Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 February 9

= February 9 =

Usa global debt(private+public) /gdp and public debt(considering FNM & FRE)/gdp?
How are these two numbers today after all the Usa crisis? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.60.116.54 (talk) 05:00, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Waiting i checked in several international banking datas the numbers are : about 850% and 135%.In an italian-german international bank a disaster they wrote,a non reverse situation.

Quakers and tax
The article on the Religious Society of Friends mentions that as conscientious objectors, some Quakers have struck a deal with the IRS whereupon the tax monies that would go towards war are instead paid to an escrow account which the IRS can only access for peaceful purposes. As the Constitution forbids religious discrimination, is it possible for any group of pacifists to arrange a similar deal? Have any tried/do any do this? 86.8.176.85 (talk) 05:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Follow the relevant link, and you'll see a discussion about a peace tax escrow account managed by several Quaker meetings (local groups). A participant puts the amount of his tax obligation into this escrow account.  The IRS, however, can and will seize other assets and impose additional interest and penalties.  The participant can choose to regard this as "suffering for conscience sake," because he has not directly paid the tax.  In other words, there is no deal struck with Quakers by the IRS.  --- OtherDave (talk) 11:54, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Quick follow up question, then: if someone is jailed for non-payment of taxes, do they still owe the taxes? 86.8.176.85 (talk) 13:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * In the UK, if jailed for non-payment of council tax, they still owe the tax. In a somewhat sick twist, you are also exempted from council tax on your house while you're in prison - unless you're in prison for not paying council tax. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 00:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

More air crash questions
The air crash survivors question above reminded me of a similar question that I had.

A while back, I got bumped from a flight that I was to take to Chicago. To compensate for this, the airline paid for a cab to take me over to New Hampshire to catch a later flight (I'm in Vermont) and gave me a voucher for a free round trip ticket to anywhere in the continental U.S. Besides covering food and lodging expenses if you're involved in an airline accident, do the airlines give anything else to the survivors? Will each one of the passengers aboard US Airways flight 1549 get a free round trip ticket? Dismas |(talk) 07:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It probably depends on company policy and ticket sale conditions. Usually, when you purchase an airline ticket, you get a sheet with a lot of small print named Terms and conditions or something to that effect. --Ouro (blah blah) 10:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt they are obliged to pay any compensation beyond actual damages (they may not even be obliged to pay them, but I doubt they would risk the court cases), but many airlines probably choose to for the sake of PR. --Tango (talk) 11:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This article says that the airline gave the Flight 1549 passengers free upgrades to first class for a year, and $5000 each to compensate for their luggage. I imagine they'll all get their soggy luggage back, as well.  Some of the passengers allegedly complained at the penury of the compensation, which is pretty stupid IMHO.  --Sean 14:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is another article: cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 14:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. After reading those articles, I wonder why those people think that US Airways owes them anything more.  It's not like the airline knew that a flock of birds would fly out at just the wrong time...  There was no negligence.  Dismas |(talk) 09:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Free upgrades to first class seems pretty useless to me unless you already fly a lot. I suspect a lot of people would greatly prefer a few free flights (some of course just don't want to fly). So all they got is $5000 for their luggage. $5000, even if it's above what the airlines are legally obliged to pay might not be enough to even cover the entire luggage for some people and then there is all the hassle etc of replacing the documents. The fact it was an event outside their control and not negligence may make it seem like they don't owe the passengers anything but you have to admit, $5000 and nothing else seems hardly anything particularly by US standards where outrageous compensation seems par the course Nil Einne (talk) 11:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Oceanic Airlines gave those people golden passes so they could fly first class any time from anywhere to any destination for the rest of their lines. Come on, other airlines, the bar has been set....  Tempshill (talk) 06:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

