talk) 15:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Mangafox.com is another site you might like. 195.35.160.133 (talk) 12:19, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Martin.