Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 January 16

= January 16 =

Solar-powered car
I remember in the mid 1980s one of the European automakers develoed a car with solar cells in the roof. The solar cells did not power the car (it had a regular engine), but they were used to operate the air conditioning system. The logic was that on a sunny day the driver could park in the sun and the AC would run and keep the interior cool. Does anyone remember such a vehicle, and how were its sales figures? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.120.95.34 (talk) 00:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think they ever sold such a thing. It could easily have been a concept car though.  Given the weight of solar cells in the mid-1980's - I'd bet that the additional weight of the solar panel would have consumed more gasoline than it would have saved.  Furthermore, I don't know of any cars from that era with electrically powered air conditioners...even on modern cars (with a VERY few exceptions) they are driven from the serpentine belt with an electrically operated clutch to disconnect it when it's not in use. It's not impossible that you're right - but I think it's unlikely as a commercial product. SteveBaker (talk) 01:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A more practical application may be to use the solar cells to operate a small fan to exchange the hot air inside the car with cooler outside air. StuRat (talk) 02:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That's just ventilation, not aircon. It doesn't help much on a hot day (and you could just open the windows). --Tango (talk) 03:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It can make a huge difference on a hot day, from 150°F inside to 100°F. That's the diff between burning yourself and not.  Opening windows helps, but leaves the car susceptible to rain, insects, and thieves.  A small, covered exhaust hole in the roof, with a fan and screen, could solve most of those probs. StuRat (talk) 05:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Solar powered car ventilators have been available for many years. They fit at the top of the window, so the window is effectively closed against intrusion, but there is a fan and an air passage. The old ones did not move much air, since they had a small low power solar panel and a small fan. New ones are under $10 on the web. A factory installed powerful one would be a vast improvement. Edison (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah - that's much more likely. You can buy solar powered fans for your car quite easily.  But airconditioners need a compressor and those are chunky, power-hungry machines. SteveBaker (talk) 20:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Edison: The comments on the link you mentioned say it was an optional equipment on Mazda's 929 in the mid-nineties. So these things were available as a factory-installed option once. -- 78.43.64.211 (talk) 21:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I car I heard of had amorphous cells on the transparent sunroof. A friend was repairing the car and was curious to see terminals on the glass, took him a while to discover it wasn't a demisting system but a solar panel. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 20:41, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Military SOP for human shields
- 		 - 	Does the U.S. Military have a standard operating procedure or policy regarding its approach towards the use of civilians as human shields by militants on both a micro- and macroscopic level? - 		 - 	For example, if a terrorist uses a civilian in front of him and is firing towards U.S. troops, is the U.S. soldier allowed to return fire and kill the civilian in the process? - 		 - 	Similarly, if militants are in a building with civilians and firing rockets towards U.S. troops, assuming that a hostage rescue is not possible, can the U.S. troops demolish the building - killing both the hostages and civilians? Acceptable (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The rules of engagement vary from one operation to the next, but in general, civilians are considered acceptable collateral damage. --Carnildo (talk) 01:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * (EC) That's a good question. It definitely seems to be a pretty murky issue, and I hear words like proportionality and discrimination of response thrown around a lot in relation to it. Also, I believe that often military's are unwilling to disclose the exact rules of engagement their soliers are operating under, as that could provide a tactical advantage to those they are fighting. Sorry I don't have a great answer, but I do have a follow-up question, in case someone who does have a great answer comes along: does it matter if said civilians are willing versus unwilling human shields? I've heard of cases where civilians have chosen to place themselves in harm's way. Does their decision to willingly act as a human shield somehow compromise their civilian status, even if they are still acting as noncombatants? - Azi Like a Fox (talk) 01:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I would expect many factors would go into the decision:


 * 1) How many militants ?


 * 2) How many civilians ?


 * 3) What type of civilians ? Women and children probably count for more than military-aged men.


 * 4) Are the militants a real threat or just an annoyance ?


 * 5) What's the local political situation ? If everyone in that village already hates Americans and backs the militants, then killing a few more of them won't change things.


 * 6) Is there likely to be press coverage of the civilian casualties ?


