Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 June 23

= June 23 =

FIFA tiebreakers
In the Confederations Cup, the US just advanced to the semifinals thanks to having scored more goals than Italy because the tiebreaking sequence goes points &rarr; goal difference &rarr; goals scored. But if Italy had lost 4–1 (i.e., both teams had the same number of goals scored), what would have been the next tiebreaker?  howcheng  {chat} 04:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Why not look it up on the Cup's website?86.211.237.136 (talk) 10:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)DT
 * I might be mistaken, but if Italy had lost 4-1, I think the goal difference would have been the tie-breaker. However, in a notional example where points, goal difference and goals scored are the same, the usual procedure in FIFA competitions is to go on the basis of games played between the two tied sides, in the same sequence, results, goal difference, goals scored. If they still can't be separated, I think it's still decided on the toss of a coin. Can anyone confirm? I'll ask the Football WikiProject --Dweller (talk) 10:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * refer 2009_FIFA_Confederations_Cup, it is referenced (article 23.6 in referenced document).-- Club Oranje T 11:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Guitar tuning
So I was inadvertently detuning my guitar the other day (long story), and ended up with the following: EADGAE. It seems like it should be some sort of actual tuning, but I didn't see anything on the article, nor could we figure out exactly what it would be. Any ideas? It's quite easy to get to (the fifth string is tuned to the second fret of the fourth string instead of the fourth fret... Full step down) and has an interesting sound, but not even the great Google enlightened me. --75.216.124.177 (talk) 08:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Google suggests it is a folk-y tuning, sometimes used by Ani DiFranco and the Indigo Girls. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 10:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

mythbusters gunpowder shotgun shell amount
Hi guys

in mythbusters they attach a cannonball to a chain and then to a 190 pound mannequin, and the launch the ball from a cannon, he is moved 6 feet. They say to acheive this they used 2 shotgun shells full of black powder. Does anyone know how much this would be in grams. because I have no estimation of how much black powder generally weighs, it could be anything upto 90g or as low as 20g. Does anyone know, or have an estimate as to how much powder this would be in grams, pehaps maybe someone has an empty shell some powder and a set of scales?

Thank you very much

Rob


 * I should note that the Mythbusters explicitly state that you should NOT attempt these experiments at home. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 13:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Our article on the [MythBusters] clearly explains their policy of not giving the details of bombs, chemicals, explosives and other dangerous items used in the show, specifically to make it impossible to reproduce their experiments. They themselves are highly trained, and take a lot of precautions. The episode you are referring to was episode 123, testing the myth that a prisoner once escaped by being shot from a cannon, using the ball of his ball and chain as the cannon ball. The myth was thoroughly busted, with the mannequin losing its legs. - KoolerStill (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to be picky, but I think you meant to wikify Mythbusters. Freedomlinux (talk) 03:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, just that the prisoner would have to be prepared to lose his legs to gain his freedom! Prokhorovka (talk) 20:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Except that in the demonstration, the leg was ripped right off the dummy and went flying over the wall -- so in effect the prisoner would be dead, which I suppose you could define as freedom of a certain sort. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 21:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose you could say the prisoner was "foot loose" after the escape attempt. Edison (talk)


 * That would leave quite a "leg"acy at the prison. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Pull the other one. . . DOR (HK) (talk) 04:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Greatest loss of human life in a single day
What single catasthropic event saw the greatest loss of human life.
 * It probably depends how you define a "single catastrophic event". Would a battle count?  About 70,000 people were said to have been killed immediately when Hiroshima was bombed.  More were probably killed during single Firebombing raids, but I'm not sure if they would fall into your single event criteria.  TastyCakes (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, here is a list of natural disasters by death toll. Some are not immediate.  TastyCakes (talk) 15:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And here is a List of battles and other violent events by death toll. TastyCakes (talk) 15:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

