Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 September 14

= September 14 =

Bat infestation
we have a guava tree in our backyard which is often attacked by bats for its fruits,the problem is that theses bats mess up our wells too. How do we stop this ?( We are also not able to use those fruits either) sumal (talk) 03:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * How about hanging mousetraps?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 03:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In the Philippines I observed local farmers protecting hanging fruit by wrapping each unit in a burlap sack. You might try something similar. I'm not sure if plastic bags would work or not - being airtight might be bad for the development of the fruit. Protect all (or most) of the fruit and the bat food supply is gone. No bat food supply, no more bats. Personally though, bats are awesome. Hard to imagine them fouling a well?!?218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The bats are not attacking your tree they are seeking a legitimate supply of food that you are providing. If you are going to grow bat-food then you need to protect it and not harm the bats. Nets, burlap, or other protective measures are available to you. Have you thought of covering your wells with something to prevent the bat excrement from falling in. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 06:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * On a related note, please don't harm the bats; they eat cockroaches and other pests!--Leon (talk) 08:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I doubt if the same species eats both fruit and insects. StuRat (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Bats are a varied group of animals ranging from the small bats that eat moths and mosquitos which are common in the US, to giant raven sized fruit bats in SE Asia and Australia. I suspect that the OP might be having difficulty with the latter.  Googlemeister (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The actual problem is pollution of the OP's well. It is unclear how bats are messing wells but that may have more to do with them living in caves associated with the ground water supply than attraction to a particular fruit tree. The OP is in India where access to fresh water is not universal. Solving that problem may be more than Wikipedia can do. The article Water resources describes the situation. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no expertise on this but have been studying gardening for some time (although in my part of the world we don't have fruit bats). There are two main ways to keep the bats from eating the fruit.  1) Wrap the tree with a covering that keeps the bats out but that allows sunshine, air, and water to get through.   The best solution is probably wire mesh, though this could be expensive.  On the other hand, it should last for several years.  A burlap mesh might be another solution, but I suspect that the bats cold chew through burlap and that it would not last more than one year, especially after a monsoon.  2) Apply chemicals to the tree or keep containers of chemicals around the tree that are not harmful to people but that deter bats.  This article suggests that ethanol might work.  You could try other chemicals that have a rotten smell.  It is probably best to combine this with a wire mesh or other enclosure for the tree to prevent the bats from putting up with the smell, trying a bit of fruit, and learning that the fruit is good despite the smell.  As for the well, you need to have it cleaned.  There must be people in your area who clean wells.  The next step is to cover it so that bats cannot enter it.  A hard metal or stone covering would probably be best.   Remove the covering only when you want to collect water.  If your well is actually a cistern that collects rainfall, then you need a strong metal grate or screen that lets water in but whose openings are too small for bats to pass through.  Marco polo (talk) 19:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * One more thought on this. After you have the well cleaned and cover the opening to keep bats out, I would recommend that you avoid using the water for drinking for at least a few months.  However, I would draw water from the well during that time and use it for cleaning or for watering plants.  Drawing water from the well and letting it refill with clean groundwater will help to improve the water quality over a period of months.  I recommend having the water tested in a laboratory before you use it for drinking.  Even then, you may need to boil it or use solar water disinfection first.  Marco polo (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

MDF and hardboard
What are the essential differences between MDF and hardboard. I mean is hardboard safer to work with?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 16:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The articles do a decent job of explaining the difference. I'm not sure what 'safer' would be? It will depend on what you are using the wood for as to whether it needs to be a 'medium' (MDF) density or a high (Hardboard) density. ny156uk (talk) 16:39, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Neither are safer, but MDF is generally more visually appealing in situations where the side of the board may show. Additionally, it is more common to find a variety of finishes and veneers on MDF.  Depending on your local market, there may be a price consideration when deciding between the twoCaltsar (talk) 16:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * well the MDF page mentions hazards from the glue used. The hardboard page does not mention hazards from glue or dust. Should it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Its ok. just seen that no glue is used in hb, maybe only a bit of resin So its safer IMO--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose that there could be hazards from working with MDF, but those hazards don't seem to have much, if any, solid proof behind them. (The woodshop I worked for used polyurethane MDF which doesn't have formeldahyde in it) On the other hand, many other materials and chemicals used in wood working can be quite hazardous.  Many solvents used in finishing sprays are present in much higher concentrations and many small wood shops don't have the room (or money) for a large, properly designed spray booth to contain those chemicals.  Also, there are some natural hardwoods that have known health hazards when cut, sanded, or otherwise used in a way that creates large amounts of dust.  When referring to the safety of the material, I was implying that the psysical properties of the material didn't cause it to be more or less safe when cutting, sanding, or working with the material as psysical injury is the most common method of harm in a woodshop.Caltsar (talk) 18:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bending hardboard
I have an application where I need to make hardboard cylinders. What is the bast way to form the hb into a cylinder. Do I need to wet it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that hardboard becomes more pliable when it is heated in a steam oven and that it will keep its bend when it cools. The water in the oven keeps the temperature from rising high enough to burn the hardboard. I would not advise soaking the hardboard first because that will slow down the heat penetration. I can't quantify to how small a radius you can bend how thick a board this way, so that needs experiment. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I dont have a steam oven handy so would I be able to do it with a hot air gun instead? And should I wet the hb to create stem with the heat gun?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 00:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There are books devoted to wood bending, and your library may have one. Bending wood into a cylinder can be very hard to do, and certain woods and composites can only bend to a certain radius.  Some woods can be bent over a form using clamps and time while others need to use steam and pressure. I don't really work with hardboard at all outside of pegboard, so I do not know how much it can be bent.Caltsar (talk) 18:51, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You can buy hardboard pre sawn with groves on the reverse to aid bending.--88.109.132.126 (talk) 23:26, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that was the Bendy MDF (which I have used). Not seen pregrooved hardboard. Whats its tradename?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 23:37, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

