Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 February 8

= February 8 =

Tax question
In the United States, and in my state, how can I find out if I owe need to report my income for an employer from which I did not receive a W2 ? I did not receive it because I made under $600 from this employer. However, if I report this money, it will affect my tax-back credit, at least in my state. Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you think it might help if you said what you state was, rather than just saying "my state" repeatedly? We can't really help anyway since it will undoubtedly depend on the exact nature of your circumstances. You need to seek professional advice. --Tango (talk) 00:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Was the income "earned"? If yes, you are required to report it, without exception and in all states. DOR (HK) 07:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Hauling stuff from the US
Hello RefDeskers. As I've mentioned in another question, there's been a death in my family. I will be one of the heirs/beneficiaries of the estate and there are a couple of things I would appreciate some assistance with. My portion of the physical estate will not be large; mostly books and a few odds and ends. I don't expect the dollar value to be very large, but they will have sentimental value.

First question: what agency or type of person do I need to deal with in terms of bringing this material across the border? Canada customs? US customs? I live in Canada, but the estate is in the US (St. Louis). Does the fact that it is estate goods have any bearing on how I need to proceed? Do I need a lawyer? A broker? What kind? I'm willing to pay whatever taxes or duties are required, but no more than I have to. I understand you can't give professional advice; I'd like to know what professional I need!

Second question: the estate has not yet been officially portioned out to anyone, but I would expect my share to take up the space of two or three suitcases or large boxes. It will be fairly heavy (but durable) due to it mostly being books. What's the best way to transport that kind of thing? Will the airline have some kind of policy or extra charge for bringing that stuff as luggage - or would that kind of thing not be allowed at all? Would I be better off packing it up and sending it through parcel post with UPS or something? Anecdotal evidence is probably okay here. :-)

Sorry this is kind of a laundry list of questions, but any help for any of them would be great. Matt Deres (talk) 01:13, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You may need some professional advice here. I would talk to a border broker about Canada customs and paperwork whatever method you use for shipping and UPs to get a weight-based quote. Neither of these is likely to charge for information. If the US is interested, it will be in any estate tax that might be payable. You might need to talk to the estate's lawyer about this, and about any paperwork you might need. I doubt, but cannot say for certain, US Customs will be involved. Canada Customs wants to know the value of anything, including gifts, that is brought into the country. I don't know if the proceeds from an estate are considered gifts, but it seems likely. Whether there is duty payable on used books, apart from personal import limits, I cannot say. You can get in touch with them and ask. Once again, there is no charge for information. The Canada Border Services Agency, which appears to be a government department, has a section on its |web site called "Additional Information" that gives you telephone numbers.
 * My current experience is that the airline will charge, and charge a lot. Books are heavy, and there are limits to what any one bag can weigh. There is a new policy that allows you to pre-pay for overweight/oversize luggage on a per-bag, flat-rate basis. See |here for details. Other airlines will be similar. ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 02:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

My condolences on your loss. Regarding the duties and taxes that might be payable on importing your inheritance into Canada, the CBSA has a publication here about importing inherited goods. It suggests that most goods inherited by a resident of Canada from a non-resident can be imported free of duty and taxes. You don't need to use a customs broker and it would probably be easier (and cheaper) to do the importation yourself. You'll need a copy of the will and the death certificate as well as a list of all the goods and their values; the document I linked above has details on what you need to do.

For bringing it in, I'd look seriously at paying the extra baggage fee with an airline rather than going with a courier for this sort of thing. Most couriers doing cross-border business have their own in-house customs brokers that they use for imports and these can charge very steep rates - even for goods that are entering tax and duty free. Using the post office would be better as they charge a very low flat fee for processing imports.