 * 7) I would think that them be willing shields would make them less worth saving, as that could be used against them in the press. StuRat (talk) 02:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the key point in this scenario in that the US forces are under fire. I would expect a soldier is allowed to take whatever action is necessary to defend themselves. Obviously, it needs to be truly necessary, there can't be an alternative plan (possibly including surrender - I'm not sure if you would be expected to surrender, but you almost certainly wouldn't be if you know the enemy doesn't take prisoners). Killing the civilian in order to get the enemy combatant would probably depend on the circumstances, but killing the civilian in order to save your own life and those of the rest of your unit is another matter entirely. --Tango (talk) 03:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

If unwilling human shields were U.S. citizens in the U.S., who spoke the same language and were of the same ethnicity as the troops, they would likely show great restraint in using lethal force which would kill the shields as well as the shooters. If it were a village on the other side of the world where they all had a religion, language and ethnicity unlike that of the armed forces, historically there has been less restraint in, say, firing rockets or dropping bombs. Consider Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, where local civilians were killed in large numbers because of a fear that armed enemy were among them. I cannot think of many recent cases in the U.S. of massive firepower being used against hostages/human shields to destroy the armed "bad guys" sheltering behind them. Instead, hostage negotiators are usually called in. Children known to be present can be considered "human shields." The federal siege at Ruby Ridge is noteworthy as an exception in this discussion. The dropping from a police helicopter of a bomb on a building occupied by Move radicals in Philadelphia in 1985, which killed four children, is also noteworthy. The federal attack on the Branch Davidian is also noteworthy, in that the attack killed 21 children. Analogous to active attack is the withholding of aid in a disaster and preventing people leaving the disaster site. After Hurricane Katrina, state and federal forces did not provide food, water, medical assistance or evacuation to thousands of suffering people in New Orleans, due to fear that individuals or gangs in the city might shoot at the soldiers, police or aid workers. They also sought to prevent other individuals or groups from providing such aid. See Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina. Edison (talk) 15:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Black light search
Okay, i drive an old Police car, meaning i have the regular dome lights and a 'ticket writing' light. i wanna replace that bulb with a black light. the size of the bulb is 1156, and im not having any luck whatsoever. Does anyone know a good place to buy one? 71.223.235.58 (talk) 02:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * IF you are a cop, google this matter. IF NOT, get that equipment off of the car, or you could face criminal charges, such as impersonating a police officer. Powerzilla (talk) 03:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't a ticket writing light just a regular light positioned so that the officer can see to write someone a ticket? I don't see how having one on your car is impersonating a police officer. (I'm not entirely sure what "dome lights" are.) I very much doubt the police would sell on their old cars without removing the bits that mark them as police cars. --Tango (talk) 03:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The dome light is the light inside the car on the roof/ceiling (top of the dome). Automotive lighting.  It sounds like he wants to replace one of the interior lights with a black light, not an exterior one. --Bennybp (talk) 03:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I've known a few people who have bought old police cruisers and all of them have had the markings and lights removed before sale.  They also remove the device which alternately flashes the headlights.  Dismas |(talk) 04:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In case you were interested, that's called a Wig-Wag--omnipotence407 (talk) 00:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah, its just an extra dome light, basically. i've found a seperate one that runs wires from out of the dome into a seperate bulb that i would mount myself, but i'd rather see if i can get a regular bulb first. 71.223.235.58 (talk) 03:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

An enclosed socket and reflector designed to hold a 1156 incandescent bulb would likely overheat if somehow you found a blacklight bulb with the same base. Blacklight bulbs have a coating to absorb most wavelengths of light, and the get extremely hot. Look for a battery powered or 12 volt blacklight with a fluorescent bulb or LED bulb and just add it. See for instance. Note that UV or blacklight can be injurious to eyesight and health. Edison (talk) 18:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

