Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 June 14

= June 14 =

More help with making our flag thingy please...
The project here is that my sister has an adoptive Inuit child, Mom and I want to make a growth chart for him, styled on the flag of Nunavut shown here. This will be half a 4x8 sheet of plywood as the base, and the inukshuk itself and the star as separately cut pieces mounted - and the whole thing gets painted in the right colours. Mom has now accepted that saving 8 dollars by using spray paint is a seriously bad idea (except for the blue star, we've already tested using that can of paint, and it's small enough to saturate the whole piece). We've put on primer to satisfy the incredibly slurpy G1S sanded plywood, now we need to get the right paint mixes. The hardware store can't use RGB values for colour, but they can take a scan and mix the right colour of paint. Here are the current questions: This project is meant to be something that stays relevant for the next 20 years or so, that the lad can look at every single day to remind him of his growth in the world and the nature of his heritage as a descendant of a truly awesome people, so it's rather important to get it as right as possible. Any help/advice is appreciated! (And thanks for the earlier comments on using a jigsaw, it all turned out to be nothing that some 100-grit, followed by 240-grit, sandpaper wouldn't fix. :) Franamax (talk) 01:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What exact colour (or near-enough exact) do we want? Looking at this page, the actual colours used are all over the hue circle. I can't find an official Nunavut government spec for the colours, and I really have been looking. Advice or superior research skills on this would be appreciated.
 * Assuming the correct colour-spec can be found, what is the best way to get this made into paint? My current thinking is to send some file or other to the pro print shop three blocks from here that has a colour-matched printer, get it printed on photo paper, then ask Rona to scan it. But should it be on photo paper or plain bond paper? Does it matter if I ask for the print using RGB or HSV or CMYK colour values?
 * Gold (color) might help. Two things to keep in mind: By the time the child can distinguish fine nuances in color the original you are painting now has likely faded or changed hue significantly. By the time the kid can understand the significance of the various colors you may be into him helping with painting the third incarnation. (If my own native heritage can serve as a guide that is well within standard philosophies of what might be called "keeping things for the ages".)71.236.26.74 (talk) 02:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that gold is probably it. Flag of Nunavut has links that lead to descriptions of the color as gold.  The Coat of arms of Nunavut also has a field that is described as gold.  152.16.59.190 (talk) 03:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I really doubt it matters. Flags are rarely carefully colored - if you look at a dozen pictures of the original flag - you'll see a dozen different colors.  But if you find a picture of one that you think is correct - print it out and take it to the paint store - they can match something like that perfectly - even from a small sample. SteveBaker (talk) 04:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's where the whole thing fell apart in the first place. We did print the image and the young lady did scan it at the paint store. But as it turns out, the particular printer has a radically different idea on what ink to spit from the nozzle as compared to the monitor's idea of what pixels to turn on. And I have no idea how either of those compare to what actually flies on the staff. I don't really want to match some arbitrary internet download, I'm wondering now whether I should buy an actual flag and take the colour-shot from that.