If you decide to mail them back rather than bring them in yourself, you should still declare them when you arrive as goods to follow. You can present all the necessary paperwork at that time. - EronTalk 04:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Good catch on finding that specific memorandum, Eron. ៛ BL ៛ (talk) 02:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I used to work at CBSA HQ and I just knew there'd be a D-memo that applied. - EronTalk 02:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the info, guys. Much appreciated! Matt Deres (talk) 16:15, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Check out the "Bound Printed Matter" parcel rate of the USPS. Since you said the items have mostly sentimental value you don't need the "added security" you buy with UPS and the like.  You can mail up to 15 lbs per parcel as books and that may be cheaper than excess baggage charges.  Those can be exorbitant! .  If you think you can get it into the usual luggage weight allowance for the airline and class your ticket's going to be for, just pack your clothes into mail parcels and your inheritance in your suitcases. (Most airlines no longer transport cardboard boxes.)  You might be able to find a big moving company who frequently do moves to Canada and will take your boxes for a small fee.  They'll want to have some paperwork for customs since you are not accompanying the goods.  A proforma invoice will usually do.  Good luck and my sympathy for your loss. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 04:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

How do i pick up a hooker?
You guys probably cant give advice, so could you please recommend a website or two. I dont really want to pick up a hooker, it's just a seedy city curiosity Ive always had. Is there a website out there that talks about things like this? The grimy, innercity, unwritten laws. Is there a website with detailed discussions and pictures of mid '70s New York City/Times Square?--TinyTonyyy (talk) 01:28, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Just go there; they'll find you. (Or an undercover vice cop will.) B00P (talk) 01:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And we have an article! Well, it's only a stub, and unreferenced at that and North Americans might not recognize the spelling of the title, but "kerb" or "curb", the activity is the same. ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 02:02, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, it's not difficult to find/pick up streetwalkers, if that's your desire. Just walk through the red light area of your town (if you don't know where this is, there are probably places on the web where you can look it up) by yourself in the evening and more likely than not, you'll be approached and asked if you're looking for a good time. If not, loiter for a while. Hookers are not generally shy. Depending on where you live, there may also be loads of tart cards in the public phoneboxes. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 02:10, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There are plenty of ways to meet a sex worker. Craigslist is one way of getting the job done, but a prospective customer will probably have a smaller chance of getting ripped off or getting less (or more) than they bargained for with a reputable escort service. If you're in a major city, finding one -- or checking their rep -- shouldn't be terribly difficult, thanks to the miracle of Google. Call girls are also an option, but picking them at random may not be all that different from the Craigslist experience. Or, depending on the city and country, one could just cruise certain street corners at a suitable hour; chances are that if there are people hanging out there and checking out the cars as they go by, they're not there just to enjoy the hustle of city life. That's not high-end, but for some people, that's what turns their crank. But sex work doesn't have to be grimy, even if it is sweaty... and seriously, ten minutes with Google is going to get you plenty of hits.
 * That's the practical side. I'm not going to go into the legal issues; they vary a great deal anyway, depending on the country. The ethical issues are more universal, but that's another discussion entirely (and nowhere near as black and white as a lot of people on both sides of the argument would like to believe). -- Captain Disdain (talk) 02:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you mean position 2 or 9? Did you try a video store they should what you need on DVD. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 03:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally if I were you I wouldn't bother. Why waste money? If you really want to do, I would suggest an escort agency, e.g. like the infamous one use by the former NY governor, who would hopefully provide you with someone less likely to have every single STD known to exist and who doesn't look like she's taking every single drug known to humans. At the very least, I would stay well away from a street walker. Whatever you do, make sure you use proper protection Nil Einne (talk) 12:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You get what you pay for with these things. A girl from an escort agency will be far better (more attractive, cleaner, give you a better time) than a street walker, but will also charge more. (I don't know prices off the top of my head, I'm afraid, it's not an area I have a great deal of expertise in! [And, obviously, it varies from place to place.]) --Tango (talk) 13:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Depending on what country you (the OP) live in, you might be able to get much more than a mere relaxing rub-down by visiting a massage parlour. In the UK, 'massage parlour' is pretty much a euphemism for 'brothel'. Though it'd probably be best to check the place out first - to avoid any embarrassing misunderstandings. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 23:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * While some brothels certainly masquerade as massage parlours, I think there are plenty of genuine massage parlours out there. I don't know how you tell which is which... --Tango (talk) 11:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In Ontario the keywords for legitimate massage places are "registered massage therapist". --Anonymous, 06:03 UTC, February 10, 2009.
 * Frankly, "why waste money?" strikes me as a bit of a weird question (although I realize that it was probably mostly rhetorical). Because it's fun and feels good? I mean, there are plenty of arguments on the other side of the issue as well, obviously. The risks -- or moral (or legal!) issues -- may well outweigh the benefits. But you might as well ask why people smoke cigarettes, get drunk, or go hunting with Dick Cheney. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 15:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It depends greatly on where you are in the world. Amsterdam's red light district is well signposted and clearly marked on all maps.  If you still can't find it - you can ask a policeman.  The prostitutes mostly have attractively lit store fronts with 'goods on display'.   If you can fight your way past all the giggly American tourists taking photos - it's all a very professional arrangement.  The ladies will be more than happy to discuss what is required and for what price - and their English is typically quite good.  If you require to see their latest STD test results - it'll be available on demand....or so I'm told. SteveBaker (talk) 04:25, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Submarine disaster quotes
I am a former Naval Officer. I am researching submarine disasters. I seek information of the following quotes; "Who was after you?" "Sir, (or "Mr Secretary") there was no one after me". This may have related to a survivor of the Squalish sinking or to a Civil War submersible sinking. My memory is unclear on this.