CRIPTIC CROSS WORD
I recently did a criptic cross word. The question was THE DOGS NAME IS McNEILL and the answer was WHISTLER. Could you please tell me how the word whistler relates. Thankyou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.53.130 (talk) 08:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a tough clue, but I think it's referring to the lithograph the Butcher's dog by James Abbott McNeill Whistler... but I don't know how you could have got that...-- WORM  MЯOW  08:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What crossword was this? Different setters have very different styles and rules, so it can help to know. Algebraist 18:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That style of clue does not match anything I would call a cryptic crossword, which generally rely either on puns or double meanings, or on chicanery with the letters of the solution. --ColinFine (talk) 01:50, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There's a number of crossword forums on the net which probably are a better bet for solving things like this. You might find one that even specializes in your particular crossword using google. For prize crosswords they have a rule that the crossword must not be discussed until after the entry date. Dmcq (talk) 14:32, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Obviously, you were supposed to get Whistler from McNeill, but I also think I detect a play on words, as in "whistle her," because you call a dog by whistling. Pavel (talk) 17:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

cannon
Does anyone recognize the model / make of the anti-aircraft cannon in this video? What the hell is that gun and how did it get there?! --Dr Dima (talk) 08:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Cannon is quite an overstatement, perhaps a translation problem. The rounds laying on the floor are .50 caliber or similar. The video is dark, but my SWAG is that this is the 12.7 mm NSVT, --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  16:01, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a 50mm machine-gun - which is a reasonable effective weapon against low flying aircraft - certainly helicopters. But the video doesn't prove much.  NOBODY sets up a 50mm machine-gun on it's tripod inside a stairwell.  To use it against any reasonable target it's got to be on the roof or outside.  So it's pretty certain that somebody moved it - and then went to all the trouble to set it up on it's tripod in a place where it's never going to be fired.   Hence you have to ask yourself - did the owner of the weapon move it and set it up again there?   Why?   There is no reason to do that.   However, if you're taking publicity photos to show off a weapons hoard you've found - you want it to look impressive - so you set up the big-assed gun someplace.  This essentially proves that the gun was moved.  Whether it was moved from the roof of the mosque down into the stairwell - or whether from outside or even some other building - we may never know.  However, it doesn't seem to be proof that it was ever stored or fired from that building...it may have been...it may not.   If it had been up on the roof with 50mm shell casings everywhere - then maybe. SteveBaker (talk) 20:32, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Impact of recession in India
What will be the Impact of recession in India —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielpillai06 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * SOme articles that may lead you to some good information are the Global financial crisis of 2008-2009 and Late 2000s recession. The second one has a small section devoted to India.  FWIW, this map lists India as a "severly affected country", whatever that means.  Hope that's a help!  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  12:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That map is a bit confusing, I assume "severely affected" means "not in recession but feeling the effects from those that are"? The description could use some clarification. -- Mad031683  (talk) 16:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Hit by recession" as in brought into recession? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Alarm System Instruction or User Manual
Does Anyone know where I can get a instruction or user manual for a SC 8C OTMA alarm system on the net ?

Scotius (talk) 15:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't find anything when I did a Google search with that in quotes. Perhaps "SC" expands into the name of the manufacturer ?  If so, I'd try a search like that.  Who is the manufacturer ? StuRat (talk) 16:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure but I think OTMA is the manufacturerScotius (talk) 11:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not finding anything that matches. Have you opened up the unit and looked at all the labels or tags inside ?  (Cut the power to the unit first.) StuRat (talk) 17:55, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I also could find nothing. The nearest was an insurance company 'OSMA' who sell alarms - but it looks like they sell other brands - not their own.  There are several websites out there which have the manuals for all sorts of alarm systems on-line - but none of them remotely fits "SC 8C OTMA" or any variation on that.  Surely there must be some other words or labels or serial numbers on the machine. SteveBaker (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * OTMA seems to be an acronym regularly associated with "overtemperature alarms" - at least that's what my searches keep getting hits for. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe SC is "Siemens Cerberus" - but the only reference I see to '8C' is on an eBay auction where someone is selling circuit boards for Siemens Cerberus alarms and mentions that some board or other is compatible with the Siemenc Cerberus 8C. This appears to be a big industrial-type alarm system - not some small home security alarm - right?  The trouble is that the Cerberus web site only talks about the SC4 and SC6 - with no mention of SC8 nor SC8C. SteveBaker (talk) 08:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