what are some domestic weft knitting machines?
I read that there are a few different types of knitting machines, and that a weft knitting machine would make product closest to hand knitting; but I couldn't find a make or model of a machine for home use? Are there any brands that are available in the US? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.139.247 (talk) 10:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Try Knitcraft, yarn-store, Allbrands. Also read Hand and Machine Knitting: The differences and Similarities. Gwinva (talk) 02:58, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Human behavior
Why sometimes we giggle after urine discharging.81.21.55.10 (talk) 11:00, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe you have observed something ridiculous whilst in the process of having a pee? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 11:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Giggle? A self-deprecating sense of humor, perhaps?  I've personally never encountered any giggling at urinals...  Maybe you're thinking of a piss shiver?  Dismas |(talk) 11:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We have an article: piss shiver. OK.  So its a redirect to the "official name".  But seriously, we have an article on EVERYTHING... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  13:00, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, we do have an article on everything. :) 216.239.234.196 (talk) 14:24, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Good catch, Jayron! But it's not quite true.  Last time I looked, we didn't have an article on light well, or a list of all the things you can see on your skin (mole, striation, freckle, birthmark, wrinkle, etc.) to name but two. I think we have a place where requests for articles can go, but I've forgotten where to find it.... BrainyBabe (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:Requested Articles Queenie   Talk  18:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ehem: lightwell has been there since July 2006 - I'll make a redirect from light well for your future edification - but USE A SEARCH ENGINE - and TRY A FEW SIMPLE VARIATIONS!!! List of skin-related conditions and the 'see also' section of Skin lesion covers most of the territory for your other missing link. SteveBaker (talk) 03:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I should have found lightwell, and in penance I have just improved it a tweak. But the lists of skin stuff are not what I'm looking for: they list only problems & diseases, and seem aimed at or composed by medical students, whereas I would like a layperson's list of what one can see on the surface of one's own skin, with correct names but no attempts at diagnosis.   BrainyBabe (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe the OP mean to say "Why do we sometimes discharge a little urine after giggling?" Astronaut (talk) 13:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Eeewww! I may never tell another joke!  Well, if that IS the question, I suppose it would have to be that the muscles you use for laughing are pressing down on your bladder...but you ought to have more control than that - so this may turn into a medical question...which we can't answer. SteveBaker (talk) 15:31, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That would be stress incontinence. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Online tool for counting and making lists/ charts?
Some weeks ago I came across a web 2.0 website where it was possible to almost count everything you liked and make lists and charts of it. I guess it was still beta but looked real good. I forgot the name, does anyone know?

Do you know of any other online tools to make lists of numbers and events, e.g. the number of cigarettes you smoke per day, the time you work on a certain project etc.

213.23.4.74 (talk) 11:16, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * A Google Docs spreadsheet maybe? Dismas |(talk) 11:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well that would be the solution if there weren't any other web services 213.23.4.74 (talk) 17:42, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Australian bushfire, list of deceased
Hello, Wikipedia. I am in need of some assistance, as I search the web for a possible list of names of those so far confirmed deceased in the Australian bushfire. If any of you possess such a list at hand or nearby, I would be very thankful. My own searches have so far produced no remarkable results. In advance, thank you. 193.213.14.57 (talk) 11:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The numbers are at .  Police are not going to release names until their identity is confirmed formally, using disaster victim identification techniques. And usually next of kin are informed first. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Other newspapers may have done the same, but on the front of today's The Age, there's a group of photos showing 43 deceased people and their names. --  JackofOz (talk) 21:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Disappearing fish
We have a small fish tank we had four goldfish in the night the following morning we only had three could the three remaining fish have eaten the fourth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pamgra (talk • contribs) 14:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I added a heading to differentiate your question form the preceding one. Ka renjc 14:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Have you checked behind the tank? I've had more than a few fish in my day go missing and it turns out they got ambitious and made a jump for it (I found their desiccated little corpses weeks later). That seems more likely to me than three goldfish eating another (which I'm not sure is that common) and leaving no trace of a corpse (which would make sense for a bigger, more carnivorous fish, but not a little goldfish). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you check to see if the cat's breath smelt fishy? Richard Avery (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * But what if the cat had just had fishy smelts? ;-) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * A smelty cat ? StuRat (talk) 20:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you sure he's not under a stone or lying flat in a shell, dead? That happened to one of my fish. Queenie   Talk  18:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Public records in United States
Our article on the Suleman octuplets states this:
 * Public records obtained by the Associated Press show that Suleman had three miscarriages before she first became a mother. Records obtained by the Los Angeles Times also show she told a psychiatrist that she suffered deep depression and had suicidal thoughts while starting a family.