Certainly it related to the last survivor of the craft reporting the situation.

Thank you Center39 (talk) 04:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I can't help you with the question, but I added a header which'll make your question stand out a little better. (It's especially useful since your question isn't about prostitutes, unlike the previous one...) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 04:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You might want to go to Wikiquote and ask this question; they have a Reference desk equivalent there which tracks down half-remembered quotes. Sam Blacketer (talk) 11:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Magazines at Google Books
Is there any list of all the magazines that are currently included at Google Books? Thanks in advance, Zagalejo^^^ 06:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Try marking 'Magazines' in the advanced search. Brandспойт 19:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Hikuta
Is Hikuta really that effective and lethal?I heard that we dont even need strength or a rigorous practice to master it.Does it really have the devastating effects I heard of? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.229.156 (talk) 08:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Try our article at Hikuta and the links from there. BrainyBabe (talk) 09:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The article is up for deletion on the grounds that it is unsourced and essentially no one has ever heard of hikuta; the only real link on the article is to a site that advertises hikuta training by a guy named Jack Savage, who has trained "thousands of people in hundreds of countries", which sounds... dubious at best. Alas, the site contains no real information about it, unless you really believe that that hikuta was "developed by the body guards of the ancient Pharaohs of Egypt" and was then secretly "passed on in secret fighting societies and the body guards of a number of rulers in the ancient world", until it was employed by a group of elite commando soldiers in the early 1900s, who became "the most superior soldiers in the history of mankind". It's a funny yarn, but meanwhile, back in the real world this is plain old bullshit; it's a scam (in which case you'd have to be a kind of an idiot to fall for it) or a joke (in which case it's fairly funny). In any case, regardless of that, the timing of this question seems suspect. I'm sure that if not for the AfD, we wouldn't be seeing this. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 12:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Antitank man
Suppose me and tank stand in the field, some 100 m from each other. I'm about to use Molotov cocktail and the tank solely it's cannon, not machine gun. Is it actually possible to run faster than turret spins, creep onto the tank, tuck the fired bottle into the loofah and run away before it detonates? 91.135.241.9 (talk) 11:34, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if you could do all of those things, a Molotov cocktail is a pretty weak explosive device, so it will have no effect at all on the tank. A Molotov cocktail operates mainly by spraying burning fuel on its target, and the explosive force is not all that great, so the steel cannon barrel on a tank is likely to experience no effects from it.  If you could somehow sneak the molotov cocktail into the cockpit of the tank, you could likely cause some serious burns to its occupants, however.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  13:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think it really explodes at all, the fuel is spread by the force of you throwing it and it smashing. You would have to throw it into the cockpit with enough force to make it smash and spread the fuel everywhere. --Tango (talk) 13:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Are tanks equipped with a loofah? --Sean 14:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think the OP was expecting the molotov cocktail to damage the tank itself - he talks about "tucking it into the loofah", which I assume to be a bizarre mistranslation for an air vent or similar. So he is trying to get it into the crew spaces of the tank. Reasons why this won't work:
 * * The tank driver is unlikely to sit there and wait for you to climb onto his vehicle. So now you have to try to climb onto a **moving** tank.
 * * It's actually not that easy to climb onto a modern tank (they're a lot bigger than WWII ones that were attacked with Molotov cocktails). The usual route is up the front glacis plate, which is practically suicidal if the vehicle is moving at speed.
 * * "Run[ning] faster than [the] turret spins" doesn't really make sense on its own. The required running speed will depend on how far you are from the turret. According to our article, a Challenger 2 turret turns at 40º per second. If we assume you're trying this crazy run at your initial distance of 100m, a 40º traverse will cover about 70m (at constant distance from the tank). So you'd need to move at 70m/s to stay ahead of the barrel at that distance. Olympic-level running speed is, from memory, just over 10m/s. So no, you can't outrun the rotation at that initial distance.