 * 71.236, thanks for the valuable perspective, you are completely right. I should have mentioned that I'm a perfectionist. My left arm is still recovering from using a lining bar to sink the piers for the playfort on which the young fellow climbs. The tingling and numbness should be gone within a month or so, but man, that thing could take a meteor strike and he could still go out and play the next day (assuming the molten rock had cooled, but I could just hold him off the ground). My big problem here is what exact colour to start with in the first place. If I could only find a proper heraldic description, I could duplicate it and the paint store could shoot it. As it is, I have no idea what I'm chasing in the first place. Franamax (talk) 05:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you don't think the image on their government website is realistic enough you could try contact them: Culture and Heritage Division Director of Culture and Heritage, Dr. Douglas Stenton, Tel: (867) 975-5524, e-mail:  looks about right.  You might run into some cultural differences with the precise definition of colors, though.  Some concepts don't translate well. Have a look at Color term. If my sources are correct, Inuktitut seems to have separate terms for blue and green (other than e.g. Navajo which lumps them) but the green term (tungoyortok) is derived from the same root as blue (tungortok) and has one suffix in common, any further divisions may not be recognized in the same way. There are two terms for yellow (kayok, koksortok) so you may have more luck getting a precise definition there. Red (aupaluktok) seems to cover the orange spectrum as well. (If you'd like some OR comparison try communicating the difference between 9:15 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. to someone used to thinking in units of sunrise, midday, sunset.  Even if the words are understood, the idea may not register in the same way.) Looking at web examples I'd say go for vibrant colors and you're o.k. the idea is to represent golden sand and blue sea. So just go to Rona's paint chip board and try to find color hues that can symbolize that.  Since the website says the red is in reference to Canada, you'll be o.k. if you use the same red as in that flag. (Image in my mind of little can of paint labeled Canadian flag red :-) Remember it's the idea (perfectly) expressed by the flag that's important, not matching some color code. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 07:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The following descriptions of the correct printing colours for flags, as developed by Flags of the World came from | this site:
 * The standard PMS Pantone colours are: 032, red; 286, blue; 354, green; 109, yellow; 165, orange; and 167, brown. Some frequent variations are: 185, red for 'Old Glory Red' also used in Australia; 280 blue, ditto; 355 green as in the flag of Saudi Arabia, etc. Gold is 116, as in the flag of Europe and of Germany, and silver is 420.
 * Perhaps this will be useful to a paint mixer. // BL \\ (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't rely on a coat of paint to protect the edges of the plywood against water intrusion, which would eventually separate the layers. Seal the cut edges with a two-part epoxy wood filler before painting, and ensure water can't penetrate behind the mounted sections. - KoolerStill (talk) 06:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Manchester Metrolink tram tickets
The Metrolink website says MetroMax off-peak tickets are cheaper from some stations... but cleverly doesn't tell us which ones. Anyone know where, and what the difference in price actually is? 86.166.68.203 (talk) 05:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done a bit of Googling but can't find an answer. Sorry, I think you probably won't get an answer on here as personal knowledge of Metrolink's fares structure is needed. You might get more success from a specialist forum such as railforums.co.uk.--94.196.69.216 (talk) 11:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Smurf drug
My friend told me about a drug called Smurf that makes people who take it think they are 3 inches tall and one guy took it and got hit by a train because he thought he was small enough to crawl under it. Is this true? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 09:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a drug called LSD which can make you think all sorts of things. There is another one called Tamiflu which makes you do things you would never normally consider, so 'Smurf' might be another name for either of those, or others. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 09:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) No, there's no such drug. But LSD often comes in the form of colorful blotters which can have colorful images printed on them, including images of cartoon characters, like the Smurfs. LSD can, among other things, cause your sense of physical proportions to change, so you could get the sensation that you're smaller than you are. The story could have its origins in LSD. But even though LSD alters your perceptions, it doesn't make you delusional. Really, this story has "urban legend" written all over it. (Additionally, getting people who cook up meth their supplies is called "smurfing", but that's got nothing to do with the behavior you describe.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 09:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of a hilarious urban legend/old wives tale that parents used to tell their children that someone once took so much LSD they thought they were an orange/glass of orange juice, and were terrified of going to sleep lest they be drunk or spill. Prokhorovka (talk) 10:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I just want to add that the line between "delusional" and "altered perceptions" can be quite thin while you are on LSD. I have seen people having very bad "trips" who were in the category that I would consider delusional (one fellow thought he had been murdered and that his friends were demons torturing his soul or something equally dream-like). LSD can, though it does not always, give your thoughts the coherency of dreams, which can be problematic. I doubt the three-inches-tall death stories, as there are a million urban legends patterned in such a way, but it can certainly make you think odd things. It is an amazing thing how a few micrograms of the right chemical and your brain's ability to cross-check reality from fantasy just goes out the window. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Was anyone else reminded of Let's Get Small? — I don't think I ever got delusions during my youthful experi-mentation with LSD. I did get impressions that solid things were moving, and while coming down I usually heard an irritating noise like a toy airplane; but never mistook these for reality. —Tamfang (talk) 07:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Smurf is a nickname for methamphetamine. -- Q Chris (talk) 21:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That orange juice story originates (I think) from a group at woodstock who had chill out tents (I would recognize the name but I can't remember it right now) and one of the organizers told a story on a documentary about someone who thought they were a glass of orange juice that would die if they tipped over and spilled. Shadowjams (talk) 08:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)