A "catastrophic event" is an "act of God". Warfare is an act of man. Apples and bananas. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (Further edit conflicts...) I think it's not unreasonable to describe wars and battles as catastrophes. What's your source for formally defining 'catastrophe' as equivalent to the legal term 'act of God'?
 * In any case, it seems from the site's own articles that the single deadliest one-off event was the 1556 Shaanxi earthquake. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * (After edit conflict) As TastyCakes says, see the top ten list at list of natural disasters by death toll. If you exclude the top two events because they were floods that happened over a period of time, not on a single day, you get to 1556 Shaanxi earthquake which killed 830,000 people according to some estimates. After that you have 1970 Bhola cyclone with an estimated 500,000 fatalities. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Which goes to show that man's alleged ability to destroy himself pales next to the power of nature. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Although I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could give it a run for its money ;) TastyCakes (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. A 10 MT H-bomb in New York, Moscow, London, or any other very urban, dense city would produce death tolls in the millions within seconds. --140.247.42.218 (talk) 18:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even though it spanned several years, would the black death be a single event? That resulted in Megadeaths.  65.121.141.34 (talk) 16:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true, and it would be even more startling if you compare deaths as a percent of total population due to an event. TastyCakes (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you start adding up all the deaths from WWII it makes a pretty good dent in the human population, but it still pales compared to the black death, which killed like a third of Europe. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 16:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Spanish Flu killed a very large number of people in a fairly short period of time. Probably more than black death (although I haven't looked up the figures, I'm guessing based on the massive growth in population between the two). --Tango (talk) 19:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

There's a good change the 1976 Tangshan earthquake actually killed more people than the Shaanxi earthquake, making it the deadliest day in human history. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 17:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's worth noting that as large as these numbers are - a quick 'back of envelope' calculation suggests that about a half a million people die every day from "non-catastrophic" reasons...which puts "ordinary living" right up there in the top ten...except that it happens every day and not just when some volcano does it's thing. SteveBaker (talk) 19:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But that means the earthquake day was twice as deadly as usual! ;) TastyCakes (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Catastrophe, by definition, is not "ordinary". Obviously millions are born and millions die routinely every day. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 20:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Are these earthquakes not all disqualified since the death isn't all on one day. Some of it is caused by being crushed, but many are people dying of starvation in the rubble. If we pull people out alive 5 days after, it is logical to assume some people die between the earthquake and the body being found.
 * Maybe the user who posed the question could clarify the question a bit. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 21:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

This same question was answered at the Science desk in February. See Reference desk/Archives/Science/2009 February 1. My calculation there was for about 160,000 "non-catastrophic" deaths per day.- gadfium 00:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The deadliest recent disaster would have been the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake. Something on the order of 200,000 people died that day.  Be glad you live where you live.  Weepy.Moyer (talk) 01:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There was the mythical Atlantis that could have been a far greater disaster, but it is only mythical. The Mongols liked to execute everyone in a city when it captured them.  Did they capture any cities that would have been larger then 500,000 or so?  65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This face :(
I have a really serious problem and I don't know where to turn to. I have faith that Refdesk Wikipedians must have some words of advice or direction for me. Btw, I am a decently prolific wikipedia contributor but hiding behind an IP for now. Anyway here goes my question:

I have a face which immidiately gives away my emotions. Make no mistake - I am a very emotionally mature person, and never let emotions inflence me into making impulsive decisions. I have handled tough situations in life with great composure. However, my face gives away what I am feeling immediately, and this leads to problems, especially in my professional life. I have people routinely coming to me and saying: why were you so upset, why were you so pissed, why are you so sad, you really are in a good mood, etc. etc. Close friends have told me that whatever I am thinking shows up on my face. To repeat, this leads to problems in my professional life. The immediate trigger was today when while attending a class (I am attending B-school now) the professor made some unjustified & unkind remarks at me - I just shut up and gritted my teeth, thinking I had done the right thing. But afterwards everybody came to me and asked why I reacted that way. I didn't know what "reaction" they were talking about, but they said I looked like I was going to punch the professor in the face any minute. Needless to say, [this presents me as an emotionally immature person which I am not. Is there any training or therapy which can help me get over this? Or any other solutions or tips? Thanks very much for patiently listening. --220.225.87.66 (talk) 16:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I am a 27 year old male. --220.225.87.66 (talk) 16:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well if you know about the problem and still can't force yourself to stop giving yourself away, I'm not sure how useful our suggestions will be. All I would say is that maybe you should try to control your emotions on the inside as well as what shows.  For example, I sometimes get very irate when I'm driving, and I'm sure it shows to other drivers looking in my windows.  If I manage to put myself in the mind set of "whatever, I'm just doing this to get from A to B and that's going to happen sooner or later however annoyed I get", I am much calmer inside and, consequently, probably look pretty placid to other drivers as well.  I would say your problem isn't too bad, however.  Some people would consider it a positive attribute to have "an honest face".  TastyCakes (talk) 17:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actors are able to convey many emotions that they may not necessarily be feeling. I suspect they practice in front of a mirror. The questioner might try the same thing - to "learn" how to look the way he would like to present himself. Of course, there are times when it's appropriate to show emotions. But if showing emotions can get you in trouble, then some discipline is needed. "Never let 'em see you sweat." Nor get angry (unless you want them to see you angry). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Can I suggest this might not be as big a problem as you think it is? Per an recent article in the New York Times on blushing, it suggests that though people who feel like they give too much away are doing themselves harm, most people in fact see such things as being a sign of unusual honesty. --140.247.42.218 (talk) 18:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Couldn't you ask a doctor? It sounds like a psychological (thus, medical) issue to me...There are doubtless professionals out there who can help you, and a GP would be the only person I could think of off the top of my head that might know them. Of course, I could be wrong. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure having an expressive face is a medical issue, or even a psychological one. The only psychological issue I see is worrying about it too much. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Our article poker face is a disambig page that doesn't actually link to any article describing a poker face, but that's what you seem to be wanting. Perhaps you should in fact start playing a lot of poker (preferably for no stakes or for tiny stakes), in order to practice hiding your feelings.  Tempshill (talk) 21:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You don't get a poker face from playing poker. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not automatically, but perfect place to practice. Tempshill (talk) 03:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would that be? So you can lose money while getting no better results? So you can complicate the entire endeavor by introducing gameplay and strategy into it? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do you suppose it's called a poker face? Surges of emotion, desperation when the flop doesn't pan out, the thrill of a secret AA that's going to trounce all opponents but you have to hold it in so they don't all fold ... it seems to me like a good training ground.  Tempshill (talk) 03:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Try acting classes, especially mime, to learn awareness of what your face is showing to others. Then practice an expressionless face, to use as your first response to any emotion, to give yourself time to consider whether you should show it or not. As a last resort, you might consider Botox.- KoolerStill (talk) 12:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I note that you're a man. Luxuriant facial hair can help disguise some emotions. And anyone can wear sunglasses. Just don't wear them indoors, because then you look like one of the Blues Brothers. --Dweller (talk) 12:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all your suggestions, folks, I'll consider them all. I am also considering going to a therapist to rule out anxiety or something of that sort. Thanks again --115.118.194.18 (talk) 12:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Cotonou, Benin
Is there a travel Agency that can tell me how much Basic Travel Allowance (in U.S. dollars ) ,is needed to travel from Cotonou,Benin To  Las Vegas ,U.S. (ONE -Way),before I book the flight ? EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED Thankyou ,Gary Territo 6/23/2009
 * Please don't add your email address - we don't reply by email anyway - your answers will appear right here.SteveBaker (talk) 19:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Planning to get rich playing poker, eh? Bring lots of money.  I usually book flights through orbitz.com, but I don't know whether they can handle Benin. PhGustaf (talk) 17:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Orbitz and Expedia cannot handle the COO IATA airport code, but the Air France website does. I asked about a round trip from Las Vegas to Cotonou and got a round trip fare including taxes of US$3,233.01.  The fare may differ since you're starting the trip from Cotonou.  Enjoy your 53.5 hours of flying.  Tempshill (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Q: How can you leave Vegas with a small fortune? A: Go there with a big fortune. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They're not kidding when they say it $tay$ in Vega$. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you asking how much flights etc. will cost from Cotonou to Las Vegas? Or has someone told you that they need a certain amount of money to fly from Benin, perhaps as some kind of airport fee? If so, this specific phrase appears to be a very common scam related to 419 scams. Please be very careful about giving money to people you don't know. -- Kateshort forbob  14:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes - certainly, someone convinces you that they are some enticing young lady who just wants to nothing more than to drop her knickers for you if only you'll pay her airfare...it's an obvious scam. Don't pay a cent - don't mention credit card numbers, bank details or any other personal information.  Trust me...it's a trick. SteveBaker (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