 * * In any case, the tank doesn't have to get a direct hit on you. Although the shells will almost certainly be designed for defeating armour (HEAT, HESH, etc) rather than antipersonnel effects, standing near one exploding is still unlikely to be good for your health.
 * * Finally, assuming you do manage to somehow get on top of a tank with a flaming bottle of petrol in your hands, where are you going to put it? Hatches are locked down, and there's no such thing as a simple air vent (tanks have air conditioning and filtering systems to protect against nuclear, biological and chemical attack).
 * In summary, your bottle of petrol is a non-starter. If you had a modern anti-armour weapon and the tank crew didn't know you were there, it's a different story. But petrol? No. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 14:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I mean tucking the bottle into a cannon hole. 91.135.241.129 (talk) 19:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd say the contents would just blow out the end when the next shell fires, doing no damage to the tank. Now, you certainly could defeat a tank using nothing but flaming gasoline (petrol), but you'd likely need far more than one Molotov cocktail.  You could either deprive the machinery and crew of oxygen by burning it around the air intakes, or you could overheat the tank.  Either of these approaches would be likely to take many minutes or even hours, though.  If the tank couldn't move, that would be relatively easy, but a moving tank would tend to move away from the puddle of burning gasoline, so you'd need something more like napalm to stick to it and burn while it moves. StuRat (talk) 20:49, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * A Molotov cocktail in the turret could cause a problem for the crew if it breaks apart and ignites while no shell is loaded. That's because opening the rear of the turret to load another shell would result in flaming gasoline dripping into the tank.  If the crew knew this was the situation, they would need to avoid using the cannon until the gasoline burns off.  If they didn't this could pose a problem for them to have burning gasoline in the crew compartment, but they could probably use a fire extinguisher on it and continue on.  Note, however, than when in combat a tank crew is likely to keep a shell loaded at all times, so the chances of getting a Molotov cocktail in the turret before they could reload would be pretty low.  Also, if this became a general tactic used by rebels, they would likely fit their turrets with fire suppression systems to eliminate this threat. StuRat (talk) 21:03, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Would tossing a hand grenade into the cannon barrel do anything useful, as a matter of interest? Or would it at most render the cannon inoperable? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 23:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * See Reference desk/Archives/Science/2008 July 3. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  02:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * A grenade has quite a bit more explosive force to it than a Molotov cocktail, so it could deform the turret to an extent that it would be destroyed by firing the next shell. I can't see the grenade detonating a shell in the turret, though, since the explosives would be protected from the blast by the lead tip of the shell. StuRat (talk) 05:51, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

A WW2 vet I know claimed that one desperation tactic against tanks when you had no antitank weapon was to stuff mud in the barrel of the cannon while they weren't paying attention and then get them to fire it, resulting in an explosion of the cannon. If there were, say 1 foot of mud in the end of the barrel and the cannon were fired, what would happen? What is the minimum fill to result in failure of the barrel? Molotov cocktails were effective against Russian tanks in World War 2 as well as German tanks, if lives of the attackers were considered expendable. says gasoline bombs had little effect on a WW2 U.S. M5 (Stuart?) medium tank, or other tanks which were buttoned up. If one person popped up from cover and fired a few shots at the tank, then ducked behind cover such as a trench or embankment providing adequate cover against the main gun, then others might be able to toss a Molotov cocktail into an open hatch. Tank crews do not always go around with the tank buttoned up, even in the present day, since visibility is traded for security. Infantry is needed to protect tanks against such attacks, or other attacks such as a large metal bar jammed into the tread. Edison (talk) 23:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