My argument is not with the WP article, but the US journalistic conventions. How the heck is a woman's history of miscarriage part of the public record? I understand about marriage and divorce being public, obviously, and to some extent the timing of marital separation, but depression? suicide? confidences told to doctors? winding up in the public record and thus legitimately being reported by the press -- how has this come to be normal? As I understand it, these are not leaks. Presumably, many other people in similar situations could also find their medical details quoted. What makes this legit -- that she received a pay-off for being injured in a riot? I don't understand. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:55, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "How has it come to be normal"—if it bleeds, it leads. But I agree, it's a gross violation of privacy, though I doubt it breaks any laws being that these details—for whatever reason—are in the "public record". --140.247.251.237 (talk) 19:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Presumably public recording of miscarriages arose as a natural outgrowth of public birth records, which are frequently used to verify identity. Similarly, public death records have reduced the opportunity for ID theft from the deceased. I agree with the sentiment that reporting on such public records is in extremely poor taste, but it is legal to do so. Laws typically do cover the protection of personal medical information (depression, suicide), but in this case the psychiatric evaluation was part of a government medical exam concerning her workplace disability claims. –  7 4   00:05, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Do miscarriages result in death certificates? I imagine that probably varies by jurisdiction? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That appears to vary not only by jurisdiction, but also by gestation period ("age"), weight, and even parental preference. –  7 4   03:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I think by being notable a person loses some of their privacy rights, but I'd like someone to verify this. Phil_burnstein (talk) 19:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Getting elected to public office, or killing a bunch of people, or working your whole life to become a mega rock star—sure. Having eight kids? No way. --140.247.242.241 (talk) 22:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps our articles on privacy rights, privacy laws and publicity rights might be of interest to you. This site also states:"journalists have the right to report anything that is arguably of interest to their readers. Courts do not want to get involved in evaluating whether the reader's interest is in good taste, socially decent, etc."although it does cite a few specific counterexamples. –  7 4   00:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone is arguing it is illegal. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:20, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

OP here again. Thanks all. I find it difficult to understand, still. What is in the public interest does not mean "eveything the public wants to know". BrainyBabe (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Travel Abroad
Hi, I've just started the planning phase for an extended trip abroad and am looking for some help. I'm an American male, mid-twenties with an English degree and am hoping to travel to Central America for 6+ months. I've been focusing on Costa Rica as an initial starting point, but would like to do some general traveling around in the region. I kind of suck at planning/organizing and was hoping some of you could point me towards some online, or other, resources that might be helpful. I'm also interested in finding work down there if possible; maybe something like teaching English. My Spanish is pretty beginner still, but I have confidence in my ability to quickly improve. I'm not rich by any means, but have been scrimping and saving for a year. Any advice anyone has would be much appreciated and feel free to post directly to my talk-page if desired. Thanks in advance! - Azi Like a Fox (talk) 19:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as security goes, your timing is pretty good. A generation ago Central America was racked by civil wars and human rights violations, but it's settled down quite a bit now.  Kidnapping might be a concern, but that's worse in Mexico and some South American countries at the moment.  So, you might be hitting Central America at the perfect time, after the wars ended but before the kidnapping takes off big time.  Still, I'd stay in public areas in large groups, wherever possible.


 * If your Spanish isn't very good, you might want to try a former British colony, like Belize, which will have far more people who speak English. (I'm sure you'd find lots of people who speak English in the tourist areas of any Central American country, but I get the impression you might want to go beyond the traditional tourist areas.)  Of course, if your goal is to learn Spanish, then you'll want to seek out countries where they speak it. StuRat (talk) 20:30, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * See Teaching English as a Foreign Language, Costa rica, and Wikitravel. You may also learn from CouchSurfing and Servas.  BrainyBabe (talk) 20:39, 9 February 2009 (UTC)