As far as I knew, it's for a home setup. When someone asked me if I could get the imformation for it, all they could give me was SC 8C OTMA alarm system bit. I don't know if it was SC 8C OTMA or OTMA SC 8C because they had it written down the first way. Scotius (talk) 10:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If you just can't find a manual for the SC8 model, try the SC6 manual, it may have enough in common with the SC8 to be useful. StuRat (talk) 14:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The SC6 and SC8 are HUGE industrial things - the kind of gizmo you'd use to secure a chemical plant or a factory or maybe a huge building. It has a bunch of separate circuit boards inside for hooking up hundreds of sensors.  I don't think either of them would be found in a home.  But if it IS an industrial system then dropping an email to Siemens-Cerberus should solve the problem. SteveBaker (talk) 01:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Okaydoke, thanks anyways

Scotius (talk) 15:58, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I am so sorry, when I asked about this I got told it was for a ADE SL 8C OTIMA Compact. On the ADE bit the D is overlapping the E so we're not sure if it's an E or not. Again sorry.

Scotius (talk) 12:59, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe it is ADE. Did you mean "OPTIMA" instead of "OTIMA" ?  Their manuals are available here: .  However, when I picked on "SL8 User" or any of the "OPTIMA" manuals, I can't download them.  Does it work for you ? StuRat (talk) 18:06, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry yes I did mean "OPTIMA". Yes I was able to download the "SL8 User" manual, I'll try the others now. Thanks. Scotius (talk) 12:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. StuRat (talk) 14:49, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Names of particular vintage military pieces of uniform
I am interested in the names of certain pieces of the dress worn particularly by the british army through the 18th to the 19th century, I've looked ever so hard but information is scarce. There are many photos though, so discribing what particular peices I'm after is not a problem. What is the name of the jackets worn by what I reckon would have been admirals one is vidible in the video to walking on a dream video by empire of the sun it was the only example of where i could find it. KingstonJr (talk) 15:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you post links to some of these photos, we'll be able to help you a lot better. Algebraist 15:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe this is what Kingstonjr refers to. I found it on this video. --Sean 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi that is exactly what I am talking about, any ideas? KingstonJr (talk) 23:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Royaume Du Maroc Stamp
I recently found a Royaume Du Maroc stamp in my home. I'm trying to find out what year was this issued (I can't read the date from where it was marked), and how much is its value (it is used)? Below is a link to a scan of the stamp.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l191/bheid/stamp.jpg

Any information would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.133.184.64 (talk • contribs) 21:00, January 16, 2009
 * Well, the portrait on the stamp is of Hassan II of Morocco, who reigned from 1961 to 1999. This page, which shows a stamp obviously from the same series, just with a different denomination, says that the stamp was issued in 1988. As for the current value of the stamp, the most recent Scott catalogue, which I don't happen to have at hand, should be able to help you. Deor (talk) 05:34, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that I look more closely, your stamp, like the one on the page I linked to, has the date of issue printed along the right-hand edge. Deor (talk) 16:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This page on Flickr: ...has two other stamps from the same series - both postmarked 1998 - but if you zoom up that image - one stamp has 1981 and the other 1996 written on it!  It's hard to imagine someone saving a stamp from 1981 and waiting until 1998 to post it!  So that same series of stamps must have been in circulation for at least 15 years with each denomination coming out in a different year with much the same design.  But the image you posted of your stamp is to low-rez to read the date on it.  You need to look on the actual stamp itself - the year is printed sideways on the right-hand side.  As to the value - if this was the 'standard' stamp that was used for 15 solid years - they must have been made in huge numbers - which suggests a low value - unless you got very lucky and there is something special about the one year yours is marked with.


 * Just to complete what the previous poster said. This particular stamp was the most common one used in Morocco for over 20 years (while Hassan II died in 1999, the postal service did not come around to issuing another series of common stamps until a number of years after Mohammed VI succeeded his father). The stamp is basically worthless. --Xuxl (talk) 15:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Stealing From Hotels

 * "Oh, lots of people take towels from hotels. "
 * "I took the bed. Winched it out of the window to my mate outside. I was renting this flat. It was unfurnished."
 * "So you went to a hotel and stole the bed? "
 * "I stole the entire room, actually. Armchair, dressing-table, carpet. Even the fitted wardrobe. The only thing I didn't take were the towels. "
 * - Red Dwarf

Pretty much every touring stand-up comedian I've ever seen has, as some point or other, done a lazy routine about stealing stuff from hotel rooms, but I was wondering what the actual statistics are on thefts from hotel rooms by guests, and what hotels do about it. I'm guessing that if you try to leave with a TV in your luggage you'll probably have to explain yourself to the police, but what about smaller stuff - linen, towels, lamps etc. Do hotels just write them off as inevitable losses or do they actually report such thefts? And how many people are actually prosecuted for theft from hotels? Thanks.