can gym and piano go together ???
will there be any problem in playing the piano,if we concentrate on building the body.will it affect the fingers ?? what exercises are more secure ??? are there no exercises that makes the body fit,without affecting the finger flexibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Youngchopin90 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Muscle development does not cause a loss of flexibility. Gymnasts, for example, are both extremely strong and extremely flexible.  --Sean 14:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * In any case, there are no muscles in the fingers, only tendons.--Shantavira|feed me 14:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Nevertheless, people have the tendoncy to talk about "finger muscles", which I take to mean the muscles which control the fingers, regardless of where they are actually located. StuRat (talk) 20:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * QI? Cycle~ (talk) 16:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * ¿Qué? -- 76.201.145.29 (talk) 04:33, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * As a pianist of sorts, I'd say that any increase in general fitness can only be good for the playing, and increasing the strength of the fingers and hands in particular is also a good thing, because with strength comes gentleness, and you need both for piano playing (as in life generally). However, it's not just the fingers and hands that are used, but the whole arms, shoulders, torso, legs, feet.  Maybe not the genitals and the internal organs, but effectively the entire mechanism.  That said, care must be taken to protect the fingers and the hands, but as long as you're not engaging in excessively rough exercise likely to cause injury to those parts, you should be ok.  --  JackofOz (talk) 02:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Hudson River Airbus Salvage Operation
I just saw some brilliant pics of the above operation which were truly amazing. But 3 questions - who arranges these things? - and who pays for them? - and what does the salvage team do (and who pays them) when they aren't salvaging planes from the Hudson River? OK - I know - that was really 4 questions. 92.21.244.228 (talk) 13:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The airline probably pays (or rather, their insurance company). I'm sure there are lots of salvage operations around to keep the team busy - getting a large airliner out of a river in the middle of a city is probably an unusual job for them, though. --Tango (talk) 13:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a neat little aside, even though it has nothing to do with the question- I live in the town the co-pilot lives in and I attend school with his children. I regularly see him in church and it was really cool to be able to shake his hand and congratulate him! --72.69.146.63 (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I've tried to find a link but can't ,all I get is books and a TV series..I believe in the case of crashes,the wreckage is collected by the countries' air crash investigation department,often known as tinkickers, not salvaged as such.A full investigation is carried out on all crashes often involving re building the plane as far as possible.I'm not sure who pays for it but I know the insurance agency and the owners of the plane are involved in what happens to the remains afterwards..86.53.80.11 (talk) 18:03, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

women right empowerment
does women wanting more rights affect their relationship with men —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.167.180.83 (talk) 14:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the women's rights movement had an enormous effect on male-female relationships in that the women are treated and behave much more like an individual and less like property. --Sean 14:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Slight caveat. I used to think so, but there were matrons before women's suffrage.  The Temperance movement preceded woman's suffrage and was a powerful organization mostly consisting of woman.  Family power structures are not quite always what they look like on the surface.  I've met ladies from countries that don't have women's rights.  Some of them surely could have fared better in an other social structure, but there were also those that made me feel sorry for their husbands (as well as their daughters in law!)  The oddest thing to my mind is, however, that some of the most oppressive (and even abominable) customs are propagated and supported by women.  One disappointing aspect of the women's rights movement is that a lot of effort got lost on decorative detail.  From equal wages to company promotions many important goals remain unreached, but women getting married can choose their surname.  (Big whoop.) 76.97.245.5 (talk) 05:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