d't know--88.109.132.126 (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I once discussed the bending of wood with a professional who made rakes and other bentwood items. He steamed the wood in a metal container large enough to hold it. A heatgun and dry heat would seem useless for the purpose. He said that he "overbent" the object to allow for it to spring back a bit. With grooves cut on the unseen side as 79.75.88.222 described, the heating seems unnecessary, but you do not wind up with full thickness wood. Greenwood should work better than kiln dried lumber company wood. You can form cylinders, chairs, and other shapes bu making a form and laminating thin sheets of hardwood, so that each sheet is thin and easy to bend, and when the glue sets, the assembled wood is like custom plywood in the shape you want, I would try that. See, , , , . Edison (talk) 04:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Tracing vehicle ownership in Northern Cyprus
How do I find the owner of a vehicle in Northern Cyprus by it's registration plate. Thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepapooh (talk • contribs) 18:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You could contact the Northern Cyprus Ministry of Public Works and Communications, listed here, though you might need to be able to communicate in Turkish. Marco polo (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Ella Cullom
i am doing a family tree, however my great grandmother Ella Cullom(married name in 1910 US census) was raped at an early age(abt 14yrs old)That produced my grandmother Lilly Cullom, in Tenn. Ella, was born abt 1871, i think in Tenn., her mothers name was Sarah the family told me that the guy that raped my great grandmother my have been a doctor that she may have been working for.I am at a lost for trying to find supporting info. Can you offer any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I am new at this I forgot to include my email for an answer about my gradmother lilly cullom and greatgrandmother ella cullom, her mother sarah. email add. [email address removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I've removed your email address, per the guidelines at the top of this page. People will respond on this page if they have any information. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 22:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If the rapist acknowledged paternity, he may be on the birth certificate, which should be available for that period. It's a long shot, but worth checking into.  If the rapist was prosecuted, there should be a court record, though that may be difficult to track down, and there probably would be newspaper reports too.  Short of those possibilities, you're probably limited to working with family records such as letters and diaries.  John M Baker (talk) 04:40, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Considering the era, I think it would be highly unlikely that the rapist was prosecuted, or that it would be reported in a newspaper. Matt Deres (talk) 12:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hopefully the birth certificate says where Lilly Cullom was born, and that should be pretty close to where her mother was working. Perhaps there were doctor registration records available, or the doctor could be recorded by occupation on the census. May be there were advertisements or the county may have had records on the use of premises. You should be able to narrow down the possibilities. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Birth certificates may not exist - they are a fairly modern document. Tennessee birth records only go back to 1908 and the state only has copies from 1914 (older ones are county documents) Some large cities have older birth records though. See [] 75.41.110.200 (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ancestry.com (subscription) is your best bet. They have the 1910 census, showing Ella Cullom, described as "mulatto," age 39 in the 1910 census, Civil District 6, Overton Tennessee, married to "Mack (black, age 61)" with Lilly (24), 6 younger Culloms, and 6 children from the Woods and Alred families. It says Lilly was born in Tennessee. It says Ella and Lilly worked as laundresses, and Mack was a farmer. The 1920 census for the same place has similar info, but does not show Lilly, though it shows 4 Cullom children and the husband's parents, age 85 and 80. So find Ella with a different last name, somewhere around 1876, to learn more about Lilly's origin. Ella should be somewhere in the  1880 census. In the rural south, people were not that mobile, and the people in the next farm were often relatives, so Ella might have been a neighbor's child. If it had been Ella's parents living with them in 1920, the search would be easier. Edison (talk) 14:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Going back to the 1880 census for Tennessee, I searched for "Ella," black, born about 1871 with mother "Sarah" and found several possibilities, but none in Overton with the right age, so you could search and branch out:  Ella Bell,  Shelby TN born about 1871 parents Looet and Sarah Bell, but this is 300 miles from Overton. There is also Ella Cannon, born about 1871, parents Jack and Sarah, in  Shelby TN (also 300 miles away). There is Ella Moore, born about 1871, parents Pleas and Sarah, in  Marshall, Tennessee (150 miles away). There is Ella Frierson, (age 10) parents James and Sarah, in  Davidson TN (100 miles away). There is Ella Futrell (age 8) parents Shad and Sarah in Madison, TN (100 miles away). There is Ella Wilson, age 8, mother Sarah, in Knoxville, TN (120 miles away). Lots more as the age match becomes less exact (info in censuses such as age was often put down incorrectly, since the census taker might have just asked a neighbor or made it up just to complete his route). Edison (talk) 15:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The Mormons might be a place to look also. They don't just gather data about Mormons, but about everyone, presumably for the benefit of converts. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 03:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)