PS. This isn't a request for legal advice. I'm not planning a grand burglary tour of my local area, I'm just curious :P 87.112.26.250 (talk) 23:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Google has lots on the subject: . --Tango (talk) 00:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

"I figure I can take anything from the hotel room that isn't nailed down...and anything I can pry loose isn't really nailed down, is it ?" StuRat (talk) 07:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * In my experience, hotels don't seem too bothered by towels or toiletries going missing, but they seem much more concerned about their bathrobes; some leave a card stating that missing bathrobes will be charged at $100 each, while others invite you to buy one from reception (with the implied threat of charging you if you were to steal one).  I did stay in one hotel in Bangkok, where there was a prominently placed price list, listing every item in the room and how much you would be charged if an item was to go missing - IIRC, top of the list was the TV at $1769 all the way down to the soap dish in the bathroom at $2.50.  Astronaut (talk) 10:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm still surprised people steal anything from hotel rooms. I mean, they've got your name and address at reception. Why would anyone seriously expect to get away with it? - Mgm|(talk) 11:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not just your name and address...also your credit-card number. SteveBaker (talk) 19:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In fact, some hotels I've stayed at have signs up to let you know that missing towels will go on your credit card. APL (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Never having stolen a towel from a hotel, I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I've always thought of that as a kind of an empty threat. What if the person restocking the towels just didn't bring enough? Do they document the number of towels in the room before and after my stay? Most hotels flat out refuse to be responsible for things I leave in the room during the day, but they'll still guarantee that one of the staff didn't take or misplace a towel or bring one too few?
 * I mean, if they charge me for a towel afterwards and I make a stink of it, it's their word against mine. (And you know I'm not going to be signing for a towel when I check out, as the room won't be cleaned at that point.) If they can't even prove that the stolen towel was there in the first place, how on Earth could they ever get paid? Moreover, they can't even be sure that it's not just a case of delivering one towel too few. Do they really want to piss off a guest when they can't even be sure it's not their own mistake? Or do they just include the occasional missing towel in their overhead, jack up the average room price by a dollar or euro or whatever to cover for it, and then post a couple of cheap signs to discourage people and let it go, unless the theft is really obvious?
 * My money's on the latter. Maybe some hotels really are zealous about this kind of thing, but I'm pretty sure those are going to be rare exceptions. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 12:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My experience here in Australia, as well as in China has been similar to Astronaut's. Places I've stayed in had a list of things that should be in there when you get there and you need to check that they're there, because if they're not there when you leave, then you are liable for the cost. This applies most to the cheaper places. More expensive places didn't have that, but rather had the linen, towels, etc. for sale in reception. Toiletries, I think are expected to be used (the little bottles of shampoo, soap, etc.) so they would be not noticed. As to finding out how widespread the theft is, Google is probably best, or a friend who runs a hotel, if you have one. Steewi (talk) 00:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Identify this ditched aircraft
Can anyone identify this ditched aircraft that I found while Googling Garuda Indonesia Flight 421:

Picture 1 Picture 2

The linking page is here, but is not helpful. It's not Garuda Indonesia livery of today, and I can't identify the livery. It doesn't seem to match the descriptions in any of the commercial aircraft ditchings in the nice new "Commercial Ditchings" category template. The picture name has "B707" in the title. Any help? Thanks - Tempshill (talk) 23:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The plane in question is a Boeing 707 operated by an Arabian cargo operator which crashed into a lake in Tanzania in 2000. I found a brief article about the crash here, which also additional pictures. 87.112.26.250 (talk) 00:17, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * And this search might help, if you;re thinking about an article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:45, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Excellent. Thank you! Tempshill (talk) 00:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)