air crash survivors
Airports and governments must have protocols for this kind of thing. What happens, legally and officially, to the survivors of a plane crash? I know the recent landing on the Hudson River was an internal flight, so the issues are less heightened, but take for example the Heathrow crash a year ago, or others even more dramatic. Plane lands wrong, everyone or almost everyone gets out, some are injured, emergency services swoop in and do their good work, casualties get zoomed to hospital. What happens to passport checks and visas? What about medication for diabetics etc., all that stuff you are supposed to keep with you in cabin baggage, which of course has ben left on the plane, which may now be burned or roped off as a crime scene or otherwise inaccessible? What happens if you are not in need of hospitalisation, but have no credit cards or other funds -- do the airport hotels have a deal with the airlines? Do all the survivors get processed through a VIP channel? That's all very well if you crash handily at an international airport. Someone has to think of these things. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Most airlines are smart enough to pay for any emergency expenses of the survivors. This both avoids some very bad PR they would get if survivors are filmed sleeping on the streets and may also make survivors less likely to sue for millions than if they feel they've been abandoned by the airline.  I would think pretty much every airport is near a hospital, so people needing meds could be sent there for anything not available at the airport.  The only prob with hospitals is they don't necessarily have an exact match for your med.  They may have "a blood thinner", for example, but not the particular one you use. StuRat (talk) 20:28, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I would think the protocol would be the same as any major crash, whether it be an aircrash, coach crash or train crash. The niceties of passport control take a very low second to ensuring safety and medical attention. Each individual would be checked out and their personal needs met. If that involves being sent to a hospital for checking then that might be the first priority to avoid any complaints or repercussions later. At the hospital everyone would be subject to a medical examination appropriate to their condition, part of this may well be the provision of any medications necessary. Almost certainly victims of crashes are unlikely to be subject to security or customs checks, these incidents are very uncommon and the likelihood of someone being an irregular passenger is vanishingly small. Having no credit cards or immediate funds does not exempt you from having to pay in normal circumstances but it is probable that in these extreme circumstances the airline funds the cost of accommodation for overnight stays. I can't imagine anyone involved in such an incident wanting to spend much time in a hotel, I'm sure they would be wanting to get home ASAP. All airports will have Major Incident plans which will make provision for a number of different scenarios, so someone will have thought of everything as far as everything can be thought of. The idea of a VIP channel to process victims is a nice touch but the reality of the situation usually means that injured or distressed people need immediate attention and would go straight to hospital, there is likely a central control point which will coordinate actions and information. Richard Avery (talk) 07:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * But it seems to me that the majority of passengers in the two crashes I linked did not go to hospital. You've got a coule of hundred traumatised but uninjured people.  They may not want to get on another plane (=death machine) to get home. There have got to be procedures. BrainyBabe (talk) 08:57, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, so sometime soon after the incident a doctor has to check everyone to ensure that they are not injured and give the clearance for them to proceed. This would most likely be done at the nearest hospital with an emergency department or possibly at an emergency station set up for the purpose. "Each individual would be checked out and their personal needs met". This procedure will ensure that each person will be assessed, reassured, medically treated and processed in the way that best suits them. I agree many would not want to climb back onto a plane but some may,(Surviving an air-crash is a vindication of aircraft not always being death machines). There are countless possible scenarios that one overall plan could not possibly meet so there has to be, and probably are, plans that follow certain flexible pathways, adhering to certain person-processing principles that ensure that all the survivors are dealt with and ultimately find their way to their destination by their chosen travel method. Richard Avery (talk) 16:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * AFAIK There are several interlocking paths of operations. If the accident happened in or near an airport the airport's emergency response procedures will take care of passenger rescue, registration and shipping the injured off to hospitals.  There is a process called triage that gets people sorted into different categories of needing assistance.  United Airlines Flight 232 is often cited as a textbook example of good coordination of several branches involved in a rescue operation.  (They made a movie about it.)  The emergency service coordinator in charge will try to get all the information to the right places.  The airline will call in additional personnel and alert airport personnel trained in counseling.  (e.g. airport priests, psychologists on call)  They will also try to do their best to keep track of the passengers on their passenger manifest.  Their airport office will have a supervisor on site that is trained in their emergency procedures and will have a list of phone numbers to call.  (Sometimes theory, practice may be, "call Jane and ask her where that list is.")  Well organized airlines will usually make a telephone hotline available for known "people to be informed".  If you are not a direct relative or spouse or listed as a contact they will be rather unlikely to give out information.  They may be nice enough to let you know if the person you called about wasn't on the passenger list, but don't count on it.  (OR: A friend of ours once missed a plane that crashed.)  Uninjured passengers might be asked to stick around to "assist the authorities with investigations".  Investigators will try to talk to everyone to get the stories together.  Until everyone is identified and accounted for they will try to keep them all together.  They will also try to shield them from too much media attention.  The airline is likely to provide accommodations, but only first class travelers can expect VIP like levels.  Economy class will probably be put up at a mid level hotel.  (Not quite the minimum requirement stop-over that delayed travelers get to enjoy. That wouldn't look good in the media.)  Airline agents will take down a list of items the passengers claim to have lost.  Expect waiting in line if you flew economy.  There is a limit to which the airlines reimburse lost items as per rules.  Since a crash is a media worthy event they may handle this more generously, but passengers might end up in a maze of customer service calls and insurance paperwork.  (OR: making a fuss and spreading the word to the public will speed things up and get them settled in ones favor, for claims within reasonable limits).  There will be an immediate package (e.g. vouchers or cash) for replacement clothing and toiletries.  Food will also be covered.  (I bet the arrangements for first class are more generous.)  They will also hand out phone cards and maybe even make phones available so people can cancel their credit cards and call relatives etc.  Domestic travelers will be asked about their intentions and then get either booked on a flight or get some form of voucher or cash for reimbursing other travel expenses either back home or to the destination they where originally booked to.  Temporary documents like a driver's license can usually be produced in cooperation with local authorities and law enforcement.  Getting all your paperwork replaced will keep you busy for at least a couple of months.  Foreign nationals may get assistance in contacting their embassies.  Most embassies have a fund for stranded passengers (e.g. those robbed abroad) to get them back home.  They will also issue temporary travel documents.  But travel plans can get royally screwed up.  The airlines will probably hand out or mail vouchers for a free future flight along with their apologies. A stewardess who survived a plane crash in Florida never set foot into an airplane again, so not everyone takes it as evidence flying is safe. [[Specia