another code
ACYD TASE HALJ BSNG ITIM UDFP DFHT CADR DMOB MTSD TCPO VWRE ACNG CBRT MPOJ FGTD XSRW TYNM XYDB BJHI RMTP DFMJ JLAA METR YZGD MPTB POUI PETL LMHD APKK RAWP HOOH ABYD XASD ALFF JLHX IJYK HCRD ACRI OQDL XBGT HJIG UVNH ZRTS JPVQ PSGT RASP YZOZ NQMP WYLQ PTMT BANM.

VWDM HLOO JGTW TEBP RTIB WZXD TREW UWSS ARYS MNIT JENN YZQQ FHCF NTYH QPNG KAWN AZHH BWQG CDVH IWTG FADO ACSF CGYI JBIU JPFM WYOK ARGO WXWX RADF AFLA BJMD ZOOP AHHA KEYN FJJF OSDD WAPL OTHY OXOX TUBD DJOO ZXDE BTJV ARMI BKRT KAHN PRYG PSYT ZWGP BZIH ATGD ATIB TZUF LFGT ANND.

BDDB BKYD ATOM IMHI EATH TROP AFLA EKDA JMZA WSEP PQCD PEVT KPPK CJPA LPWI QEBX PTVQ LTDO SWPQ ZMLU SQSH AXXI OTTT AOWD KBVE BQZI GZWG ARRB XRTZ EPLH RWPV WYFM PTYK FADI SUMD MJUF FELN JPII KLHG DJZF STUX IEBV SYYN HIHI FETT HIXI AFZV CASM GSXY HPOW LETC PSIN SUHH MEZL FGYN GXLG WAHL XYDD RUXW QRUQ IXSD PJUT VYOK CALB ORUT APQK DSHI SZYC TCLK ZEKV RWLW RTGS AMJL NPNN FDTB.