 * Thank you all, especially 76.97! Most of what's been said above is common sense (which is of course at a premium) and guessable, but it's good to have one's hunches confirmed.  BrainyBabe (talk) 13:41, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

What is this called?
what is the name of this type of art? I've never seen it before. Queenie  Talk  16:47, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mean ASCII Art? --TammyMoet (talk) 16:50, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did. Thanks! Queenie   Talk  16:54, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ASCII and ye shall be answeréd. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest a minor improvement: ASCII and ye shall be ANSId.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:47, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah - ISO what you did there. SteveBaker (talk) 04:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Effects of Shrooms
Our article on shrooms doesn't cover what the effects are (other than that of the high/trip) of acute and long term abuse of the drug. I'm inquiring about the effects on cognitive ability, memory, etc.. A quick google search turned up much of the same stuff in our article, without any information about effects on the body over long term abuse...I found a little on short term but it had mostly to do with the high. Thanks for any info! --72.69.146.63 (talk) 17:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Searching Google seems to show that they can lead to some pretty serious mental health problems, but generally only in cases of serious abuse or pre-existing mental health problems. This conference seems to have addressed some of the effects you're asking about, but there doesn't seem to be much research linking psilocybin with memory loss or impaired cognitive function after the immediate effects of the drug have worn off. Long term abuse seems to mostly linked with serotonin depletion, similar to the effects of ecstasy, but apparently that recovers pretty rapidly. 86.8.176.85 (talk) 08:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Like with most drugs, from friend's experience : paranoia, difficulty of telling reality from wishful thinking, de-socialization and all the consequences: job loss, lack of affective relations, feeling of being an outcast. On effects on memory, I'd say: focus on factual, pseudo-rational (if fantasmed) memories to the detriment of emotional memories.
 * Note this is more or less OR and that I'm in no way against the use of drugs, maybe only cautious about their abuse. 190.17.201.142 (talk) 01:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ecstasy, I mean Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, long terms effects, comprehensive study. 190.220.104.35 (talk) 18:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Um the OP asked about 'shrooms' not ecstasy Nil Einne (talk) 11:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

What dictates a hard punch?
Is the force of a punch purely a function of the speed and mass of the arm and fist? Acceptable (talk) 20:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There is quite a lot of information in our Boxing article, especially at Boxing. --Thomprod (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, I think so (F=mA) but practically, whether a punch feels "hard" or not would have other factors like how much area is involved in the impact (the difference between stabbing someone with a needle and slapping them with a spatula) and how hard the surfaces involved are. I don't know if something like a hook vs. a jab would make a difference or not. The science desk people would know more. Recury (talk) 17:56, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * A level physics was a while ago now, but the way I'd apply F=mA to a punch is to take A as the deceleration of the fist against (and relative to) your body. So speed and mass as the OP suggests is a good start (clearly you can't have much deceleration unless you start with lots of speed) but the time or distance over which the fist slows down will also matter. Hence if you're wearing a big padded jacket that slows the fist over a few centimeters, there will be a lot less force than if you were just wearing a T-shirt. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 00:38, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that it's not really only the force that matters - the energy transferred is likely to be more important. The kinetic energy of the swing is 1/2 M v2.  So the mass and speed are indeed the only things that matter in determining the incoming energy - but not all of that energy will end up in the victim since one's fist doesn't stop dead.  However, the force transmitted matters too - and the softness of the tissues involved will make for a complicated relationship between the speed and mass - and the rate at which the fist slows down and the victim's body speeds up.  So you really need to know the 'coefficient of restitution' of the various structures that are impacting and being impacted.  It's not a simple answer! SteveBaker (talk) 04:05, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Discover magazine had an article on that while back comparing karate and boxing. For Karate some of the effect is caused by the calluses on the fighters hands and feet and the assumed end point of the hit.  A boxing punch is designed to be a full swing, whereas a karate chop aims to end somewhere in the opponents body  That creates more damage.  Found it   Odd, I remember Discover articles more readily than Scientific American ones. If I keep quoting them I'll think about contacting their PR dep.76.97.245.5 (talk) 08:04, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

PPG Industries
Is There A List Of PPG Industries Companies In Australia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.139.165 (talk) 23:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Do You Know Where I Could Find One Of The Companies/Brands In Australia?Jamie Shaw (talk) 10:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * We have an article called PPG Industries that may help you. For more detail, here is the company website. --Thomprod (talk) 00:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The PPG Industrie Website Does Not Provide A List Of Brands/and/or Companies That Are Owned By PPG Industries.

length and width of denver in miles
Im Doin a school report does anyone know how many miles it is from one end of denver to the other end both length of denver and width of it n miles —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.53.144.147 (talk • contribs) 23:52, 8 February 2009


 * Let me quote from the box at the top of the page: "If your question is homework, show that you have attempted an answer first, and we will try to help you past the stuck point. If you don't show an effort, you probably won't get help. The reference desk will not do your homework for you."  You might start with our article about Denver.  While it doesn't specifically answer your question, consulting any online map would.  No matter the content of your report, accurate spelling, English grammar and correct punctuation would help increase your grade. --Thomprod (talk) 00:25, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Note also that length and width (particularly if you restrict yourself to the north-south and east-west axes) are near-useless trivia when you're discussing an irregular shape like a city. What if it's longest on a diagonal?  What if it's shaped like an 'L'?  What if (as is likely the case) it's a weird squiggly blob?  Consequently, you should consider replacing length and width with the area of Denver.  I'm sure its square mileage is easy to find.  199.209.144.218 (talk) 14:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Also note, although it is rare, there are towns/cities which are square or nearly so. The town of Vergennes, Vermont is nearly square, having a total area of 2.5 square miles.  I know I've encountered this before in other places but can't recall them at the moment.  Dismas |(talk) 00:45, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Michigan has a governmental unit called the "township" which is the government of a six-mile-by-six-mile survey township. Because of this, it's very common to have towns that are exact six-mile squares -- look at a map of the suburbs of Detroit sometime. --Carnildo (talk) 02:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This dates back to the Northwest Ordinance. If you look at the suburbs of most major midwestern cities (Milwaukee, Chicago, etc.) you find the same basic pattern.  The "township" is considered an unincorporated area, so it doesn't often show up on maps, but when towns and cities "incorporate" they often do so over established township lines, and that results in the funny grid pattern you find around major cities in the Midwest.  Actually, in many areas of the U.S. outside of the northeast, you find similarly grid-like boundaries which sumarily ignore natural features in the place of straight lines.  Check out List of counties in Texas, especially North Texas... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  04:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Indianapolis is essentially square. Denver is not, as can be seen in the map on its page (a map rather lacking in detail, mind you!) Pfly (talk) 05:15, 10 February 2009 (UTC)