So far, my only clue is 5^6, and that sentences end with "." I suspect that given the length of the code, each 4 letter group represents a cleartext letter. Any ideas on this one? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, since almost none of the quartets repeat, either it's so large an alphabet (with punctuation, symbols, different cases, multiple choices for each letter, etc.) that this is too small a sample to decypher, or it's not a simple substitution cypher, but something requiring manipulation (e.g. shifting over one letter every group). There are so many possible rules (e.g. increase first letter by 5, decrease second letter by 17, etc.) that mere inspection won't solve this. You might want to look at letters repeated within a group, and estimate whether the number of overall repetitions falls outside the range you'd expect in a purely random set of letters. The breaks between four-letter groups are also very likely be purely arbitrary (to hamper unauthorized solution), in which case you have to decide where repeated words are starting and ending. H, I, X, and T look as if they might reward further attention. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, well you've got a 52, 55, and 75 quartet series (quick count), which sounds completely possible for the number of letters in 3 sentences (though of course, the spaces might be there just to throw you off), so I agree that the quartets likely point to a letter, though you might need to work a little more. Just a guess but 5^6 (= 15625) might be a hint as to what you're supposed to do with the quartets to make them into single digits. One thing I notice right away is that the letters do seem to be randomly arranged; there are few repetitions, and more than anything their position in the alphabet seems to average right around the middle. None of them come close to AAAA or ZZZZ, which suggests a normal distribution for a random sequence. I can't think of anything else, does 5^6 mean anything to you? 124.154.253.146 (talk) 07:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there any of the 26 letters that is not repeated? Or are there two that are repeated far less often than any others (so that they could substitute for each other, as in I=J or U=V ?) If either is true, this might very well be a variant of the Playfair cipher, where 25 letters are set out in a 5 x 5 grid, and a pair of letters is indicated by the letters on the opposite diagonal (e.g. AZ = EV). The cipher itself was usually not hidden that carefully because what was needed was the key that scrambled the grid, e.g. SLIGHT displacing ABCDEF at the top of the grid. Note the doubles within some of the quartets such as HIHI, WXWX and OXOX, which might correspond to double letters. —— Shakescene (talk) 09:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Every letter is repeated. The only 4-letter grouping which is repeated is "AFLA". In terms of frequencies: [('T',53),('A',49),('D',43),('P',41),('H',34), ('I',31),('B',29),('O',29),('R',29),('S',29),('W',29),('M',28),('F',27),('L',27),('Y',27), ('G',25),('J',25),('N',23),('E',22),('X',22),('Z',22), ('K',19),('C',18),('Q',17),('U',16),('V',14)].
 * Angus Lepper(T, C) 16:39, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting that the often-interchangeable U and V together have a combined frequency (16+14) of 30, which is less than half that of the most frequent letters. That proves absolutely nothing since the distribution at first blush looks pretty normal, but it's possible that two of the 8 or 9 least-frequent letters occupy the same spot on a Playfair type of grid (possibly indicating that they stand for I & J or a similar pair). The Playfair cipher article mentions that German forces used a double-Playfair cipher in the field during World War II, where the second letter of a pair would be drawn from a separate table. That might fit with the groups of four in the code above, two letters indicating the first letter of a plaintext pair, and the two other letters the second plaintext letter. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

ACYD TASE HALJ BSNG ITIM UDFP DFHT/ CADR DMOB MTSD/ TCPO VWRE ACNG CBRT MPOJ/ FGTD XSRW TYNM XYDB BJHI/ RMTP DFMJ JLAA METR YZGD/ MPTB POUI PETL LMHD/ APKK RAWP HOOH ABYD/ XASD ALFF JLHX/ IJYK HCRD ACRI OQDL XBGT HJIG UVNH ZRTS JPVQ PSGT RASP YZOZ/ NQMP WYLQ PTMT BANM/.

VWDM HLOO/ JGTW TEBP RTIB WZXD/ TREW UWSS ARYS MNIT/ JENN YZQQ/ FHCF NTYH QPNG KAWN AZHH BWQG CDVH IWTG FADO ACSF CGYI/ JBIU JPFM WYOK ARGO/ WXWX RADF AFLA BJMD ZOOP AHHA KEYN FJJF OSDD WAPL OTHY/ OXOX TUBD/ DJOO ZXDE BTJV ARMI BKRT KAHN PRYG PSYT ZWGP BZIH ATGD ATIB TZUF LFGT ANND/.

BDDB BKYD/ ATOM IMHI/ EATH TROP AFLA/ EKDA JMZA WSEP PQCD PEVT KPPK CJPA LPWI QEBX PTVQ LTDO SWPQ/ ZMLU SQSH AXXI OTTT AOWD KBVE BQZI GZWG ARRB XRTZ EPLH RWPV/ WYFM PTYK FADI SUMD/ MJUF FELN JPII KLHG DJZF/ STUX IEBV SYYN HIHI FETT HIXI AFZV CASM GSXY HPOW LETC PSIN SUHH/ MEZL FGYN GXLG/ WAHL XYDD RUXW QRUQ/ IXSD PJUT VYOK CALB ORUT APQK DSHI/ SZYC TCLK ZEKV RWLW/ RTGS AMJL NPNN FDTB/.

Words are now separated by slashes. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)